I realized that I am very spoiled by the EVE API system and take information for granted. If I want to make any project, I must be perfectly informed how guild management works, what information is available about the members, what benefits guilds offer at the cost of what drawbacks. The contract system seems complicated and pointless enough.
Ergo, I must start a guild before I have a project in mind, just to be able to determine what kind of projects are possible. For example I couldn't evaluate Goon kills in EVE if the killboard data wasn't available. To have a guild, I must have members. Which is a completely vicious circle.
The only way out is to ask for volunteers to participate with no project in sight. The guild will indeed be a dreaded social guild with no point to exist. I cannot promise that a project will be formed. If a project is formed, the members won't have advantages over those who joined later. So there is absolutely no point joining, that's why I ask for volunteers.
To make it worse, you must be playing on EU Jordine, which is nasty as only 20.5% of my visits came from Europe. And of course I just started BDO, so most of my visitors are from WoW or EVE.
Anyway, if you are in Europe and playing BDO and have time to waste on my guild testing, please comment. If enough people volunteer, I start the guild. If not, oh well, I seek something else around the money making front.
Ergo, I must start a guild before I have a project in mind, just to be able to determine what kind of projects are possible. For example I couldn't evaluate Goon kills in EVE if the killboard data wasn't available. To have a guild, I must have members. Which is a completely vicious circle.
The only way out is to ask for volunteers to participate with no project in sight. The guild will indeed be a dreaded social guild with no point to exist. I cannot promise that a project will be formed. If a project is formed, the members won't have advantages over those who joined later. So there is absolutely no point joining, that's why I ask for volunteers.
To make it worse, you must be playing on EU Jordine, which is nasty as only 20.5% of my visits came from Europe. And of course I just started BDO, so most of my visitors are from WoW or EVE.
Anyway, if you are in Europe and playing BDO and have time to waste on my guild testing, please comment. If enough people volunteer, I start the guild. If not, oh well, I seek something else around the money making front.
17 comments:
You could implement your WoW guild rules. IIRC, it wasn't quite, "No talking in guild chat," but it was pretty close -- business only. Is there an Ulduar in blues type of thing you could do in BDO? That was pretty damn impressive in WoW.
I have no idea what I can do in BDO and what not. This is why I need a guild.
Sieges and Guild Wars are the two obvious choices, but the former is 4 hours * 3 days weekly commitment, and the latter has no effect on the world. If you make the richest guild, you'll just be a "nolifer grinder."
I propose a better idea that will show your money-making skills while having a real effect on the world, and is also more flexible than Sieges so you can have lots of members and participation: create a roaming, non-consensual pvp guild. The non-con penalties can be overcome with enough wealth, and if people keep grinding mobs for cash instead of following the principles in your guide, you will overcome their gear replacement rate. You've already shown that you don't need perfect gear to be competitive, so anyone can join your effort, at least at the beginning. The rest of the server will have no choice but to change the way they think about money if they want to stand up to you.
If there are some official means of stat tracking, you can even rank guild members by wealth destroyed vs wealth cost by death.
BDO doesnt really have guild chat.
Wouldn't the goblinish way be that you pay money for those who helps your testing? Eg. if someone joins your guild and stays there for 2 weeks he/she gets some ingame currency.
@Cathfaern: you can't pay money to other players in BDO to prevent RMT
@Anon: non-consensual world PvP is irrelevant as the ganked one is losing nothing, so has zero reason to care about your ganking.
You can't track much in guild window, during war there's just killcount yours vs. theirs, on members you have something like "participation" mostly gained by killing mobs during guild missions, several guild skills...
Another thing is that guild runs on its own money, you can't just finance it (maybe guild leader can pour his money to the guild funds, but I don't think so). You get guild money from guild missions or Guild Imperial Trade.
Btw with the shady buy orders, you could technically transfer money to somebody by finding sold-out item and he putting enormous buy order on it.
@Destabilizator: that's what I was afraid of. Without performance records, it's impossible to keep useless members out of a guild and it necessarily becomes either an M&S hive, or elitist: worshiping a marginal indicator like "only 57+"
You can't transfer wealth via buy orders. The seller only gets the maximum price of the item, the extra gets lost. If you can list an item between 500 and 1000 and your buddy sets a buy order for 100000, you'll get 1000*0.65.
@Gevlon ah, I didn't know about the extra getting lost... nice sink hole (considering eg. Ancient Weapon Core has buyorders over 40m (4x+ the price)
I don't think the "blabla killed bleble" messages output to chatlog when someone from the guild kills or gets killed are saved into a local file so you could parse them.
"guild activity" so far is pve activity (mobs, quests) you get alot of "activity" on guild missions. you can track participation with that.
as other have said in node wars you have a statistic "Conquest status". It is absolutely garbage. I was in on #50+ xlarge guild on the testweek and they highscore jerked each other off on enemy kills without bothering the Node objective.
Also random deaths of guild members only popup as guildwide systems notice. you see if it was pk or mobs. it can't be tracked, I'm still searching for a way to dump chat to textfiles (this grey area of memory probing like evemon and xingcode isn't kind at all).
if it is guild bosses. don't bother. your partner is enough to duo small boss scrolls. with two valkyries 56 118+124 ap (+14 +16 liverto and none enchanted accessories) + buffs mudster went down within the 30min despawn timer after 27min (https://i.imgur.com/cQv6JoU.jpg). Is it worth the chance of MoS/Liverto/Grunil drops? I don't think so. It was just a test with the result you don't need UBER gear or waste your time with others on guild bosses. With 140+140 ap this should be smooth and 100% guaranteed kill even without frenzy elixirs. We didn't try Ferrid yet but expect the same result. sure xlarge boses drop "more" but you stand with 40+ idiots on these for just about the same amount of time. diminishing your chance of loot just the same.
So the two main things gated by "a guild" are of no to little value. sure take Hidel from one of the top #10 guilds and blast trough guild bosses every evening after you won and collected 700m+. I don't know what resource nodes give you, if it is % more resources per worker cycle maybe that is a incentive ... not really.
I had my fill of guilds, will duo the rest of the game. Sadly you are on Jordine .. I'm on Alustin.
@Gevlon
> non-consensual world PvP is irrelevant as the ganked one is losing nothing, so has zero reason to care about your ganking.
"Deaths as a result of PvP incur the potential for Gems to break, but do not incur XP loss." http://www.blackdeserttome.com/wiki/Death-Penalty http://www.blackdeserttome.com/wiki/Gems
A skilled pvper (or not so skilled, but with enough passive income that his own loses are much lower in comparison) directly costs the opponent money, and the potential destruction of gear as they will think "just one more enchantment" would have kept them alive.
Guild funds come solely from the cooperative guild quests (gathering/killing/trade)
Around 2000 pap per guildquest is distributed between participating members based on participation (the "4 grunt" quest hands out 500 pap per caught grunt for example).
5 guild quests max daily to start (if you don't finish it, it is lost)
with 10,000 pap you can renew their contract with double the daily payout (don't have to elevate payout on renewal, you may)
Sadly I'm already in a simple guild ranking up guild skills (extra life and pvp stats)
and testing out how far I can rank up the 'wage'-payout (if I can get it to 32M, I consider it uncapped for now. currently at 500k, so 6 more steps of 10k pap to go)
I play on Jordine and I'm not in a guild, so I can help with the guild test.
You can join our guild and I'll get you on the officer side, free to leave as soon as you have a project.
Guild is rank 70th on the server so we have a good portion of the perks.
Konvict
Jordine
Family name Izzle
Characters
Kainizzle
Kurtizzle
@Kurtizzle: thanks for the offer. I may take on it. Currently I'm fine exploring moneymaking methods and also have a lot on my hands on RL and blogging. I start processes and transports and such but I didn't do a single normal quest or exploring for weeks. When I have more time for "playing" (aka doing something not absolutely necessary to blog), I contact you.
@ Gevlon, yeah ok that sounds good. I've been trying to get in touch with you for a while on BDO as I've followed your blog for a good few years now.
Just to put things in to perspective, this guild was made by a clan community that plays almost every game other than EVE, so that's a bonus for you from the start.
As you've sort of mentioned before on BDO as a topic. If you was to make a guild is it quite hard for it to be anything other than full on hardcore grinding 24/7 freaks or a M&S cesspit.
Well Konvict Gaming had two guilds, one for the casuals/socials/single player campaign game experience and one for the hard core till we die.
The hard core guilds GM burnt out and went off to join grind after a mini awox and mass playergrab, then to keep the guild/clan together they remerged the guild back in to one. It was previously just one guild but the hardcore elite couldn't been seen with the casuals, their elitism knew no bounds.
Anyway long story short...The third GM was off on holiday for two weeks and handed the guild over to a responsible individual. That person organised an on the fly guild vs guild node capture at about 10 minutes notice and rightly so only 14 people turned up, so through the night he individually kicked everyone, stole all the money and left.
DAUM sorted it out, no despite being a rather unpleasant experience, from a guild of 75+ we are now a guild of 11/85.
That's right we're a rank 60-70 guild with 104 guild points and we have 11 out of 85 possible members.
The only thing we really do is talk game related things in guild chat, team up for scrolls and give out some general advice.
If you wanted to do an economy school or anything you like really as a project from within this guild, I can have a chat with the clan community managers and basically get you brought in as an officer so that you can invite members.
@ Gevlon.
I'm working over in the states until the end of the week, so any point on after that you should be able to reliably poke me in game and we can have a chat.
GL HF
Kurt
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