Greedy Goblin

Tuesday, September 2, 2014

Funny people vs 4 fun ppl

There are people around us with high social skills. They are called "funny", "cool", "pretty" or "famous". These people get all kind of stuff for nothing, just because social people love them. They glide trough life without effort despite being fundamentally useless. You know of Kim Kardashian and Paris Hilton, right?

Is it fair? No, but life isn't, just ask a guy whose parents were killed by a drunken driver. However, this group is pretty small. There is one prom queen and one king every school year. The number of celebrities is below the Dunbar number for each nation or ethnic group. As the amount of very rich people is low, the amount of trophy wifes, mistresses and other followers is also low. Most of us has to get above the welfare level by working. Seriously, imagine that you go home and announce that from now on, you won't earn money, nor you'll do housework and your spouse or partner should support you because you are lovely and fun. How much time would it take for you to live all alone? A week?

We get our money from work and do unpaid work to support ourselves and our family. That's the way and we accepted it. We don't expect people to support us just because we are awesome and millions "like" our Facebook page and buy advertised crap just because we were advertising it. We aren't Kim Kardashian and will never be. Most of us don't really want to be either.

But for some weird reason, large group of people aim for this "Kim Kardashian life" in games. They join gaming communities and expect strangers to carry them inside the game, just because they are funny. They openly refuse to "work" in the game as gatherers or soldiers (the typical in-game jobs), they all want to be socialites and celebrities revered for their funny comments, jokes, socialization.

There are two problems with their plan. The first is that the same limits apply to games as to real life, so the number of celebrity spots are limited. The gaming communities can't afford to upkeep thousands of funny nothingdoers. There are such socialites (think of the cliche "girlfriend of the guildmaster" who gets raid loot for low performance) but - just like in real life - only a few. The raid simply can't carry 50% useless people. Same for EVE doctrine fleets that need (surprise) doctrine ships and can't just operate when everyone is joining in Rifters "4 lulz". Just like in real life, most of us must "work" if he wants to be over the poverty line, as farmer or soldier.

But the main obstacle stopping them from being game-socialites is that they don't have social skills. They aren't funny. Their memes are old. Their jokes are bad or outright offensive. They aren't pretty, nor the pictures they link. Their presence doesn't fill the socials with positive feelings, quite the opposite, it makes them write tickets.

The "4 fun ppl" have this bizarre idea that in the game communities they should be socialites. They should be loved just the way they are, without effort, just like her followers love Kim Kardashian. Despite in real life they are as far from this status as possible, they expect this community to accept them as celebrities.

How can you spot one? Simple. Those who are not them are proud of their "skillz", their abilities to be a good gatherer or soldier. They are proud of their wallet, killboard, achievements and such. They say "invite me because I am a good PvP-er/raider/farmer/have high attendance/whatever". They want to earn their place in a group by contributing. The "4 fun ppl" on the other hand openly reject this "nolifer" attitude, don't even offer any gaming abilities, just their social skills, despite they lack them horribly.

Games offer simpler physics but not simpler social atmosphere. Learning a game is much easier than getting a degree and the game-works are never dirty or dangerous. The purpose of games is to be easier and faster than real life, but that only applies to the material part. Mining in EVE is easier, cleaner and faster than mining in real life. There are always job opportunities too, so we can all work as dragon slayers or spaceship pilots.

On the other hand, game developers have no power over social rules, the very same things are considered funny or pretty in games as in real life. If Kim Kardashian would choose to play a game anonymously, she'd rise into a celebrity status on her own right because she is good in that. A real life basement dweller has no chance for it. Becoming a game-socialite isn't easier than becoming one in real life. If one aspires to just hang out and chat, he could do it in real life with real friends. After failing in that and alienating enough people to earn the "basement dweller" status, for some weird reason they hope to succeed in the same in a game. They obviously fail again, while annoying those who want to play the game.

So the fundamental question to ask from "4 fun ppl" is "why do you expect us to like socializing with you when the people around you in real life don't like to do that"? If he'd lie that "I have lot of real life friends" than just reply "then why don't you socialize with them? That's what friends are for, go and hang out with them and leave us nerds alone to play the game!"


nightgerbil said...

Well I came here to post about, which Im sure you will agree is pretty dam hilarious, honestly I wish I could play eve its such a shitty game but the meta is so MUCH FUN! The comments sections are gold.

Still you didn't, so back to your actual post: I have been saying for the last 15 years IRL that the national lottery and "X-factor" tv show is the new religion. Back in the 12th century we peasents were told to go work 16hrs a day in our fields and tug our forelocks to our lords and in return, in the next world, we could be in paradise.

Now like that dude who invented the assassin cult in the mid east, we are shown paradise: celebrity, its in our magazines on our tvs and all we have to do is give our money for the lottery ticket and enter the X factor auditions. Can you blame the simple for believing? they prayed to imaginary gods for millenia, now they actually do WANT to be Kim...(or swifty?).

Tonight I got denied entry to a garrosh normal pug: he wanted 580 ilev only, I only had 578. I'm in full heroic gear bar one ring and normal mode bracers. Garrosh normal let me inform yr readers is supposed to be done around 540. Its like demanding you turn up with a tengu for a level 2 combat mission. I found this amusing (worthy of a moron of the day), but sharing with my guild I found nobody actually cared. Turns out not many people do care what I type and Im not sure they even read it.

So what are you suggesting for the low social skills, lonely nerd whose just good at pc games? accept we suck and limit all our interaction for here on out with: "578 hunter lf garrosh kill"? that isnt selling me paradise its selling me hell.

Anonymous said...

The '4fun's as you describe them, are the victims in this case. They are the less-than-clever folks who are easily swayed by the smart marketing company. They see million dollar CGI trailers and 'epik pvp pwn lol' videos on YouTube, and believe they will be the 1 hero of the MMO, or the #1 'noob ganker' if they give their money. When they arrive they are met the mundane tasks that all MMOs ask of all new players, but eventually all the mundane tasks are done, at which point they are left to interact with other players.

In previous posts, you acknowledge that the free-to-play players are the content for the pay-to-win players; the same concept applies to a 'paid' MMO in terms of productive players and '4fun ppl'. Productive players organize gangs/guilds/raids/pvp so they can achieve goals (goals stated in-game, personal goals, or the goal of playing for free), and the '4fun ppl' are left to join such activities after paying their dollar to the marketing company and finishing their mundane tasks.

Asking the '4fun ppl'"why do you expect us to like socializing with you when the people around you in real life don't like to do that?" is ludicrous, as they never wanted to be the friend of some internet nerd; they paid the marketing company so that they could be the hero and the noob pwner, not to waste time socializing with the nerdy productive players!

Arrendis said...

You and I don't agree on much, and I don't think me saying that comes as a surprise to you or anyone familiar with our past interactions.

That said, I've found myself agreeing with a lot of your last few posts on this stuff.

Yes, there's people who think that being socially.. omnipresent, shall we say? should merit them special treatment. They want to receive accolades and enthusiastic welcome for being wonderful enough to grace us with their presence.

These are the guys who show up to fleets and have the FCs telling them for ten, fifteen minutes 'guys, this is a battleship fleet, I don't need twenty-five interceptors'. Sure, there's always the new guys who can't fly anything but frigates, but for the most part, these are pilots with 2+ years experience. It's ridiculous.

I know you like to harp on the idea that the CFC isn't a meritocracy, but really, if you want to stand out and get noticed, the way to do it is to do your job, do it well, and do it consistently. Baltec1 didn't get a good reputation flying the wrong ship. He got it because he put in the work to make sure that no matter what fleet it was, his megathron fit the performance profile of the ship he was supposed to be bringing.

Even if you have good social skills, that's only going to go so far if you're not doing the job. You can be a great, hilarious guy, and that might get you a little more leeway, but if you're a constant fuck-up, people remember that, too.

Anonymous said...

all jump all fight or you get kicked. Social is fine, we make exceptions as long as they rise to some level. It does no good to be social and not be logged on. Which defeats one of you premises "activity". See being social gets you grace. What gets person Z kicked won't get you kicked. However the number one rule of being social is well being social. That means being active. That means loggin in. That means doing the things others are doing. I have seen countless times Mr. Funny is kicked cause he doesn't log in and that hurts the corps stats. or "he is a great guy to bad we can't count on him for the next CTA guess he has to go". You might be right mr/mrs social might exist in the gamming community and maybe a few select slots exist for them. But at the end of the day if you are not putting rounds down range well you don't really have a purpose. Funny, cool, smexy, what ever are all sidelines they are grace builders, they are focal points, but they are not the purpose. Who doesn't like a good joke while POS bashing but in order for me to enjoy the joke you have to be logged in and if you are logged in you had better be in a bomberless bomber at the very least. All jump All fight.

Unknown said...

Kim Kardashian serves a very important task in life: to show the world that a woman must not be starved within an inch of dying to be considered pretty.

Every now and then I get to see a few pages in these Glam magazines that my wife loves reading when she can get her hands on one... and consistently the only non-skelington in there is Kim.

Also... I have my doubts that Kim is loved just for the way she is. Like with anything extraordinary, there will be a ton of work going in behind the scenes that the public does not see.

Which is the same reason she would rise as a Celebrity inside EVE - that is, if she put the same focus, attention and actual effort in as she did/does into building her fame in real life.

Now what a lot of people do is busy around making a lot of fuss, violating the wisdom every fleet member in here has seen in action:

Winners focus. Losers spray.

Anonymous said...

I think its quite ominous to see Gevlon talking about this subject (although on his own particular point of view) while, at the same time, there`s an open letter going on from more than 1k devs condemning "hateful and harassing speach" in games (
And almost at the same time all that whole mess with the Depression Quest "game" dev hit the fan (hah!).

Its kinda interesting to see Gevlon defending almost the same points, but on his own particular way. Kudos, I guess.

maxim said...

I am all for open letters against hate speech, but there are tons and tons of nuances to this topic.

Essentially it all comes down to where you draw the line between freedom of speech and responsibility for speech.

What Gevlon is proposing is that - since he can't expect anyone to be responsible for words they say - freedom should be taken away.

I, on the other hand, believe that it is much better to build systems that encourage and teach people to take responsibility, so that we never have to restrict freedoms. And when i say "better" i mean from a financial point of view in the long term.

Gevlon said...

@Maxim: your freedom applies to where you go, not how you behave there. You can go to a bar, a horse race, a boxing game or a cinema. But you can't expect silence in a bar, can't drink on a horse race, can't bat in a boxing game and can't listen to loud music in a cinema. No one sane would consider these rules a violation of their freedom.

Games are places where you play as a dragonslayer or a spaceship pilot and you must act like that. Banning offtopic is rather natural and enhances the experience of everyone else.

maxim said...

That is true if a game is a bar, or a horserace, or whatever else.

What if a game is a realistic simulation of space piracy, for whom raping pillaging and plundering is pretty much the job description?

Anonymous said...

Not even true for games actually. If you play soccer you most likely won't talk about offtopic during a game or during intensive training, but you will most likely chat while in the dressing room or while traveling to an away game. You most likely even organize dinners or parties with your team or meet at the bar.

All of these activities are offtopic if you consider playing soccer period, but around the activity itself most will build social interactions and do "offtopic" activities.

The same happens in MMOs: if you are in a serious WoW raid (the actual soccer game) you are not going to chat about whatever you want. If you arrived early and wait for the raid to assemble you'll most likely chat with the other team-members (like in a virtual dressing room).