Since I'm tired deleting the same kind of comments, I make this post for those who can't find the search button or even the big "GRR Project" permanent page. I just link this post at the end of later GRR-related posts with the hope that less morons repeat the same questions and I'll have to delete them by dozens instead of hundreds. I numbered them for easier reference:
PS: I've long forgotten the lowly scammer Noir, and only a recent EN24 post brought it to my attention that they went out of business in September and their member corps have joined various groups (where they continued to betray their blues, read EN24 post). I hope the money paid by Goons to double-cross me worth it, scum!
- 300B/month GRR-related damage is drop in the ocean. Actually, it's 10% of total CFC losses. We can argue why a 40K people coalition has only about 3T/month (about 80M/player/month) losses, but providing 10% of something isn't irrelevant.
- CFC can replace 300B/month, you'll never beat them. That's obviously true. Did you expect one man to single-handedly destroy a 40K coalition? Now imagine 100 Gevlons. That would be 30T/month. The total ship loss of all New Eden was 40T/month in 2013. Do you think CFC would survive that? And that's just 100 vs 40K. Sure, there are no 100 Gevlons, but is it somehow my fault that people are dumb and waste their money on personal titans that they'll never use instead of financing PvP-ers?
- 300B/month is like 8M/month/player for a 40K coalition. That's a trivial number. True, but the 40K is a largely inflated number. In May and June only 16K pilots had any losses. The rest were not participating in PvP. 80% of the losses went to 4K pilots, the rest were friglollers and cyno alts. True, 70M/month/player isn't going to kill anyone, but it's no longer trivial.
- You are just creating content for Goons. Being ganked while hauling and ratting isn't fun PvP content. Or you seriously claim that the owners of freighters ganked in highsec had fun? Will the player yell "yay, this was awesome", when he returns to the computer and finds his AFK Ishtar pilot docked in a pod?!
- You just cut down the fat from CFC, killing the idiots. Since when CFC is "elite PvP"? Last time I checked "Goons are bad at EVE" was the line. This case I'm killing the model Goons. Also, if they are considered worthless, why aren't they purged after their losses?
- Hauler and ratter losses aren't reimbursable, you aren't hurting the alliance wallet. True, but irrelevant unless you claim that the well-being of the individual line member has no effect on the coalition. With simpler words: if someone can't PLEX his account because he lost his ratting ship, he won't fleet up. If he can't farm his first doctrine ship, he'll fleet up in a Rifter.
- Marmite and MoA would do the same damage without you, you do nothing MoA kill graph doubled since they have SRP. Also Marmite didn't permadec even GSF in 2013 and decced the rest of CFC very sporadically. The total Marmite damage to CFC in 2013 was about 15% of 2014. Wardec costs are damn expensive.
- None of us care about you! I wish that was true. Then I wouldn't have to delete several dozens of this comment every goddamn day. If you don't care about me, then stop commenting and ignore me. Please! Also, making various threads on Reddit with 200+ comments declaring me irrelevant clearly don't work. Maybe if you could get 1000 comments, people would believe you.
PS: I've long forgotten the lowly scammer Noir, and only a recent EN24 post brought it to my attention that they went out of business in September and their member corps have joined various groups (where they continued to betray their blues, read EN24 post). I hope the money paid by Goons to double-cross me worth it, scum!
40 comments:
In regards to your second and seventh point- if there were 100 industrialists bankrolling wardecs against them, they would have to pay more for less damage, as all the good groups' wardecs would already be paid, leaving only the average or bad groups.
If they were all dumbly try to pay highsec deccers, that would happen. This is why I don't pay 2 deccers but Marmite + nullsec MoA.
Have you ever considered sponsoring other nullsec alliances with axes to grind with CFC? Certainly plenty of them living on the borders...
You mean the ones that signed various treaties and the document of shame with the Goons? Yes, that sounds like an awesome idea.
You mean the ones that signed various treaties and the document of shame with the Goons? Yes, that sounds like an awesome idea.
The signing of treaties is politically expedient... doesn't mean they are not still sworn enemies. Of course if you had any concept of how politics or economics worked you'd know this.
Can you link me the list of treaties between the USA and the Islamic State? Enemies have no treaties. They don't have diplomatic relations.
The relationship between N3 and CFC is like USA-Soviet Union: they hated each other, but neither wanted to go to war, so they signed various treaties that allowed coexistence. There were proxy wars, there were support for terrorists, but they ruled out an open conflict.
Your response to number 1 isn't accurate. Yes, it may be 10%, but 10% of an irrelevant number is still irrelevant. And with their double srp etc. it does seem irrelevant.
The "100%" is caused by "everyone" to CFC. Are you claiming that "everyone" is irrelevant? If so, why didn't Goons kicked them out and deadzoned their assets just for the lulz, instead of giving up 3 regions?
Can you link me the list of treaties between the USA and the Islamic State?
Illogical response is illogical. For a start, the so-called islamic state is not a legitimate state.
There are, however, treaties (both economic and of military cooperation) between the most of the developed economies, and Russia, for example (who the world is not particularly happy with), and china (who much of the west has an axe to grind over human rights).
An alliance on an issue does not mean agreement on all issues. But if you had any understanding of politics this wouldn't be news to you...
So what happened to Noir then?
Did you get your bounty on their Titan?
The "100%" is caused by "everyone" to CFC. Are you claiming that "everyone" is irrelevant? If so, why didn't Goons kicked them out and deadzoned their assets just for the lulz, instead of giving up 3 regions?
That's not how it works.. and you know it. You are being deliberately obtuse now.
It wouldn't matter if you did 100% of the damage, if 100% of the damage equated to an amount that your enemy could sustain *indefinitely* then it would be irrelevant damage. And this clearly is the case. The CFC is well within it's capacity to sustain 3T isk worth of damage on it's killboards and not only survive but THRIVE. The largest damage to goons this past year has been caused by game mechanics changes designed to reign them in and even that has barely blunted them.
At the point that the amount of damage starts having a measured impact on their ability to fleet up, maintain their sov (note: for clarities sake I'm not suggesting you have to take all their sov, but a sign of protracted erosion of it, not the odd station flip, would be a data point in the right direction), sustain their recruitment and not have their rate of membership attrition outstrip their ability to replace pilots...then, and only then, are you having an impact.
You are measuring your relevance against a *total* which isn't hurting them. And your own data is failing to show an actual *impact*. Oh you can draw pretty graphs and say that X damage is being done to goons (nobody disputes this), and you can claim that a 10% of X damage is directly attributable to your actions with a measure of dispute leveled against that claim, and that's fine. But what you are failing to do is show even *correlation* between the amount of damage being done and a reduction in ANY of the CFC's ability to do what it has always done, let alone hard causal evidence to that fact.
The mistake you have made is that you drew a conclusion before you started and you are assuming the data fits that conclusion, instead of looking what the data is telling you: For 12 months goons have sustained 3T isk in damage, month in month out, and they are still here and still as strong as ever.
"Can you link me the list of treaties between the USA and the Islamic State? Enemies have no treaties. They don't have diplomatic relations"
False analogy.
ISIS is not a state, and as such has no diplomatic presence.
The USA and Iran, whilst in no way friends, are working together against ISIS
Israel exports goods to Syria, again, not the best of friends, but economically profitable
North Korea has diplomatic relations with much of the West (the USA and France being the exceptions)
Cuba and the USA maintained diplomatic relations during the embargo
Just because you are against an entity does not mean you cannot in some way benefit from selling to them, or otherwise dealing with them.
Don't forget, the UK was selling arms to Iraq while they were under a UN embargo.
Economic and political gain often trumps a nations official stance.
The USA and Russia is not at war and do not want to be. This is what I'm talking about. The answer to "when will N3 defeat CFC" is the same as "when will the USA defeat Russia": never.
I never said they are allies. I just said they aren't enemies. So giving support to N3 will not hurt CFC.
What happened with Noir? Their alliance is no more and their corps are in various alliances. It's called "failcascade". I'm not sure why, nor I care.
CFC gets 3.2-3.3T damage per month on average. 10% from me. This means that they get 3T from other sources. If I would be causing THAT damage, it would still be 3.3T total, sustainable. What I mean is that 10 Gevlons could cause 3T on top of the current base 3T. That would be 6T total. Could they sustain that?
You're basically just underlining the biggest problem with your project. You've been at this for over a year. And it's still only you. There hasn't been a single other person who has contributed in any meaningful way to your project, or the demise of the CFC. You can claim all you want that 10 Gevlons or 100 Gevlons could take down the CFC, but what's the point when so far it's still only you? Why have you failed in recruiting more wealthy industrialists to your cause?
You are basically admitting that your project has no impact, but would have if more people joined in. When we know that nobody has joined so far, can your project then be called a success?
Gevlon said:"CFC gets 3.2-3.3T damage per month on average. 10% from me. This means that they get 3T from other sources. If I would be causing THAT damage, it would still be 3.3T total, sustainable. What I mean is that 10 Gevlons could cause 3T on top of the current base 3T. That would be 6T total."
I have a small question regarding this sentence.
If one woman takes nine months to make a baby, how long would nine womans take?
@Babar: it's first year doing something that no one considered possible. There aren't many wealthy industrialists in my caliber. I mean buying yourself a blinged PvP ship and losing it once in two month is different from spending 50-60B every month.
The real question is: will hardcore players realize that their time and assets can be used better via financing pirates than it is by camping titan logout spots or drive-by doomsdaying ratting carriers.
The Goon management went great length with their "irrelevant" propaganda. After the yearly report every good player must ask: "am I using my resources well, when I have half dozen carrier kills and this Gevlon guy has 10% of CFC kills"?
@Gevlon
""am I using my resources well, when I have half dozen carrier kills and this Gevlon guy has 10% of CFC kills"?"
That depends on the goal of such player. Killing dozen carriers is more exciting and rewarding than dealing with spreadsheets and giving it all away. You get 10% and what do you get in return? Your playtime is consumed by grinding isk and you have no rewards from it (not to mention the reaction of Eve community). You need to understand that is not why people play games. Your goal is not directed to anyone in the Bartle test at all - it's neither killing, exploring, socializing or achieving. Why should anyone support it while they can achieve their personal goals doing something else?
The reaction of the EVE Community is the personal reward. I collected more tears than all the miner gankers combined.
Also, it's achievement on the largest of scales. I mean, show me another player who has numbers in my caliber.
A "baby factory" employing 9 women can "produce" a baby every month.
"CFC gets 3.2-3.3T damage per month on average."
what your critiques are trying to say isn't that your 10% are irelevant, but,
to be booking 300b damage on your behalf, you have to spend x amount of isk.
now the problem is, that, allthough moa and marm couldn't bee doing that much isk damage without your payments, they still would do roughly estimated half that damge.
so, the damage increas because of your fundings translates more into 150b. is that still a good enough ratio for you?
what you also not take into account regarding your hs.fundings is, that if marm won't dec cfc for a while, another deccer would jump in to pick the cherrys, assuming that, your hs fundings would translate into maybe one forth of the current hs.damage done to cfc.
nobody is questioning that you are casuing an effect. but your numbers are very very polished.
@Gevlon
"The reaction of the EVE Community is the personal reward. I collected more tears than all the miner gankers combined."
I don't know if that was supposed to be ironic, so I'll comment on that: there were no tears. Honestly - the community is laughing at this, no crying. Any supposed tears were just people trolling you to continue what you're doing, like the public goon response to your demands. Once again you are misinterpreting facts. And no support from the outside seems to confirm that.
"Also, it's achievement on the largest of scales. I mean, show me another player who has numbers in my caliber."
In terms of ISK - me for example (I'm a trader in Eve on my alts). If I remember correctly, 500B was your highest number. Also I can name MoxNix from the top of my head and mynnna, who has orders of magnitude more ISK.
In terms of PvP damage - pretty much everyone who killed anything, since you don't do PvP.
In terms of damage to CFC - any coalition leader who opposed them.
"A "baby factory" employing 9 women can "produce" a baby every month."
I don't know what this comment has to do about anything here.
@Daniel: there are 40T/month damage in EVE. If we assume 100K individual players, an average player causes 0.4B/month. Compared to this, does it really matter if I cause 300B or "just" 150?
@Anonymous: read miner tears on minerbumping. They are all "you are nothing", "you are a kid", "you are a nolifer", "I pity you nobody". Just like the tears on my project. Or you expected people to say "oh no, please stop pwning us".
Comparing me to Mynnna and coalition leaders is enforcing my point.
I was going to post yesterday after reading en24, about noir. What is perhaps the part you didn't mention was that ally who was sound/CSM is now at odds with her former group Sound. Still gotta admit brave does know how to create internal/external content.
"Also, it's achievement on the largest of scales. I mean, show me another player who has numbers in my caliber."
Off the top of my head?
Entity, Chribba, TornSoul, AkitaT, Flakeys, Kwark,Kithran, any of the crazy people who run/ran solo moon-mining projects
I probably missed their projects (except Chribba) and their results. Please link them to me.
Hint: having money in your wallet does nothing. You have to put it to good use.
@Gevlon
Another anonymous gave you names and now you want a links to some projects? What for, since you asked for examples and you got them twice. They most likely are doing something with their isk, since isk in wallet is just some number. But I expect you will try to further change the rules to finally point to "it doesn't count if they are not doing what I am". You wanted examples, you got them. They simply don't want to follow a fools errand, like you do.
No, I got no examples, just some random names I've never heard of, except Chribba.
They are examples for what exactly?
@Gevlon
You asked for people with "numbers in your caliber" and you got them. The first one gave you people pretty much above your caliber, just as Chribba from the second one. You can add to that (former) incursion running multiboxers, to which 500B is a trivial sum.
Its interesting the critics points, but they miss the point when they say Gevlon is alone: hes not. I recall Mox (another srs industrilist) offering srp for anyone who wanted to goto Goon home and kill goons. That was last yr I think, last xmas, I dont know how it worked out either as I didnt follow his blog much.
Gevlon isnt alone in this. Lets face it eve is a srsly boring game made far worse by the professional cunts who take pride in sucking whatever enjoyment you might find right out of it. Roll on a pve version.
Until then the only real joy or purpose from eve is to either troll and grief the stupids who can't do basic research or to troll and grief the scum who pray upon the stupid. Its like the food chain really. You know why men dont get eaten? why our women dont fiercely guard our kids while we go out hunting? cos we teamed up and wiped out all the predators that ate us.
Gevlon isnt alone in this: Goons are predators. Chewing yr leg off too escape the bear trap is an animals trick. A human plays dead and lies in wait for the hunter so we can kill the MoFo. I am not prey.
I've heard of lot of "trillionaires", but I've never seen their money in action. Where are their multibox titans? Where are their events? Where are their "PLEX for Good" donations? Where are their ALODS?
There are 3 options:
- they are just big mouth and a couple dozen billions in their wallets
- they RMT-ed it away (therefore no longer have it)
- they collected money as a challenge, got bored after 2T and quit
@Gevlon
"I've heard of lot of "trillionaires", but I've never seen their money in action. Where are their multibox titans? Where are their events? Where are their "PLEX for Good" donations? Where are their ALODS?"
And how would you know if the victim of some ALOD isn't a trillionaire? They don't exactly advertise themselves. How would you know who owns how many titans in null? Lack of knowledge isn't a proof of nonexistence. I could ask you the exact same questions:
- Where are your titans - you don't have any
- Where are your events - you don't host any
- Where are your donations - you boasted some symbolic sum, nothing in the lines of Chribba
- Where are your ALODs - you don't fight
Yet you claim to be rich. I can add a fourth option to those 3 you mentioned - they just do what they do and don't feel the need to create a fuss about it. Do you know where Mynnna spends his money? No.
But that's beside the point, since you asked for a single player "of your caliber" and you got more than one above it.
Lack of knowledge isn't a proof of nonexistence but it's a proof of nonrelevance.
The problems I have with your comments are (apart from the whole unproven I gave money therefore kills happened bit) the following.
1: You seem to follow the american dream delusion. The fact that someone can succeed at something does not mean everyone else can succeed at the same thing. Rather the opposite. You fill a niche and once you occupy it, noone else can. Or at least not many more.
2: Just because you seem obsessed with the CFC, most people in highsec will never meet them. On the other hand, they will be ganked by marmite or CODE, thus far more likely to dislike those organizations (provided they care at all)
3: You directly attribute your attitude on how to enjoy a game to everyone else, even though by now you should know the vast majority of people have totally different motivations in playing and thus would not react as you would.
While his fight is kind of hopeless you cant say he's not having an effect. This is one guy declaring a war against one of the largest coalitions in the game and the CFC has certainly taken notice.
Do you have any idea how much hate mail goons get? How many people scream out for their destruction? Now tell me how many people get an entire article on TheMittani.com talking about his personal war. Sure its sarcastic and it makes fun of the situation, but behind every joke is a smidge of truth
Gevlon's making an impact. No he's not going to takedown the CFC. No its not as large as his skewed articles say it is. But this one dude who has made a coalition of thousands look up from their desks, even if its only briefly.
I personally dont get the Goon hate Gevlon. I think there are a lot of groups out there that are worse for this game. But I'm not too proud to say that you make way more money in this game than I. And you make way more of an impact than I. So for that i say keep it up. These articles are endlessly entertaining!
So how does the damage caused to the goons per billion isk scale? You know what it is for you, but what if you had 100 clones, or 10000? Eventually, the point of saturation would come where more isk wouldn't do more damage to the goons, as everyone not in the goons would be working to destroy their ships.
Everyone that says Gevlon is not having any effect is just being intelectually dishonest, He definitly is having an effect, the amount of ships destroyed from last year to this one increased sothat cannot be disputed, what is not clear is wether it is the effect He wants or not.
That baby comment was mine and what I wanted to say was that even if there were more space rich guys funding pirate groups against the CFC the isk lost should not be just be multiplied by whatever amount is being caused now, there is after all a upper limit on how many players want to attack CFC (by what i understand it's just a couple of mercenary corps) so any srp above the one they are already receiving would not cause any increase in objectives done.
Disclaimer:
I do not play EVE, tried it more then once, found it boring and stopped playing, I do enjoy reading about it tough.
And I would never do what Gevlon is doing, that is way too much like doing the boring parts of that game so others can do the fun parts, just like when He played wow and was running his guild raids with all the silly rules about VC and fines and whatnot, I could never play that way, I like to raid but doing the boss fights are just half the game to me, the banter and comradship with the rest of the raid being the other half. The most pointed example of that was at the tail end of wrath most of my guild went on a 2 weeks vacation and during that time I was invited by another guild to tank LK 25 and killed him, something that my guild had never been able to do, I felt no sense of acomplishment, whereas in Firelands when I finnaly killed Ragnaros HC after wiping for quite a while I did feel quite a sense of accomplishement.
If insults are equal to tears, then you should read your own blog posts again.
@muqq: please read miner tears on minerbumping. They are all insults.
"does it really matter if I cause 300B or "just" 150?"
last time i checked your kb stats, they didn't support your numbers.
so, first of all, you do not cause in any way that damage. your are enabeling it.
if i understand you right, you wonder a bit why noone is following your project - well, a 1 to 3 ratio doesn't really make one yell, yeah.
1 to 6 would be muich better, but unfortunately it isn't that.
so yes, it does indeed make a difference.
What I mean is that 10 Gevlons could cause 3T on top of the current base 3T. That would be 6T total. Could they sustain that?
Hard to say if they could sustain 6T.. you are not dealing this kind of damage so we don't know. The only data we've got is the data from your project which says 3T is being done, your project at most contributes 10% of that (and whether or not the 10% is directly attributable to your investment is questionable, but besides the point), and goons are still comfortable as there is no tangible impact on their activities as a result.
You are also suggesting 10 Gevlons = 3T isk, but you don't take into account the opportunity to kill. Goons would have to provide you with 6T worth of targets per month for you to kill with your methods in order for this to work. You'd also need to be able to pile on enough players to capitalise on the opportunity.
That is to say, you are likely to find a saturation point beyond which there are no more targets of value... your project is unlikely to scale damage linearly in line with investment. There will be a tailing off on ROI because there are not infinite opportunities. Whether there is *enough* damage potential out there to hurt the goons in the way in which you are trying to hurt them is an unanswered question...
Confirming that the low and clueless newbee is worth more to us than all the elite pvpers of our enemies.
Sure you are having an effect, but we will never surrender!
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