Greedy Goblin

Monday, March 14, 2016

The burden of being obnoxious

Kcolor, one of the remaining Emporium tenders writes how big burden sov-holding is.
"The current sov system in Eve Online is extremely burdensome, time consuming, and frankly boring for the defenders. Every day, for at least 3 hours, and most likely during the alliance primetime, sov owners get to play whack-a-mole with 20-million-ISK ships, repeatedly needing to up-ship should a larger force come along. The defenders are forced to respond, and when arriving in system, the offending ship just burns away at 4km/s. ... There is no risk to the attacker in this sov system, and therefore there is no driving of fights. Sov owners get to spend their primetime, assuming every system is ADM 6, of three hours defending their space. Any attempt to do anything else, for example, go to a timer in lowsec, is neutered. Alliances with multiple timezones basically get to assign one timezone as slave duty while the others get to engage in more fun activities.
The good minion of Evil is right, this is unfun, burdensome, time-consuming and boring for the defenders. What he misses is that it's equally unfun, burdensome, time-consuming and boring for the offenders. The attacker has to spend more time (due to ADM and travel) to get to hostile space, orbit and entosis. On top of that, he must do it at the keyboard or he gets popped, while defenders can do it in relative safety, so AFK. Attacking provides no kill report, no ISK, no nothing to the pilot. Even if the timer is created and then completed, they get nothing for the destroyed IHUB or TCU or freeported station. If they place their own TCU, they become defenders and will lose it after a few days. Erecting new IHUB or taking station is pointless unless they are really coming to take the space.

The question is, why does someone do this extremely unfun and unrewarding activity? Because the structure being entosised belongs to an enemy he deeply dislikes. Not just to a competitor in a video game, there is no point spending your time to force a competitor to spend less time just to receive absolutely nothing. This is why no one runs around entosising random systems. The reason why Kcolor and his merry band gets to play whack-a-mole and has to deal with AFK cloakers (another completely unfun and unrewarding activity) is that they made everyone mad with their obnoxious activities. They even enjoyed it and made "u mad" memes on those who were upset because of them, collected their "tears" and taunted them that they can't do anything. It seems they were wrong. The "mad" people are entosising their systems, AFK in their ratting places and send mercenaries to kill or annoy them.

The entosising players aren't doing it to destroy the game. Just to destroy your game! Oh, and following the noble Goon tradition, let me classify the Kcolor post as "tears".

PS: these Razor-CO2 capitals paid the price for obnoxiousness.


nightgerbil said...

link to goonie tears please? btw your last link to eve forums was good. I had fun there thanks.

Anonymous said...

"defenders are forced to respond, and when arriving in system"
you shouldnt need to arrive. you need to live in your sov now. oh no! the horror of occupancy based sov.

"go to a timer in lowsec"
the problem is the sov entity believes they should be entitled to throw their weight around in lowsec or highsec.

the quicker the donut is balkanised the more fun we'll all have. well all of us except the RMT overlords at the top of the goonfleet managment structure.

Anonymous said...

Goons have been slowly crushing any guerrilla warfare counter-play for years through lobby. Which as a large hulking organisation, they are vulnerable to. ESS, Siphon and self-repairing structures are just a few of means which goons have bullied or blackmailed CCP to cater to their preferences.

"There is no risk to the attacker in this sov system". It is a cornerstone of Eve that anybody can be a dick for no reason at all. Goons have funded aggression on high-sec through hulkageddon, mini-luv and CODE. Having no interest or conflict with high-sec industry. But if someone wants to piss in their patch? Oh noes, defending is not fun? So fitting for tank not yield is ok at a a ship/individual level - yet goons, special little snowflakes should be exempt from the very behavior they promote.

Anonymous said...

I have to say that watching the tears from the Goons because they are not able to swan around Eve with no risk to their own areas like before makes me very happy. The fun has gone out of Eve for them as their campaigns now have consequences and they cannot afford to let some of their sov fall to NPC based scum as they put it. In affect they are screwed by their own arrogance which is even funnier.


Rob said...

What you're missing though is that the "offender" is doing it through choice and loses nothing by deciding enough is enough and moving on. Offenders can also send just one ship and if it gets attacked it's no big loss, while defenders have to add more defenders if attacked because they have sov on the line if they fail.

Take a step back and look at it, you'll see that the only reason you like the current system is because it benefits the groups you support by allowing them to attack with a very low cost. CCP knows this is bad too which is why sov will be part of citadels once they are out adding a minimum requirement to be able to assault sov.

"you shouldnt need to arrive. you need to live in your sov now. oh no! the horror of occupancy based sov."
But to create content they have to go elsewhere. The current system makes deployments too risky because people have to stay in their sov every day to make sure it doesn't get taken.

"the problem is the sov entity believes they should be entitled to throw their weight around in lowsec or highsec."
Are you saying they shouldn't fight anyone else?

Anonymous said...

Wait, so, you think people hate goons IRL (all of them), so they are attacking their systems?

A Merc said...

The irony is the situation is of their making, if you wipe all potential sov holding resistance within x/y radius what do you expect you are going to have to contend with? Smaller groups nibbling at the edges of your sov empire for a particular reason.

The proposed change isn't aimed at fun fights, its aimed to free them up from having to regularly defend sov, freeing up resources for an offensive operations oh lets say low sec. The only reason why the likes of MC/Snuff/PM/and friends are able to go toe to toe with the CFC on some of the timers is that they cannot redeploy on mass. If it were the case, we'd simply not contend the low-sec towers and go back to gate camping their systems.

Anonymous said...

I don't agree that the reason people do it is because they deeply dislike the defending party, some people just like to cause chaos and I know a number of people that have entosised space they didn't want and didn't dislike the defender.

Anonymous said...

"I have to say that watching the tears from the Goons because they are not able to swan around Eve with no risk to their own areas like before makes me very happy"
They were never able to swan around with no risk, and the reason they were able to do so wilth limited risk is because they worked to achieve it. Now CCP have handed people who put no effort in the same ability, so of course you like it, because you don't want to have to work to achieve anything.

"The fun has gone out of Eve for them"
Ask yourself this, do you think in the long run CCP will accept making their game less fun for such a massive portion of their playerbase? The sov system as it is has a limited shelf life. Enjoy it while you can because it won't be this easy forever.

Fidtz said...

"But to create content they have to go elsewhere. The current system makes deployments too risky because people have to stay in their sov every day to make sure it doesn't get taken. "

That just means too much territory is being held with too few people (possibly too far out too?). They need to shrink and centralize so they can have sufficient home defence and a powerful attack force simultaneously. Expansion beyond the ability to hold by force is what ends empires. See Rome, Macedonia, Mongols, Britain etc. etc. etc.

Anonymous said...

It doesn't matter how many people or how little territory you have, you still have to use the boring mechanics to defend the space while attackers don't have to commit anything. The only thing that would prove they have too much space is if they were unable to defend it which they obviously aren't, even with most of their people deployed. But while deployed, some people (and worse, all from the same timezone) still have to spend all of their time firing the sov laser to defend their space. It's just bad game design, and CCP are aware of that which is why it's not to be used on citadels.

Anonymous said...

The "hacking" sov idea was first suggested by Endie when he was a full goon agent, subcap supremacy was pushed by Mittens, and the occupancy sov idea was of course pushed by goons since forever. All with the intention of destroying enemy renting empires of PL and NC (which to be fair it did). Now however those enemies are - (without a trace of irony!) - "free from the shackles of sov" and the goons are stuck with a well that they poisoned themselves.

Provi Miner said...

Frack all that garbage, I live in fracking provi we don't deploy yet we get content ever single day all day long. "oh noes its a euro fleet op out by catch" "oh noes its US fleet op out by escama" the horrors of fighting at will pretty much 24/7. We love holding sov its like a huge ask target saying "come at me bro" sure we can be rolled stomped (shhh this the secret part of the story).

Typical null sov holders like to rat in peace get content "when they want it" and deal with as little inference as possible. Lets call this typical sov hold umm little bee alliance. Little bee roll stomps provi but now what? No sov holder is equipped to deal with the shit that happens every day in provi it would freak them out. And that's exactly why no one but provi can hold provi for long. Look goons can take provi in week or so, but there is no way under the eve gate that the goon members want anything to do with "holding" provi. Sure the resources are to low (oh wait all null is basically now the same). Sure its to close to highsec (you mean you don't have to make 25 jumps to reach highsec?). you can't rent provi out

Anonymous said...

I love reading a Goon trying to talk about effort when they were given Deklin, makes me laugh that one...

No risk, really..., now you have to weigh up losing sov if you deploy like you used to do and because its to 0.0 NPC scum as you defined them you can't bear to let them take your sov, its so funny mate I have to laugh at you. You were all over the map before when you could sit behind large EHP and your large super/titan fleets, now you are not, you even cut short your attempt on Provi due to the ferocity of the defence and the fear of losing sov in Fade to 0.0 NPC scum.

Yes its boring for you which is why you are losing members who are going to other alliances that do not hold sov.

Eve is not fun, its a grind, you just joined the rest of the Eve population, have fun dying..