There is complete consensus that The Mittani did a sickening thing in his Fanfest presentation. But desperate Goons trying to save their master people who believe in goodness claim that he has changed. He is not the man he was before, he'd never do it again. So I offer him a chance to prove it. If he takes it, I won't mention Fanfest again and accept that he is no longer that scum in the wizzard hat.
His minions are still ganking ships in highsec. That's fine, killing ships in a spaceship PvP game is like shooting a tank in World of Tanks or taking a piece in chess. But afterwards they lie to the man behind the screen just to make him feel sad or mad. This has no in-game point, it's just for the sick fun of the Goons. They harvest tears, like the very one he listed on his slide. If he truly regretted humiliating that man, he must stop his minions from humiliating other people. So I demand a coalition wide rule for the Imperium, announced both on TMC and ping:
Gank victims must not be called to tear harvesting chatrooms or sent tear harvesting mails. Instead they must be informed by the gankers in EVE-mail about a page in TMC with useful info on ganking. The gankers must keep the sent mail in their folder to prove via API to directors that they sent it in case of doubt and complaint.
That page must contain:
Why I didn't open with this post? Why demanding his ban first and crying hypocrisy? Because that allowed people to avoid conflict and retreat to the "yes, he deserved ban, but long time passed and he is reformed" corner. Now that corner is full of people and this post conflicts them with their line. If he is reformed, he must stop doing what he was doing back then, and if he doesn't, he deserve punishment, just as you said. If the first version of the page is not created this week and the ping doesn't go out to end the decade of farming human sadness and anger by Goons, I'm sure that every decent EVE player will agree:
Incidentally, if you want to make the guy lose his EVE-business, his name is The Mittani. It's T-H-E M-I-T-T-A-N-I. He has his own coalition. Find him!
Let me give an example for decent behavior. After killing a 7B ship, one shouldn't farm tears and insult the other player, but teach him that jumping a capital to a cyno beacon, especially a JF to YAO is a poor choice, because some elite PvP-er from MoA surely watches it in a tackler and cyno in his full insured dread what kills you before the response fleet could do anything. A video explaining how this happened is also provided for your education.
His minions are still ganking ships in highsec. That's fine, killing ships in a spaceship PvP game is like shooting a tank in World of Tanks or taking a piece in chess. But afterwards they lie to the man behind the screen just to make him feel sad or mad. This has no in-game point, it's just for the sick fun of the Goons. They harvest tears, like the very one he listed on his slide. If he truly regretted humiliating that man, he must stop his minions from humiliating other people. So I demand a coalition wide rule for the Imperium, announced both on TMC and ping:
Gank victims must not be called to tear harvesting chatrooms or sent tear harvesting mails. Instead they must be informed by the gankers in EVE-mail about a page in TMC with useful info on ganking. The gankers must keep the sent mail in their folder to prove via API to directors that they sent it in case of doubt and complaint.
That page must contain:
- "Why was I ganked?" section: hint, not because Amarr space is Goon-owned. Explain that pirates want his cargo, gankers want killmails and bored nerds just shoot ships for fun, him being non-hostile is not enough to be left alone.
- The importance of tanking and tank/cargo ratios. What to haul in a freighter, what in a DST and what in a covops T3 cruiser. Hint: blueprints and implants go to T3.
- Actual tanking fits for all hauler classes. My Ark/Providence fit (along with the possibility of using Slave implants) that proved itself in Burn Uedama must be listed. No link to me or mentioning my name needed, just the actual fit. If you think that fit is bad, next Burn Jita you can prove that.
- How bump-tackle works and how to counter it (by using DSTs/T3 when possible, exit cyno for JFs, webber alt for freighters).
- The importance of having repper alts/friends to top you up after surviving one round. The existence of hauler corps to join.
- Advice against hauling PLEX. Explaining methods of using PLEX remotely by alts and "Donate time".
- The two mining strategies: expendable AFK Retriever or tanked Procurer/Skiff. Advising against using Hulks and Mackinaws in highsec as they are always profitable to gank.
- The importance of moving while mining, orbiting rocks, especially for Ventures.
- Actual mining fits. Here is my page about fits and advises, feel free to use any of them, no link or mentioning my name is needed.
Why I didn't open with this post? Why demanding his ban first and crying hypocrisy? Because that allowed people to avoid conflict and retreat to the "yes, he deserved ban, but long time passed and he is reformed" corner. Now that corner is full of people and this post conflicts them with their line. If he is reformed, he must stop doing what he was doing back then, and if he doesn't, he deserve punishment, just as you said. If the first version of the page is not created this week and the ping doesn't go out to end the decade of farming human sadness and anger by Goons, I'm sure that every decent EVE player will agree:
Let me give an example for decent behavior. After killing a 7B ship, one shouldn't farm tears and insult the other player, but teach him that jumping a capital to a cyno beacon, especially a JF to YAO is a poor choice, because some elite PvP-er from MoA surely watches it in a tackler and cyno in his full insured dread what kills you before the response fleet could do anything. A video explaining how this happened is also provided for your education.
35 comments:
I'm curious, how many sets of demands are you going to post up on your blog before you realise you have absolutely no power that would urge people to comply? If Mittani doesn't comply with this, then you'll continue to complain for a while before you get bored, and nothing at all will change. It will just be yet another episode of failed metagaming.
Why is it OK for you to keep calling people morons after linking the kills, but not alright for goons to do it to gank victims? Why do CODE not have to also do this, as they do far more of the tear getting?
@First anon: why are you reading the blog of someone with absolutely no power? Why are you wasting your time commenting?
@Second anon: because they ARE morons and they must face it. There is a huge difference between calling someone out over an error and just insulting the person.
"@Second anon: because they ARE morons and they must face it. There is a huge difference between calling someone out over an error and just insulting the person."
That's not how it works, if you call someone a moron then yes you are insulting them. It doesn't suddenly change to not being an insult simply because you feel justified in your reason.
You sir, are harrassing other players.
Good try, but nope. Simple example:
- you are a moron for fitting a dread without any tanking module
- you are a moron
The first is simply calling out your error without the usual liberal "you are a perfect snowflake as you are" crap. It assumes that you can be a non-moron by fitting your dread reasonably. The second is just me being an ass.
You already made demands of the imperium and was totally ignored. I see no chance for a different outcome now. You have no leverage, only a fun conspiracy theory blog. Do you really think it's enough?
Were you asleep in the past days? Have you read reddit or my comment section? Hell, have you read the TMC comment section about B4R: people are fed up with the disgusting shit of The Mittani. The big difference is that these are NOT my demands, I just worded them. It's a logical solution that everyone with brain reaches:
If the Goons continue to collect tears, they didn't regret Fanfest, they are the very same despicable excuse of human beings whose brightest specimen paraded his crap around in a wizzard hat
Your target seems off. EVE's gameplay itself allows for all sort of questionable activities that would never fly in "real life". Some players have and will step over that line, and while the community can debate the line and the punishments, it will still come down to dev preferences and implementation of bans/punishments/defining the line.
Hard to believe that if you like EVE, you are focused on shutting down an integral quality of the game itself.
@Anon: wrong and wrong. Most lines are drawn by players. Think about the non-infrastructure pacts. There is no developer ban on entosising your neighbor. Similarly Goons can be declared pariahs by the playerbase.
The integral quality of the game is ganking. One can hellcamp a bunch of 1-days newbs into a station. Collecting tears goes beyond the game, it often happens totally outside of it, like the Bonus room.
Reddit pretty much replaced CAOD. The fact that people on reddit are "Fed up" still does not hold any power. Upvotes don't win wars.
This case they can. Making the publisher or writer of "The Fountain War" cancel the contract due to moral issues IS possible with "people are fed up".
Now changing these angry people into someone who actually undock/donate against Goons is obviously harder.
I don't get what you are threatening to do exactly? If goons don't stop tear harvesting, what will you do? You can contact the author, but you already know what CCP thinks about you. Falcon or someone else will probably just say they think you are insane, and nothing will happen. You have nothing to threaten with at all. You've already demanded this before, as part of your Grr goons effort, but this time you can't even use your funding of MoA as a threat, since you're already doing that.
And if it's true what you say, that so many people are outraged and you are only wording these demands, how exactly do you think will happen if goons actually stop ganking? Will reddit, themittani.com and your commentators all agree that The Mittani is now reformed, and everyone will be happy? How can you put any weight behind your demands when you don't control the people you claim are on your side?
And lastly, ganking in high sec and harvesting tears is well within the game rules. It's been done for years, and CCP have never cracked down on it, as long as it's done through in game communication. How is this even remotely comparable to what The Mittani said on fan fest? Stopping an accepted part of the game somehow showed that he's "reformed" from his unacceptable, not-part-of-the-game action?
@Babar: you way underestimating the outrage over the suicidegate (and the "jump on the B4R bandwagon" effect). The author/publisher has a reputation to protect outside of EVE (this is his first EVE-related stuff). The last thing he need is "he is the dude who worked with those psychos" over his head. CCP can tell him what they want, he won't take the risk for one job. Especially when CCP isn't even paying him, crowfunding plans to. You know that, otherwise you wouldn't comment here to discourage me, you'd just ignore me like you ignore the guy who talks to the pigeons on the street about the CIA watching him.
What will happen if he complies? Yes, people will accept that he reformed and won't go after his real life business. They are EVE players wanting to play EVE, not writing mails. The crowd also need an "opinion leader". If I say "look he reformed let's go back playing EVE", they'll do that, not because they are my minions, but because they will agree.
One: I never asked to stop ganking. Secondly the ONLY difference between the average tear harvester and The Mittani is that the latter had bigger audience to share his tear mail. I never questioned that CCP accepted this practice, that's why I called them damn hyporcites for having the nerve supporting B4R. I want this to change.
There is a video of that JF kill.
that was quick https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItcOTOwg5Xg
Can you please make the same demand every time MoA kills a CFC ratter? Our leadership have a post on our forums where they are paying members for CFC tears.
Bullying a bully is a controversial activity. On the one hand, it does the same bad activity. On the other hand, being on the bad end of the activity might open the eyes of bullies and they stop.
That said, if Goons stop harvesting tears, I'll ask MoA to do the same and limit their communication to a "gf" with their opponent in PvP.
Interesting demands you're making. Especially if we're considering it doesn't affect mittens in anyway. I doubt he plays a big part, if any, in miniluv. He might chime in on Burn * tradehub * but that's probably it.
As for a how-to not get ganked article. That would probably fit well on TMC.
But let's get back to the point I made yesterday about this having nothing to do with the suicidal guy or in this case the people getting ganked.
I remember you wrote a bunch of posts about raiding in blues back in your WoW days and how bad the average player was even tho all the information was 1 google search away.
How is this any different? Yes Eve is a much harder game due to the amount of mechanics and stats but all of it is already well documented on pages 1 google search away.
And if it's about tearharvesting, watch the video again and listen to what the people at the start of it say. To paraphrase it: "I will destroy everything you've built and laugh about it. I'll take everything you have without giving it a second thought." But it's all in the context of the game.
I agree with you that making fun of people you just ganked is unnecessary and immature. Much like pretty much every scam. But as long as ccp considers this part of the game experience people are going to do it.
So to sum it up. Will they meet your demands? Probably not.
Should miniluv start sending mails to people they gank? No. If such a rule was instated all ganking alts would go to CODE. Besides it would be like sending a mail to a guy in your PUG telling him to go read up about his spec on icyveins.com
8 out of 10 would just delete the mail. The 9th would click it and then close it again and number 10 might read it and just maybe learn something.
As for the bookdeal. The great thing about crowdfunding is that if you can't get enough backers you're shit out of luck. But let me tell you that even if mittens had the book fabricated in a chinese factory where children were stitching the pages together 12 hours a day the book would probably still be released. Case in point here being the people worshiping Steve Jobs even tho a lot of them knew about foxconn. Consumers don't really care where products come from or how they're made as long as they get their products and don't have witness the process of making them. It's like my grandma who felt sorry for the pigs in the truck going to the slaughterhouse while she was on here way to the butcher shop.
I should really start my own blog cause these comments keep turning into articles. Sorry for that.
@Lucius: if it wouldn't be a central theme to The Mittani, his Fanfest presentation would be about something else. Just because they rarely do it, it's part of their core image. A Goon doesn't identify himself with the 363 days he spent in Guristas Haevens, but with the 3 days he spent in Jita.
Yes, most people are bad and will remain bad even if you tatto the information to his hand. But it doesn't mean we shouldn't try and especially should try to make them dumber.
Destroying or taking their in-game assets is something I SUPPORT. They are bad in the game and had it coming. But why go after the man?
One thing about crowfunding: it means that neither CCP, nor The Mittani want to put a single dime into it. If enough people feel ashamed about the suicidegate, they won't.
I don't see, where "collecting tears" is nearly the same as "if you want to make the guy kill himself".
Collecting tears is not nice and shouldn't be necessary, if you are an adult player. And yes, I understand, that many players are not as adult as they want to be. And I know, some players are mature enough, to take one's ship and stuff, and directly after offering help (even full ship replacement with ISK) and advice.
But does anyone believe, that inciting an unknown number of people to directly push a person with some RL-problems to suicide is not by far more disgusting?
@"undock/donate against Goons"
I am not a PvPer (in terms of ship-to-ship-combat). So I'd choose the option to donate.
But I'm still working on a somewhat solid base for that. And I am not sure, if the donated money finds it's way to the pilots - maybe some guest posts or comments can show the money-flow after the donation.
This is one of the points, I'd like to see a Gevlon-Corp.
Gevlon, that was a stroke of genius. Very nice.
I'm not sure what sanction you have to back up this demand?
It happened over three years ago and was widely covered in the press. If anything is plays into the pantomime character he likes portray.
The incident doesn't appear to have damaged his online business with sponsors from major brands.
@Amarr-Zon: collecting tears is the first and necessary step before bully. The presentation slide was such tear. Once it's done, it's easy to get carried away with bully. The best is not starting.
@Gevlon:
Of course. I absolutely agree.
But putting tear-collecting on the same level as a public request to "make the guy kill himself" lowers the nastiness of the latter quite a bit.
"Good try, but nope. Simple example:
- you are a moron for fitting a dread without any tanking module
- you are a moron"
Yes, and goons are saying "you are a moron for flying a ship that is easy to gank in highsec while we are ganking", so they if you are justified, so are they.
You however aren't justified, since you are just insulting people like they are. You're not following your own rules and trying to help them, you are just trying to publicly humiliate them.
@Amarr-Zon: after the victim is crying, the control is in the hand of the bully. He can stop if he wants to, or go as far as The Mittani. Only if we remove his control can we prevent the latter.
@Anon: this is what I demand here! To make Goons say "you are a moron for flying a ship that is easy to gank in highsec while we are ganking". They NEVER EVER say that. They say that they own that space or that they can gank anyone they want (obvious lie). They explicitly claim that no tank can stop them (surprise, I still have the 10 PLEX-es).
@Everyone: the "stop mentioning a 3 years old story" and "He is a different man now" commenters magically disappeared. What could happen?
"A Goon doesn't identify himself with the 363 days he spent in Guristas Havens, but with the 3 days he spent in Jita"
This is wrong, Goons do identify themselves as the ~elite slayers~ of the guristas, look at their ratting fleet of 200+ chimeras and super caps that drop on a single 25 man stealth bomber fleet. Also, the suicide ganking of highsec includes an extremely broad range of individuals other than just goons.
Additionally, Goons have provided extensive options of beneficial tools for the Eve Online community along with heaps of valuable and helpful information.
"the "stop mentioning a 3 years old story" and "He is a different man now" commenters magically disappeared. What could happen"
You're probably just moderating them out. Either that or they have nothing more to add. The thing is, it is 3 years old and the only people that care don't care because of what he did just because they hate goons. CCP won't take action, Mittani won't take action and before too long you'll realise you have absolutely no leverage and you'll give up.
Give up on what? Defeating the Imperium? How long do you expect that? 2 years now. But hey, maybe this "you are irrelevant" will work, so let's try it.
Is it guaranteed that I can damage his business? No. Does trying cost me more than a few keystrokes? Nope. So tell me, why I shouldn't try?! If just one man says that "this is a horrible scumbag, let's do something about it", I'm already closer to my goal. And judging from Reddit and comments from the past days, even comments on his site, several people realized that.
I always came here to read about your insight into Eve but this blog is turning into the ravings of a mad man.
Never thought I would see an Ayn Rand admirer turn into a social justice warrior.
What social justice? I still agree to take his ship in fair competition. (Catalyst vs Retriever is fair, he has options to defend)
I merely want people to spread knowledge instead of anger. Can you cite Rand when she called for anger?
If you really care about what Mittani said at fanfest and with CCP's response then stop playing EVE. That is how a true libertarian would handle this. Don't give them your money, your time or your ink. To me it just stinks of faux outrage.
You are doing a disservice to yourself by going down this rat hole.
> They say that they own that space or that they can gank anyone they want (obvious lie).
Depends on perspective, really. In eve power comes at the end of a gun. They might not "own" the space in the strictest sense but they can (and do) gank anyone they want.
"Especially when CCP isn't even paying him, crowfunding plans to. You know that, otherwise you wouldn't comment here to discourage me, you'd just ignore me like you ignore the guy who talks to the pigeons on the street about the CIA watching him."
I am here to discourage you for the same reason I respond to tinfoil hatters and misogynists on reddit, or rabid creationists on twitter....firstly, because it is not you I am talking to, it is anyone who is not totally sold on your propaganda, secondly, because you should call out faux outrage for personal gain wherever you see it, whether that be GOP candidates, or Cameron, or whoever.
You might think reddit supports you, but you could at least show evidence that any of the main players in this event support you. Your "Do this to end a decade of bullying" gives it away.
What do you call spending billions a week on one entity, then when that fails, going after a percieved supporter, and then the guy in charge?
Especially if you dismiss everyone who disagrees with you as a shill, or goons (regardless that a number of us do not play eve). "I am the fair and balanced voice of reason, wake up sheeple" is how it sounds.
09:21 Gevlon One: I never asked to stop ganking. Secondly the ONLY difference between the average tear harvester and The Mittani is that the latter had bigger audience to share his tear mail.
I don't get the tear harvest. People in EVE know the fast fps days. Back then I learned to never engage in talk. The same "hacker", "cheater", "cyborg" screaming scum like in H1Z1 today was back there. I consider myself not good enough of all that hateful praise. Nevertheless I got it.
Sure there where some very rare conversation. That lead to password protected server access and a loosely friendly group of humble human beings, that where the hardest enemies I ever fought. But the rate was one line out of thousands "gg", "hacker", "aimbotter", etc that was a noneM&S message.
I PVP today exactly the same way, only difference today I ignore more chat because most games can't log that to a file, where I could filter out the nontalk from the real.
I was never going to give money to this but wished it well.
However, seeing they want $150,000 it's the most blatant piece of social media milking I've seen for a while.
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