Greedy Goblin

Wednesday, October 16, 2013

What impresses Ripard Teg?

Ripard Teg is impressed by something that I could only call retarded. The impressive guy didn’t make it as moron as the day, because he was already all over the EVE sites. Yes, it’s the one who managed to lose an officer fit tournament ship, the Chremoas, creating a 110B loss report.

This post isn’t about that capital moron, it is about Ripard Teg, the model “PvP-er”: he flies in AT, he flies small gang, has no Sov and permanently whines about being broke. His opinion of the loss: “Full credit to Tropic9 of HYDRA RELOADED for taking a Chremoas out and doing what it was made to do: pick and choose fights to get into, and kill things... lots and lots of things!  Over a two month period, he racked up a really impressive 168 kills -- most of them solo -- before finally being taken down by Mav'Lite in a Dramiel.  That's impressive by any metric I can think of.”

What impressed the good CSM member? 168 kills in the Sept 21 – Oct 12 period, that’s 229 kills/month. The value of his kills is 2.25B (3.06/month). He lost 110B, ending this period with 2% ISK efficiency. Yes, that’s impressive by any metric I can think of. I mean even Hulk miners have better efficiency as their drones get the Catalyst Concord kill report. For comparison, here are the results of my main ganker pilot, Botslayer Goblin for September: 724 kills, 101.7B ISK destroyed, 96% efficiency, all solo and duoed with my alt. And I used a cheap ship, often facing literally a dozen of hostiles instead of a monster-frig in a frig-only complex with perfect links, popping lost newbies in armor tanked Merlins, meta-fit Rifters and assorted comedy. I guess most of his victims thought that “Chemoras” is the new name of Iteron II.

Again, the point is not that Tropic9 is exactly 11x dumber than the one who put 10B into an untanked T1 industrial and 9 times dumber than the one who lost a 13B Falcon to POS guns. The point is that Ripard Teg considers this drooling imbecile impressive, something that worth respect, an example what an EVE player should be. Why?

The best I can think of is conspicuous waste: by purposefully wasting 110B, he displayed that he has 110B to throw away. I got lot of attention when I was throwing similar amount on TEST alliance. Actually got the attention of Ripard too. He wasn’t impressed though, probably because my donation drive wasn’t meant to be lost, unlike the Chremoas. What he did was like buying a titan, self-destructing it and get on the kill with a noobship. Dumb, but unquestionably shows that the owner can afford such nonsense.

Don’t forget that Ripard Teg got lot of votes on CSM8 without being in a block. Lot of people consider him a leader. This post is a window into the mind of the kings of the ghetto block: get into fights, be loud, pay drinks to everyone when you have money, plan nothing, save nothing, regret nothing, live fast, die young. Note: I don’t think that Ripard is a ghetto fighter in real life, but he sure roleplays one in EVE.

The “impressive” loss of the Chremoas should be a wake-up call to everyone. This isn’t a good life, this isn’t where we want to be, not even in a video game. While it doesn’t impress Ripard and the likes, I’d suggest to play smart, don’t waste your money, be goal-oriented, ignore what “l33t dudes” tell, get lot of ISK and lot of kills.

PS: of course, Ripard is wrong about the purpose of the Chremoas. It was a tournament ship and should have given the edge on the next tournament against a worthy enemy, instead of dumbly lost while farming frigs that I wouldn’t bother to shoot even if they’d sit on the station undock flashy yellow.

Since there are never enough morons, here are some more: white knights protecting … the empty ice field (the ships without brackets are Caldari Police):
And as always, an anti-tear, miners celebrating the fall of their dumb comrade. More ice to the tanked miners!


MoxNix said...

"frigs that I wouldn’t bother to shoot even if they’d sit on the station undock flashy yellow"

That type of thinking is exactly why I like T1 frigates for transporting small valuable items.

Anonymous said...

This is a good post because it shows how your isk centric view skews your view of eve. First, the guy is not a moron. Far from it. The guy is a pvper which has the balls to take a rare ship and what that ship is designed to do - take fights. He had a lot and he died. This is eve pvp - the thing you still don't understand despite us telling you about it. What he did was brave, fun and impressive. It wasn't stupid. Kudos to him. Nobody cares about killboards and this is just a sign of that. The guy mostly got universal praise. And you are also wrong on the purpose of this ship - covops don't do well in a tournament. You should take you time to actually read its description. It's a pvp ship. Period.
Second, Ripard is impressed about the attitude/skill of the pilot, having a large number of good fights solo. He is not impressed by isk efficiency. That is what you and you alone care about. And that's what we've been telling you. The metric by which you judge yourself is meaningless. Nobody cares, all we see are skill less ganks. What Ripard saw was a dedicated pvper with balls. If you ever want to be a pvper you should start to think as one. You goal should be the fight not the kb stat.

Gevlon said...

@Anonymous: If I buy a titan, fit it with smartbombs, drive it to some frigroam, smartbomb down 160 frigs, get tackled and killed, would I be a "brave PvP-er" or just a moron?

Because I sure feel very stupid losing a titan for 2B worth of frigs.

And tell me what is the good fight in ganking an armor Merlin?!

Rhianna Ghost said...

To the Anti-Tear: It adds to the humor, if you know that the name of the commentor at the bottom means "head-desk-enlightenment" in German...

Lucas Kell said...

Honestly Gevlon, this may be your dumbest post yet.
Again you feel the need to compare your killboard, the one you get from killing unarmed miners by using alts that can't be attacked to provide you with a safe warpin for you cheap disposable alts, to someone who is risking a ultra rare ship.
The guy wasn't going for isk efficiency, if he was, his ultra rare ship would have stayed docked and he'd never have got it out. What he was going for is actually having the balls to put his assets on the line and getting into fights.
You laugh at him fighting frigs, but his ship is a frigate class. There no point in him going up against a battleship and getting his ass blapped by drones while chewing through armor.
I tell you what, you take ANY frigate, and go do what he did. I bet within a handful of fights your be destroyed.

The problem is you see the whole game though YOUR blinkered view. Isk efficiency is the only valid metric for you right now, and what the KB says beats all. Well guess what buddy, you don't decide what others with find impressive. The truth is, the majority of the game would find what Tropic9 did impressive, and what you do to be absolutely pathetic. You buff your KB in complete safety, with disposable alts. You've said yourself you've got enough isk to replace you ships for eternity, so you don't care about losing them, and you only fight ships that have no chance to fight back. What you do, you have said yourself that anyone could do. The reason most of us don't is because there is no point, it proves nothing, it accomplishes nothing. It's just you making a number on a 3rd party site higher.

Honestly, I don't know what else to say. If you legitimately can't tell the difference between what you do and what he did, then you must either be pretty dense, or must be so self centred that you refuse to accept anything could possibly better than what you do. Either way, I pity you.

Zosius said...

@Gevlon: "It was a tournament ship and should have given the edge on the next tournament against a worthy enemy"

that is a stupid suggestion, because it is still only a frigate hull and tournament is not 1v1.

There are only couple of ways to use it. 1. Sell it, get ridiculous amount of isk for a frigate hull. 2. Use it in a fight and welp it by getting blobbed sooner or later, which exactly what he did.

While it does take balls to do that, I give him that, however it is not wise decision if he needs to spend any time to farm isk. He might be rich, but if he still spends time to farm isk that is the time he lost. Let's say he gets 1bil/hour, he just lost 100 hours. Hours he could have used for pvp. I

If he, instead, had binged 100 dramiels 1 bil each, this would have been far better return for investment in terms of efficiency and fun.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous: While I myself don't fully agree with GG's take on EVE PvP, I fail to see what is impressive about "picking your fights" in an overpowered(all tournament ships are), faction/deadspace fit frig. That's like saying it's impressive to take RLML Cerberus and "pick your fights" only attacking lone frigates. What makes this so ballsy? That he was doing it in a 110B worth of ship? Funny - normally when you lose a ship worth that much it makes ALOD headlines...

Anonymous said...

Gevlon, If you do that you will be a moron by your definition. Because you wanted to do something stupid and you did. That guy didn't want to do and didn't do anything stupid. He took a pvp ship, fitted it appropriately and went on a killing spree. The fitting matched the ship, his tactics was successful so he got what he wanted and what we care about - fights. And about that merlin - people told you about ganking in pvp already. There is nothing more to add. You just have to figure it out yourself now.

Oska Rus said...

I agree with you. Frig fights in eve are against spirit of this game. Fights with nothing to loose or gain and no significance whatsoever. Like CoD...

Using 100B ship in it is just moronic. Making your lose significant but with nothing to gain.

Gevlon said...

@Lucas: if I take out a Merlin with 200 PLEX-es in the hold to 1v1 with other frigs, am I a "ballsy PvP-er" or a pure retard?

Lucas Kell said...

"if I take out a Merlin with 200 PLEX-es in the hold to 1v1 with other frigs, am I a "ballsy PvP-er" or a pure retard?"
You'd be pretty ballsy, though a little eccentric.
The reason people don't do that is it's pointlessly adding value to a ship. He took a rare ship and took it into battle. What's the point in having a rare ship if you are just going to spin it in stations? Plex have other uses, the ship does not.

Blueberry Cake said...

Do you know something called "thrill"?
I guess you don't get any adrenalin rush while warping into an ice belt.
After some weeks in FW you know what fights you are going to win - and what fights you are going to lose.
Flying a rare ship, worth x billions, will bring you back the "thrill".
Everyone is going to chase you, everyone is willing to risk his T1 frigate just to find out how strong your rare ship is.
Blobs will try to catch you.
Intel channels explode whenever you undock.
It is you against everyone else, not matter what corp/faction he is in.
That sounds like a lot of fun!
Oh... fun can't be measured... damn it!

I'd love to have a lossmail where this Chremoas killed me. Just because Chremoas are part of EvE history and only few pilots will ever see one.

Yes, "thank you!" to the pilot who was willing to take his ship out.
"Thank you!" to the pilot who had the connections to drop dozens of frigates onto his enemy to prevent his loss but didn't.
"Thank you!" to the pilot who enabled someone to be part of EvE history / lore as the first one to take down a Chremoas.

You sond a bit jealous... I only read: "I gank XXXXXXX miners and still I am not part of EvE history! Still people think I'm only a clone of New Order! I don't achieve anything worth remembering my name, no matter if I trade or gank or donate or whatever! If I ragequit now my name will be forgotten within 2 month! This stupid moron only need to lose his ship and won't be forgotten! EvE is unfair!"

Gevlon said...

A 110B frig have other use: sell it to a moron for 110B!

Babar said...

Sell it and do what with the money? Assuming that this guy is rich enough to be able to lose a 110b ship, what exactly is it that the extra money can buy him?

As someone said, I can only imagine the rush this guy felt every time he was in a fight. Every time he got close to losing it, every time he just escaped a gang. You can't measure these things in money.

Is it stupid to spend money on sky-diving, scuba diving, climbing or anything similar in real life? Money wise, it's a silly thing to spend money on these things since it's basically money down the drain with nothing to show for afterwards. Yet completely rational people do it all the time, and for them the money is well spent.

You can't put a price on these things, they don't have "value" by themselves. Same thing with pvp'ing in a tournament ship. This is basic human behavior, how can it be so hard to understand?

Lucas Kell said...

"A 110B frig have other use: sell it to a moron for 110B!"
As babar said above. Do what with the 110b?
You are currently ganking which makes you considerably less isk than you used to make. Why?
You've said that you already have enough isk to keep doing what you are doing for the foreseeable future. What would an extra 110b add? Other than making the number representing your isk a bit higher, what would it accomplish?
Taking that ship out is something very few people will ever get the chance to do, and fewer people will be willing to risk it even if they had the chance. It the reason why some rich people will spend a shocking amount of money on a unique bottle of wine. They don't buy it to look at, they buy it to have an experience that few others will have the opportunity to have. They pay for that experience. That's all this guy has done. He's paid for the opportunity to use this ship. And I don't suppose he's lost anything for it, he'll be no worse off now. He's probably still got plenty of isk and assets left.

Gevlon said...

He could buy 100 faction fit pirate frigs from the price and get much more kills.

He could buy a titan and get carrier kills instead of frig kills.

He could buy T3s and get non-frig subcap kills.

Chris K. said...

Not using a pvp-centric ship in pvp is the equivalent of never taking your Lamborgini (that was gifted to you) if fear that you will someday crash it.

You are right, that if he was poor/struggling he can sell the luxury item and set himself up nicely, however he clearly didn't need more money and the ship to him was just a tool, just like a Lambo is a tool to a multi-millionaire.

Lucas Kell said...

But he can probably buy those anyway. So why pass up a unique opportunity to just do more of the same?
Fighting in that ship is pretty much a once in a lifetime opportunity. Fighting in 1000 faction fit pirate ships would still not be the same as fighting in one of those, regardless of what KB stats he achieved.
You don't understand because all you care about is numbers. He doesn't.
It does confuse me though that you don't care about building your isk up any higher. You could spend all of your time trading instead and have lots more isk. Why is it you have chosen to stop and perform a task which is not as isk efficient?

Oh and by the way you don't just "buy a titan and get carrier kills" lol. You are welcome to try, but it won't end well for you. I doubt you could get a single carrier kill before you just nuked into the ground.

Rammstein said...

Imagine this situation in any other game. Let's say..chess. A chess player takes an expensive chess set, around 5000 dollars of handcut crystal chessmen. He challenges 160 people to 1v1 chess games, where they have to play a rook down, but if they win, they get to destroy his chess set with a sledgehammer. He gets 160 solo wins, then finally someone traps him and bashes his chess set with a hammer. 5000 dollars down.

But, he got 160 solo "good fights", so he's widely admired by chess players everywhere for his fighting spirit. Does this example make sense? Or would chess players think he should have just sold the chess set, gotten the 5000 dollars since he clearly doesn't value the actual set at all, and then played 160 fair games, instead of 160 games playing a rook up?

The answer is obvious. Why isn't it obvious here in EVE? The thing is, blaming it all on 'isk-centrism' isn't reasonable. It doesn't matter how much the set costs, the example still doesn't make sense. Even if it's 10 dollars, bribing people to play unfair games in the name of "good games" doesn't make sense in the world of chess, but apparently to PvPers here it does.

Anonymous said...

I think this is a classic case of different yardsticks between you and Ripard.

You see terrible inefficient use of isk, he see's a guy who had a lot of fairly unique giggles.

Pretty common problem in a sandbox game with no clear victory method.

Babar said...

If his goal isn't to maximize his killboard, and he enjoys frigate fights the most, then neither of those 3 options would net an experience anywhere close to what he got with his tournament ship.

Fidtz said...

Usually I agree with you Gevlon but this is all wrong.

Fitting out a fancy rare ship and going off to fight the best you can is one of the end games of EVE. It is one of the ways to win if you can do this kind of stuff without it bankrupting you.

It is one of the reasons to get ISK in the first place.

Not understanding this means you have failed to appreciate one of the basic reasons for a space combat and trading game to exist.

The ISK/spreadsheet game exists to support the political/combat/toy-ships game, not the other way round. Trying to swim against this is futile and misguided.

Marc Callan said...

It's not a matter of being dumb. It's more a matter of different measures of victory and defeat.

You've got a method of gameplay that makes sense to you, from which you derive enjoyment. It's perfectly valid - BUT - it's not the only perfectly valid way to play the game. Some people will gladly accept getting mauled in ISK efficiency if they can hold a tactical or strategic position; others are simply in it for the thrill, for the fun - like someone who could keep a Ferrari perfectly preserved in a garage, but feels it's more appropriate to take it out on the roads, for which it was designed, after all.

Other people have a different hierarchy of priorities. They're following the same sandbox rules, but playing a slightly different game, with different victory conditions. It's entirely possible for two sides to fight and both coming away thinking they've won, because one person can satisfy his own victory conditions without preventing the other from achieving his victory conditions.

Blueberry Cake said...

So he could do a lot of boring stuff.
Stuff he could do all day without selling the Chremoas.
Boring stuff like warping to x, lock y, hit F1 and wait until CONCORD arrives.
He could be like you.

Why should he?

Not everyone wants to do boring stuff over and over again.

It was your decision to turn yourself into a barge-killing bot.
It was his decision to be the "Running Man".

I bet he enjoyed his time.
Do you enjoy your ganking time?

There must be a reason why everybody is talking about the Chremoas killmail... while only your local chat talks about you.

Can't judge who is the moron.

Gevlon said...

If his action is commendable, why do people laugh (instead of being impressed) on ALOD articles. After all the guy with the 60B incursion nightmare surely had fun outdamaging everyone in the fleet. Yet I've never seen "kudos to him for flying that ship" but all I see is "idiot losing 60B ship". The guys with the 10B T1 industrials aren't called brave but idiots.

The PL smartbombing titan killed by FW guys is called idiot despite he did exactly what this guy did: picked fights with an expensive ship. He also killed lot of frigs in the weeks before FW took him down.

Why is this specific ALOD is different from all other ALODS?

Lucas Kell said...

"If his action is commendable, why do people laugh (instead of being impressed) on ALOD articles"
It's usually because those people are being immensely dumb. They don't have a unique ship, they just bling themselves out the the point that they are a target for gankers everywhere, then they go out grinding the isk they've just spent on that ship back again, a 60b isk nightmare will not make that much more than a considerably cheaper one, so since their goal is to make isk spending that much isk and not fitting for anti-gank is immensely dumb, since it will take years to recoup it in additional profit. If this guy had taken his frigate into missions, he too would be immensely dumb.
But hes not after isk, hes goal is to get into fights until he dies, which he did. I'm sure there are 60b isk blinged missioning ships that are a good investment, but in order for them to be good, they don't die, hence why you don't see them on killboards.
If the titan is the one I'm thinking of it because it's fit was truly awful. I think it was like travel fit + smartbombs with no support. It would have been like this frigate guy fitting his ship with warp stabs, which we would not find impressive.

Von Keigai said...

Gevlon: value is not objective. Value is subjective. This is the nut of your problem. You are desperate to find objective value, so that you can optimize it and impress other people. Your ganking is impressive in a narrow way, but it is not impressive as PVP nor as EVE play in general.

Fidtz up there has it exactly right:
Fitting out a fancy rare ship and going off to fight the best you can is one of the end games of EVE. It is one of the ways to win if you can do this kind of stuff without it bankrupting you.

It is one of the reasons to get ISK in the first place.

Not understanding this means you have failed to appreciate one of the basic reasons for a space combat and trading game to exist.

The ISK/spreadsheet game exists to support the political/combat/toy-ships game, not the other way round. Trying to swim against this is futile and misguided.

Anonymous said...

I think this comes down to "percieved" value. Even if the tournament ship has a market value like a titan, people percieve the value of the ship much lower, since frigates generaly cost much lower. They compare this ship to other frigates, since thats the ships class, so they see the price in the frigate range. In this case it is like he lost a superfrigate fighting good for him. Not he lost a titan money fighting.

Anonymous said...

What makes it ballsy is that he couldn't guarantee any of those fights would turn out like he thought. He roamed through the space I live in a bit. There were multiple experienced low sec pilots fitting ships specifically designed to get him and setting traps for him. He continued to engage even though he knew people were gunning for him. Look at that kb and you'll see he did more than pop two day old newbs in lol fit t1 frigs. Yes, that ship is op but not unbeatable. Huge difference between him and a guy that say loses three caps to a few drakes.

Tiye Q said...

@Von Keigai

"Von Keigai said...
Gevlon: value is not objective. Value is subjective. This is the nut of your problem. You are desperate to find objective value, so that you can optimize it and impress other people. Your ganking is impressive in a narrow way, but it is not impressive as PVP nor as EVE play in general."

You contradicted your own point.

You have no way of determining what is impressive PvP or EVE play in general without that value (your value) being subjective.

Nielas said...

Is this really 'impressive'? Was there a massive manhunt trying to kill him because of the ship he was flying or were most of his opponents unaware of what he was flying?

I understand that some people are impressed by a gambler betting big and losing it but I stuff like that never impressed me much. Wouldn't all of this be even more impressive if he did it a cheap ship with no fittings? What was the actual challenge level of what he did?

Von Keigai said...

Tiye, the statement that value is subjective, and then stating an opinion, are not contradictory. Opinions are subjective.

daniel said...

so, can you fly a similar fitted ship into more victories?

i mean, i understand that you are not impressed, because the isk.efficiency is shit.

but, do you think you could get as many kills as that chremoas pilot? solo, in low/null, in a super expensive ship.
can you?

maybe you want to prove it.

Anonymous said...

Because the hull is not worth 100 Billion. The hull is priceless. The value (above and beyond what it could possibly be reprocessed into) is only what someone will give you for it. The pilot should be commended, as his actions are what drive the 'value' of such a priceless object upwards.

Druur Monakh said...

@Tiye Q: Maybe I'm missing something, but I think you and @Von Keigal are actually agreeing. Please elaborate.

@Nielas It's impressive because most EVE players are risk-averse and ISK-eyed enough to never undock such a rare ship, much less use it in combat. It is also impressive because of how many fights this ship survived despited being Target #1 whenever it undocked, because of its rarity.

Gevlon said...

Daniel: maybe I can eat a bowl of shit without vomiting. But I don't want to try it.

Getting 3 or maybe even 4% ISK efficiency in FRIGATE fights is something even less tempting.

Anonymous said...

The relevant metric here is the kill/death ratio, not isk efficiency. I can understand why you ignore kill/death ratios, as yours will obviously be pretty terrible. A high-sec ganker always loses their ship.

Take a frigate, go into low sec, and see how many ships you can kill before you die. Then you will realise why this was impressive.

Von Keigai said...

Gevlon, you are visiting a strange tribe in the jungle. They are all eating something in a bowl that to you looks like shit. They call it "peeveepee" soup and they say it is very good. In fact, they say the thin gruel you are eating looks pretty nasty to them. Yes, your gruel is soup, of sorts, they will admit if pressed. And there sure is a lot of it. Some of them even eat a bit of it now and again, when they are particularly hungry.

But mostly they say no, thanks, Gevlon Gruel is awful. And yet, you've measured the vitamin content of it! The calories! The volume! How can it be objectively possible for soup to be better than your gruel? There is much less of it! There are fewer calories! (Some of them kind of admire your dedication in eating gruel meal after meal, like some robot.)

One particular day, they say the peeveepee soup is particularly good. Every one of them is smacking his or her lips, and expressing admiration to the cook. Do you rethink your opinion and try the soup?

No, of course not. What you could you possibly learn from other people? Their soup looks like shit to you; therefore it is shit. All of them are wrong. You are right. Objectively.

Anonymous said...

I think if I have to impress guys by losing 110b then I must be very rich to do so. IMHO why bother impressing these people? You can eat impression and certainly cant trade it to buy a replacement ship for flying. It just doesnt make any sense. What also doesnt make sense is the claim that the giys who fight good fights and lose 110b are looked up to. Eve must have a very weird player base.

Lucas Kell said...

"I think if I have to impress guys by losing 110b then I must be very rich to do so. IMHO why bother impressing these people?"
It's not about impressing people, it's about a once in a lifetime opportunity. This guy is rich enough that 110b is nothing to him, it's peanuts. Having an extra 110b in the pocket is nothing but a number. But getting a chance to fight to the death in a severely limited edition ship? That's not going to happen that often. Sure, he could keep it to ship spin with, but whats the point?

Think of it like this. In the not to distant future, virgin will be releasing virgin galactic. This is an opportunity for people to be flown into space, for a high price of course. After they've done it, they'll have no more material value, and that money will be gone with nothing to show for it. But they will have had an experience that is pretty unique. That's what they pay for, and that's all this guy has done. He's paid for a unique experience.

The reason people are impressed is that he did well to last as long as he did considering how many people knew what he was doing and tried to kill him, and that he was willing to do it at all. A lot of people just sit on their ship, keeping it to look at in the hangar. Whats the point? Its designed to be flown, so fly it. And fly it he did.

Anonymous said...

You have a valid point.

Can I extrapolate our discussion further by saying that both ISK and engaging in the activities described above are equally meaningful and equally meaningless depending on the individual?

If this line of thinking is reasonably on the right path, should we apply this to evaluating EVE as a whole to ensure that the game continues to improve?

For example I started playing Eve because I had the impression that Eve is place where the player has impact on the game.

For example the markets and industries in Eve are substantially player run as opposed to other MMOs where the markets are seeded or where industry is meaningless because items once created cannot be traded or lost. But in eve the ships and equipment are regularly lost which powers our industry.

In analysing this Eve still has some short comings. I cant articulate the reason yet but there is a lingering meaninglessness in EVE.

For example highsec player mining corps. Why bother working in a mining fleet for marginal boosts given the hassle of co ordinating the mining op when you can easily mine alone and substantially get the same income?

Or why undertake any form of risk in low sec or null sec when highsec can comfortably provide a steady source of income?

Why bother trading in highsec since all you get is more isk with no way to impact eve?

Why bother with null sec sov since you can make comfortable income in highsec?

One reason is people are allowed to do stuff for fun in games. This is a fair conment.

I think we should go further in discussing what can make eve meaningful to players because this will be the only sustainable competitive advantage eve will have in retaining its player base against other Mmos.

Im suspecting that players must create more of their own content, ie if you want to burn jita eve should literally allow it as in destroy the entire station and wipeout trillions of isk in orders or stock. The consequences would be unthinkable. The task would be near impossible. The meaning and impact to the game would be felt for years. I think the slim chance of succeeding in such an endeavour would be what makes eve meaningful and truly sandbox.

In another example why cant we move the trade hubs in jita or dio by seeding 4 trillion isk on some more conveniently located trade route which intersects low and highsec?

Why cant POS owners turn their stations into jump highways or mini trade hubs?

Tom said...

@Lucas Kelly Please stop talking. I read about half your posts and determined you're an idiot. It doesn't make one eccentric to stow 200 plexes in a frig and go pewpew in it... it makes them retarded. The smarter move (and just as ballsy) is to sell the 100b ship and buy dramiels then go pewpew in those. It takes guts to fly dramiels, it takes an idiot to fly a Chremoas to do regular pewpew.

You don't have to agree and you can't site the lack of support for Gev's view as pure support against. The dissenters are the ones that cry the most. You don't see Warren Buffet buying ferraris, draining the oil and then driving them till the engine pops because he can, do you? Or Bill Gates buying Blackberry (oh yeah, it's failing) just to watch it go under, do you? No.

Just out of curiosity, what's you're wallet look like? If it's less than 1B, perhaps you should spend less time commenting on here and more time taking a couple notes out of the playbook to increase your revenue stream. You don't have to fly around popping hulks. In fact, don't, you'll probably screw it up and cry that it's too hard.

Just... ok...

@Gevlon: Love your posts! As a 10 year veteran of the game, I thought I got it. Nope. I get it now. Thanks!!!!