Greedy Goblin

Wednesday, August 12, 2015

You can't blunt the stunt

After realizing that there is no possible way that I defeat the Goon propaganda machine, especially since lack of CCP professionalism provide them ammo, I pretty much decided leaving EVE. Even bitterly joked about providing "harassment from a dev" as reason. I don't even know why did I log in the game, probably just out of habit. When I returned from my breakfast, a very unlikely angel was waiting for me:
Kill reports from the screenshot:, Muchl (Ishtar), Malus Maricadie (Rattlesnake).

Yes, while I was all out in self-pity over this propaganda disaster, Stunt Flores couldn't care less of the meta-gaming and slain Goons and their minions left and right. I felt pretty stupid. I was all doom and gloom over not being able to manipulate socials (on a project aimed on proving that competitivies+asocials beat socials+manipulators), others did what I preached but failed to live up to: did measurable actions. Then I checked Mordus Angels killboard and the battle of DO6H-Q made me giggle.

I was an idiot. Me, trying to outdo Goons in propaganda is just like a Goon putting ASB, MJD and a point on his blinged ratting boat and trying to PvP. Hilarious and totally pointless.

If I want to convince anyone, I must at first live up to my ideas and stop trying to find social shortcuts like recruiting socials with propaganda or getting Sion banned (no matter how much better the game would be without him and his "diplomats" whose goal is to make other players not log in). So the following resolutions are made:
  1. No more propaganda posts. Any "philosophical" post must be Goon/Imperium-free, using real life or other EVE examples.
  2. Only kill reports, statistics and numbers about Goons/Imperium. They can cry tin-foil all day if the numbers are right and the source is linked for anyone to verify.
  3. By the end of the year upbringing my own performance to 15B/week support for the top 2 Imperium killers.
  4. More business posts to describe how I achieved that.
  5. No more "clever" plans to defeat them, especially since I already have the proper plan:

PS: Want to fly with Stunt Flores? His corp is recruiting:


Unknown said...

Nice to see some self-criticism on Your side Gevlon. Now we just have to wait, for You actually doing what You promised. I am specially eager to learn some new business tricks, since they always gives great insight. Personally I would love if You share with us not only specific "tricks" but more important, how You find/invent them. Give men a fish, he is feeded for a day, teach him to fish, he is feed for rest of his life (as long as his is not MnS I geuss).

Anonymous said...

Way to get back on that horse! I love your blog.

Hanura H'arasch said...

You should link the kills from the screenshot in case people want to check them out.

For your convince:


maxim said...

Glad you finally got the right idea :D
Looking forward for more good insights on things that actually matter.

Unknown said...

I assume by this post then that you decided to not give up. If so: Good!

You should know by now the numbers of people who don't care and end up being Slackers and Morons outnumber those that do care: ie: they care enough that they are not Socialites. They care enough about how well they do despite anyone else saying: the odds are against you.

The evidence that there are large numbers of people who fall for propaganda as well as not caring enough to break from the crowd should be evident by the sheer number of people in the Imperium ne CFC.

Just keep stating the facts. The people who care will hear it and be encouraged. The people that don't care... well, they are already part of CFC.

Unknown said...

Glad that angel was there... never give up.

Stan vanderVille said...

Happy to see this!
Can't wait to see your blog coming back to the things I enjoyed to read!

Gevlon said...

@Hanura H'arasch: done.

@Everyone else: thanks. Let's kill some Goons!

Amarr-Zon said...

"I am specially eager to learn some new business tricks, since they always gives great insight. Personally I would love if You share with us not only specific "tricks" but more important, how You find/invent them."

Me too.
In fact I am very happy to see you not quit, Gevlon. I am not playing EVE for so long, but your blog brought me into trading, and I'd like to learn more.

Stunt "Samurai" Flores said...

Anonymous said...

Wow, your first sentenced had me really worried for a second. I'm glad you are back on your feet and doing what you do best: making a boatload of money and being the biggest financier of a guerrilla war in Eve history.

Unknown said...

I find my selfish pleasure in reading your blog for years. Keep it up, keep me entertained. Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Hey Gevlon,

Like many of the other posters here..... I was shocked when I saw the bit about quitting and then please, in equally measures, to see that you took a look in the mirror.

My Dad always used to say to me, "You have to pick your battles" and I always thought that meant to back down, but it doesn't it means pick the battles you can win and then you get to pick another .... and then another and...... so on.

I was concerned when you blog took a dramatic turn however many months/years ago that it was when you decided to take on the Goons.

I've always enjoyed reading your blogs but it would be great to see something that isn't Goon centric again. Your points will always carry weight but I know I will enjoy them more with a little less Goons in there.

On a side note, I've been considering an invite from Mordus and this last blog has pushed me that little bit further into accepting!



Unknown said...

Realizing, that you can't defeat goons on the propaganda field, doesn't necessarily mean that you should stop making propaganda material yourself.

For example if your propaganda brought in ppl for MoA or Anime Masters then it wasn't for nothing. Ultimately, you won't defaet them with propaganda, but it was a useful tool, at least I think it was.

After 3 years, yours is the only EVE blog I still follow, and sometimes click on the links in your blog list if they seem interesting, but you are the only EVE related blog on my bookmark bar. Would be a great loss for the EVE Community (and mmo community) if you stopped blogging.

Anonymous said...

it is all about "ruining their game" by defeat you would let SA/goons win big time. In the end it is all about denying their fun and forcing to break moral (fun/login-time). And you already partly succeeded, mittens tries hard to get the EVE group into a multigaming state with like h1z1 probably soon Ark. Yes, of course to have a couple thousand idiots who admire him and the goon doctrine to also follow him into the trademark SA raids. But also to prevent dmg to the cohesion of the EVE force when they will lose in EVE.

Unknown said...

David, Gevlon promised to stop propaganda, cause he is rightfully thinking its against his own objective. Which is proving You dont have to manipulate masses to be sucessfull, but rather rational, dedicated individual.

In some bizzare scenario, if Gevlon would outsmart goons propagandists and be sucessfull in destroying goons by frauds, crisis and internal-drama, he wouldnt prove what he wants to. He would simply create BoB v3. (Which could be better in some terms that BoB v2, but it would be still mega-organistation that is chocking the game on the basis of "We are powerful not because data says so, but because people says so".)

Unknown said...

Also, Gevlon, I think You should create more complex algorithm for fighting goons. I know that one is humorous, but seriously stop with that "Make them not log to the game". Dont weaponize despair, boredom and obliviousness. I know, its the only way to root out MnS but I believe goons ranks are full of lv 2 and lv 3 people (You can accuse of their ways, but You cant accuse that they are not good in them) and it would be cool if they would still play and undock... just under other banner and ideology.

I would love to have debate "despair versus ambition as weapon against goons."
What and when is more efficient to cripple ranks of Goonswarm?
Making them fear and despair or driving aways they "best" (l3 and l4) players away?
Does playing on people ambition by giving them objective data and reasoning is still countable as -propaganda-?
If we threat MnS as radioactive, would Goons explode from achieving critical mass if % of their ranks would be consisted of leeches? (That achieved, by driving away the few guys on middle-managment like FC-s materials, industrialists, haulers etc.)

That is but a few questions, but they touch very important (from my pov) problem. So far You are fighting goonswarm with their own weapon (despair, boredom and filling they can achieve nothing against MoA), You tried even propaganda like Goons... But that is still "they" weapon. Its like Nietzscheen looking on the Void. And You want to bring lightness to said Void, not embrace it.

Remember how BoB fell, it started from a single director, that was pissed on his own organisation from being stagnant behemot, focused on preserving istelf rather than taking action (sounds like Imperium to me). Mittani brags about that story a lot. What do You think about weaponizing ambition, to contradtic goons weaponizing boredom and "being part of group"?

Gevlon said...

While their leaders are clearly competitive, the underlinks are either social F1-drones or "letz hav som fun" M&S.

I never said I want these to leave the game, I want them to leave the Imperium.

The plan isn't a joke. I believe if enough financial damage is caused for individual members, he'll look for greener pastures. Remember, M&S want to be carried (and there is no SRP for ratting losses), while socials want to feel part of a strong community (and not one that is hunted like animals).

Anonymous said...

"I believe if enough financial damage is caused for individual members, he'll look for greener pastures."
And you're wrong. All the isk, time and effort you've spent and goons are bigger than when you started and still growing. The problem is that because you don't like "fun", you can't understand what motivates them, so you're still trying to attack them in ways you would attack yourself. The only way to defeat people who thrive on content is to remove content. Mass cloakers across hundreds of systems for example would reduce their ability to rat far more than shooting them.

Gevlon said...

No, they are still here because we kill far from enough of them. Simply the damage I enabled is too little. We need to kill much more to achieve that.

Anonymous said...

Do you really believe that? I don't think it's possible to kill enough of them to matter. They'd simply adapt and move on. The only thing killing them is likely to do is make them better at avoiding being killed and making up for losses they do suffer.

Gevlon said...

I believe too. However I think "adapt and move on" will mean "move on to another alliance"

Unknown said...

Remember Your time in Pandemic Legion though? You joined and supported them, cause You though they are good. Whelp, they werent. I think Yours story is same as lots of guys in goons, they joined their ranks and start being F1 drones, simply because they believe that is how You play this game. That dosent means, they dont have ambition for more. While LV 1 players really are case closed (they are in for free kills, srp and "being part of elite"), we still have LV 2 "Drones/Bots". And while most of them are propably said bots/drones it would be really strange, if some of them wouldnt aspire to LV 3. Said persons are really solid ground for riots and material for goons-fighters. They are eager to see world burn, as long as they would earn possibility to prove themselves. After all You hear from time to time from Goons line members, that they want "gud fight" and "shakes things up, because its boring". Like I said, if they are true to their statment, they are LV 2 aspiring to LV 3, they wouldnt ofc. shake things up/and or start a new war, cause they are after all still LV 2, not 4. So they think the only "proper" way is their managment "we are going to war". Mittani and others knows well how destructive such individuals can become though, as they start to think for themselves... So they organise shitty campaings or wars, that wont change nothing but will create illusion for their line-members that they can prove themselves now.

They promise change, but at the end of day, nothing changes at all.

Your doctrine of "greener pastures" is kind of passive. You want to change enviremont of game so the people that are rational would change they behaviour and adjust it, while lv 1 and 2 players would stop playing/change organisation/change activity, cause "new meta" would say "Ratting in null sukcs, cause You will be 100% ganked". What about trying something active, like supporting rebelions within Imperium istelf? So far, I consider Your "grr goons" campaing as "Anti-Goons versus Goons". While when You read Your own objective it shouldnt be so. It should be "rational vs social". You hate Goonswarm as organisation, cause its stands for ideas You despise, but to queto a classic:

"Any group or “collective,” large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members."

You know who I am quetoing. Now You consider that goonswarm is consisted from 2 groups, one is lv 1-2 F1 Drones and the second is lv 3-4 managment dedicated to spread "evil". While it can be quite contrary, they may be leaders in Imperium on LV 1-2 that can be completly abused and devasted by propaganda and "grunts" or LV 3-4 that are just new to game or never payed much attention (simply, they are busy or rarly log, cause they days of glory are long overdue), which can be reached and by giving them objective data pulled on Your side of fighting "social" Goons.

Of course that is based on my own reasoning that may be flawed, but I consider that Goons are large enough for statistics to work on them. Specially that they arent THAT picky about their line-members.

Anonymous said...

You misunderstand goons. The aspiration is to become a goon, it's a great environment to play in. On the outside everyone see "F1 pushers". On the inside there's a whole additional layer to the game with opportunities to make isk, have fun, shoot people, whatever you want to do. You can't take that away.

Anonymous said...

Well thank god you are over your self pity Gevlon. Read Jester funking out: glad you're not going the same way. I read your blog every day, so thanks.

My best wishes,

Clausewitz said...

Gevlon keep it up. Earn more money so i can slay the Imperium in High Sec :). Doc Know

Cpt Kassad said...

My crystal ball tells me two things:
1) a lot of goon tears on community media incoming, that Stratios is imbalanced,
2) SoE cruiser nerf inbound in max. 4th patch counting from now.

posix compliant said...

I'm glad you're ditching the propaganda. Unless you're the only one setting a narrative, it's better (and more fun!) to compete in concrete terms. "How many people did I convince to think or act differently" is less measurable and interesting than "how much stuff did I support the destruction of". I'll bet that your hard numbers will tell a more compelling story than any amount of words!