Russia has all of the above, and none of them earn more than $300/month (with exception of Moscow maybe, there they can go as high as $500). I am not kidding. Those are literally the lowest pay grade jobs in Russia - they are below McDonald's, below security guards, and on par with cleaners. School teachers might actually be below cleaners though I afraid.
Hell, even doctors are below McDonald's in most areas - 39% of the medical doctors receive from 10,000 to 20,000 rubles ($160-320) per month working 40 hours weekly. (http://blogs.elenasmodels.com/en/medical-doctors-earn-russia/) - so don't even start me on nurses. And yes, this is truth as I know it, this is what my classmate who became a doctor earns.
Russia has minimal wage at the level of $130/month (7800 RUB) which putin plans to raise to a whooping $160/month (9600 RUB) as a part of his 2018 election plan. The average country-wide salary is $600 (36000 RUB). Feel free to google, first ones are laws, the last one is actual "official" number by russian state statistical department.
Would you call a man earning $320/month middle class? I won't.
Yes they are the middle class. Without them the country couldn't function. And they seem to be able to make their living from $320, evidenced from the fact that they are not starving on the streets. I'd also point out that I haven't seen a single Russian refugee in EU (except billionaire oligarchs who crossed blades with Putin)
I ask cause I am quite curious. Personally I noticed I read a lot less now (I (used to and still do) check daily here, since this is basically hotwired as your blog in my fingers, and only click through if it seems interesting. Since you transferred I read 4 pubg posts, 2 random ones (shadowbanning and 1.2$ an hour), and skipped 9 (all the politics/sjw stuff). Is my behaviour representative of anything or am I an exception?
Strongly disagree. This statement contradicts the definition of middle class.
> Without them the country couldn't function.
No offence, but every time we argue about Russia, you demonstrate surprising level of naivety. It's not without them a country cannot function, but without somebody taking up their jobs. Let me remind you that Russia has virtually no boundaries with former USSR -stans. There are millions of -stan citizens working those jobs, legally or not, and about a million more immigrate every year, replacing russians on those lowest pay grade jobs. They could've overwhelmed Hungary in a matter of 10 years, should it happen there. There are horror stories (confirmed) that they are even kept as slaves sometimes, a local judge in Krasnodar city has kept 6 of them, no documents, if somebody didn't want to work, he gets shot, until one finally escaped and got lucky stumbling on a rare sight of non-corrupt attorney. In the most paid areas like Moscow, you'd be pressed to find a nurse, factory worker, or especially a bus driver, which didn't come from Uzbekistan, or Tajikistan, or Kazakhstan, etc.
> And they seem to be able to make their living from $320, evidenced from the fact that they are not starving on the streets.
It is a common knowledge in Russia that you can't make a living with this kind of money. To survive, most Russians not only pick up a side jobs, but also spend their vacation working on what is known as "dacha" - a piece of land outside of town where people are allowed to grow their own crops. Bad crops do lead to people starving on the streets, just like 2 centuries ago, and we see a raising trend in food theft that lasts years.
> I'd also point out that I haven't seen a single Russian refugee in EU
Then you better look again. Germany states there are 1.2 million russians within its border in migrant status, up to 0.5 million are in France, and a general presence all around EU. This doesn't account for russians in status other than migrant, like those who received EU citizenship, which is a whole another layer of mostly qualified workers fleeing russian working conditions. And there's a huge natural diaspora left over from USSR in baltic states, numbering over a million, which is now also in EU citizenship, so they avoid refugee status. So there are millions you missed at least.
> (except billionaire oligarchs who crossed blades with Putin)
Funny thing is, there are a lot more kids of billionaire oligarchs who serve putin that live in EU countries, with a clear preference to UK and Switzerland. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/18/russia-navalny-trains-spotlight-on-lifestyle-of-putin-spokesmans-son check this guy out for example.
@Caldazar: the old blog gets bigger traffic still, since the same very successful old posts and pages generated most of the traffic all the time. Blogging isn't a static activity, you get 5K visitors all days. I get 500-800 visitors for ordinary posts and then one in a month gets 100K
@Anon: these "-stan" people are part of the middle class then.
I'm sorry but until I see starving children on the streets in the news, I don't believe it.
Highly trained professionals (elite) escaping isn't surprising or relevant.
Definition of "middle class" as "not starving" is something I simply cannot agree with. "Not starving" is supposed to be a border between lower class and poverty, not lower class and middle class. Middle class is supposed to be an economy driving class with some savings it is capable to invest. With $320/month or less, the only thing you accumulate is debt.
Just because they learned to survive without money (soviet union was a great teacher on this subject) doesn't mean they aren't starving. It's growing your own crops on dacha and at home, it's foraging (mushroom and cranberry season ongoing, forests are full of people), hunting and trapping, and other techniques their ancestors used in bad years since forever. Or maybe you prefer new techniques? Have a look, this is a new survival technique they evolved recently: scavenging. https://youtu.be/rfYiW74r-WM (this is Samara city, population 1.15 million people). https://youtu.be/6UHYjwpI0D8 (and this is Kaluga, a town near Moscow). I can find more if you wish, scavenging for food is getting more popular each day. Millions are doing it. Does this qualify for starving children on streets?
> Highly trained professionals (elite) escaping isn't surprising or relevant.
A software developer with 3 years of experience, hotcake profession, earns 35000 RUB ($580) per month here. I can give you the job ads site to see for yourself if you disbelieve. I bet he's considering himself elite, but... that's just not middle class, not even lower middle, the guy is simply poor as fuck. It's poverty he's escaping.
8 comments:
Ok, so what do you think about pure populist leaders in countries where there's no middle class (below 5% population)?
Yes, that's putin and Russia I'm talking about.
Russia has no cops, nurses, factory workers, school teachers, firefighters, bus drivers?
Russia has all of the above, and none of them earn more than $300/month (with exception of Moscow maybe, there they can go as high as $500). I am not kidding. Those are literally the lowest pay grade jobs in Russia - they are below McDonald's, below security guards, and on par with cleaners. School teachers might actually be below cleaners though I afraid.
Hell, even doctors are below McDonald's in most areas - 39% of the medical doctors receive from 10,000 to 20,000 rubles ($160-320) per month working 40 hours weekly. (http://blogs.elenasmodels.com/en/medical-doctors-earn-russia/) - so don't even start me on nurses. And yes, this is truth as I know it, this is what my classmate who became a doctor earns.
Russia has minimal wage at the level of $130/month (7800 RUB) which putin plans to raise to a whooping $160/month (9600 RUB) as a part of his 2018 election plan. The average country-wide salary is $600 (36000 RUB). Feel free to google, first ones are laws, the last one is actual "official" number by russian state statistical department.
Would you call a man earning $320/month middle class? I won't.
Yes they are the middle class. Without them the country couldn't function. And they seem to be able to make their living from $320, evidenced from the fact that they are not starving on the streets. I'd also point out that I haven't seen a single Russian refugee in EU (except billionaire oligarchs who crossed blades with Putin)
Gevlon,
How is traffic on wordpress?
I ask cause I am quite curious. Personally I noticed I read a lot less now (I (used to and still do) check daily here, since this is basically hotwired as your blog in my fingers, and only click through if it seems interesting.
Since you transferred I read 4 pubg posts, 2 random ones (shadowbanning and 1.2$ an hour), and skipped 9 (all the politics/sjw stuff). Is my behaviour representative of anything or am I an exception?
> Yes they are the middle class.
Strongly disagree. This statement contradicts the definition of middle class.
> Without them the country couldn't function.
No offence, but every time we argue about Russia, you demonstrate surprising level of naivety. It's not without them a country cannot function, but without somebody taking up their jobs. Let me remind you that Russia has virtually no boundaries with former USSR -stans. There are millions of -stan citizens working those jobs, legally or not, and about a million more immigrate every year, replacing russians on those lowest pay grade jobs. They could've overwhelmed Hungary in a matter of 10 years, should it happen there. There are horror stories (confirmed) that they are even kept as slaves sometimes, a local judge in Krasnodar city has kept 6 of them, no documents, if somebody didn't want to work, he gets shot, until one finally escaped and got lucky stumbling on a rare sight of non-corrupt attorney. In the most paid areas like Moscow, you'd be pressed to find a nurse, factory worker, or especially a bus driver, which didn't come from Uzbekistan, or Tajikistan, or Kazakhstan, etc.
> And they seem to be able to make their living from $320, evidenced from the fact that they are not starving on the streets.
It is a common knowledge in Russia that you can't make a living with this kind of money. To survive, most Russians not only pick up a side jobs, but also spend their vacation working on what is known as "dacha" - a piece of land outside of town where people are allowed to grow their own crops. Bad crops do lead to people starving on the streets, just like 2 centuries ago, and we see a raising trend in food theft that lasts years.
> I'd also point out that I haven't seen a single Russian refugee in EU
Then you better look again. Germany states there are 1.2 million russians within its border in migrant status, up to 0.5 million are in France, and a general presence all around EU. This doesn't account for russians in status other than migrant, like those who received EU citizenship, which is a whole another layer of mostly qualified workers fleeing russian working conditions. And there's a huge natural diaspora left over from USSR in baltic states, numbering over a million, which is now also in EU citizenship, so they avoid refugee status. So there are millions you missed at least.
> (except billionaire oligarchs who crossed blades with Putin)
Funny thing is, there are a lot more kids of billionaire oligarchs who serve putin that live in EU countries, with a clear preference to UK and Switzerland.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/18/russia-navalny-trains-spotlight-on-lifestyle-of-putin-spokesmans-son check this guy out for example.
@Caldazar: the old blog gets bigger traffic still, since the same very successful old posts and pages generated most of the traffic all the time. Blogging isn't a static activity, you get 5K visitors all days. I get 500-800 visitors for ordinary posts and then one in a month gets 100K
@Anon: these "-stan" people are part of the middle class then.
I'm sorry but until I see starving children on the streets in the news, I don't believe it.
Highly trained professionals (elite) escaping isn't surprising or relevant.
Definition of "middle class" as "not starving" is something I simply cannot agree with. "Not starving" is supposed to be a border between lower class and poverty, not lower class and middle class. Middle class is supposed to be an economy driving class with some savings it is capable to invest. With $320/month or less, the only thing you accumulate is debt.
Just because they learned to survive without money (soviet union was a great teacher on this subject) doesn't mean they aren't starving. It's growing your own crops on dacha and at home, it's foraging (mushroom and cranberry season ongoing, forests are full of people), hunting and trapping, and other techniques their ancestors used in bad years since forever. Or maybe you prefer new techniques? Have a look, this is a new survival technique they evolved recently: scavenging. https://youtu.be/rfYiW74r-WM (this is Samara city, population 1.15 million people). https://youtu.be/6UHYjwpI0D8 (and this is Kaluga, a town near Moscow). I can find more if you wish, scavenging for food is getting more popular each day. Millions are doing it. Does this qualify for starving children on streets?
> Highly trained professionals (elite) escaping isn't surprising or relevant.
A software developer with 3 years of experience, hotcake profession, earns 35000 RUB ($580) per month here. I can give you the job ads site to see for yourself if you disbelieve. I bet he's considering himself elite, but... that's just not middle class, not even lower middle, the guy is simply poor as fuck. It's poverty he's escaping.
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