Greedy Goblin

Thursday, September 18, 2014

Why are Goons so mad at my GRR project?

Goons are mad. Every time I post on the official forum, Goons post dozens of insults, usually ending up as ISD food, but some less primitive ones can be seen. Just search for "Gevlon Goblin", open the thread and "enjoy". Also, I moderate out comments telling "you are irrelevant" by dozens from this blog. Why do they bother so much?

At first, because they get humiliating amount of damage from my project. It's over 2T now, with 200-300B more every month. That's close to 10% of their total monthly damage. And they had to give up the Goonwaffe POCOs. People used to believe that CFC is untouchable by anyone and anything short of the N3/PL Wrecking ball. It's not that a player or small group can't defeat them (that's obvious), but they can't even do token damage to CFC, because of its near-infinite resources and manpower. I measured the "infinite" and found that while 3T/month isn't small, it's neither stellar (about 60M/pilot). I've shown that they aren't untouchables, you can hit them too. The Mordus Angels donation board was created to allow PvE players to contribute to the destruction of CFC.

Secondly, my charts. Before I started posting the killboard data analysis, everyone believed that most of the damage to CFC comes from N3/PL. I proved month after month that the main CFC killers are non-sov-holders, providing well-deserved publicity to the "NPC trash", (propaganda term of CFC against their deadliest enemies). This will lead to increased recruitment, as previously everyone believed that the big action is done by Sov-holders, so those who wanted to matter in PvP went there. My ratting analysis provides intel where they rat and also provide quantitative results for AFK cloaking campaigns.

But above all, the reason of their madness is their total inability to fight back. All the damage they could cause me since I've started this project in January is taking my experimental C1 WH back in March and popping a few destroyers during Burn Jita. Much less than 2T with no hope of further damage. They can't gank my transport Tengus and there is little point in ganking tanked Retrievers. Of course I spend lot of ISK on the project, but that's all my decision. They can't force any loss on me.

PS: Kirothe used to be in Galactic Hauling Solutions Inc.. That corp accepts JF contracts the same way as Black Frog. Kirothe saw 5 contracts issued without collateral by a Goon minion and did what any decent person would:

PS2: I usually don't mock friendlies, but this guy would definitely be better off spending his ISK on the donation board than on Machariels.


Anonymous said...

in the words of everyone who is not moa "Shit we have been shooting them for free, wish we had thought of that (the donation board)" laughing out loud

Anonymous said...

They're not mad, they're a forum community and they do what they always do - forum post.

CFC Grunt said...

You might've picked the wrong myth. The CFC aren't untouchable - they're unstoppable. They will keep coming and eventually overwhelm you with sheer numbers, not be impossible to kill no matter how hard you try.

Compare with Rooks and Kings - with their knowledge and experience, they tend to be efficient and very hard to kill. They became notorious for wiping entire fleets off the grid with their pipebombs, causing massive ISK damage (during a period of black ops pipebombing in Fountain, a loss of 3 Black Ops on their side still didn't compensate for that pipebomb - let alone the whole day.)

In the end though, their terrifying efficiency did not stop the flood. CFC fleets have always been killable - since they could and still can be easily replaced, they could reship or be reinforced. You can kill as many as you like but eventually the tide will overcome you.

For your next analysis, you should prepare a section about how your attacks affected what matters - the ability to form an unstoppable tide of mainline battleships. I'll start with a little tip: More damage is done by an extended period of peace than by guerilla war, especially among those who already have most of what they want.

Gevlon said...

@CFC Grunt: the point of todays post is that the "unstoppable flood" can't even touch me. I have no structures, my ships in space worth much less than their suicide gank would cost, so Goons can't really fight back.

Worst possible case for me is causing 2-300B/month damage to them till the end of the servers and they keep living. But there is no such outcome as "Goons defeated Gevlon".

Now imagine that other rich people join me (not a long shot since other people donated Mordus 3.5x more than I did since the donation board is up). Then Goons will face higher and higher monthly damage without the possibility to fight back.

I believe that I can break their morale by the fact that I can cause considerable damage to them and they can't even do token damage to me.

Anonymous said...

By shitting up your thread they prevent people from taking it seriously.
More intelligent people will close the thread because they think that's two children fighting, less intelligent people think if so many people trash talk you it must be something true, either way it's part of the common goon way - nothing to do with then "being mad" (God knows I hate this phrase).
All you can do is report every single post.

Anonymous said...

So there is no loss condition to your experiment?

Gevlon said...

Goons can win the game (capture all Sov) is a clear loss condition for everyone else.

A softer loss condition would be that the damage my project cause starts to shrink or stagnates for a longer time.

Anonymous said...

Goons can win the game (capture all Sov) is a clear loss condition for everyone else.

A softer loss condition would be that the damage my project cause starts to shrink or stagnates for a longer time.

It certainly sounds like your win condition - do any amount of damage - is unreasonably easier to achieve.

I'd say that since your stated goals is to destroy the goons, your win condition would be the goons disbanding/losing all sov, and the goons win condition would be you cancelling your attack. Anything that happens between is just a standard fight in the war and says nothing alone.

Anonymous said...

Are you truly untouchable?

Your isk comes from trading correct? You do not wish, want, or desire to play the .01 isk war, correct?

So if Goons truly chose to attack you, couldn't they attempt a trade war? I'm not saying they try to gank your travel tengu or attack physically. Rather could they not run locator agents on your know characters, search that regional market, locate the products you trade, and begin to use their large corporate wallet and trading man power to drive you out?

Granted, you could start more characters, move regions, etc, but wouldn't that be time wasted not generating isk to donate?

Gevlon said...

A few corps moving to similar profile alliances like Triumvirate is far from failcascade. Or you claim NC. is failcascading now that Van Diemen's Demise went to PL?

It doesn't need so much complication to find my trade: it's - as always was - implants and in Hek, Rens, Dodie and Amarr from Jita. I already have some competitors. If they start white-knighting and destroy all profit abilities, I just move on. If they destroy all profit in the main trade hubs, then people might even start to like them for providing a useful service.

Anonymous said...

"A few corps moving to similar profile alliances like Triumvirate is far from failcascade. Or you claim NC. is failcascading now that Van Diemen's Demise went to PL?"

Here's the problem with your argument. There wasn't a few corps that went to Triumvirate, there was only one. One corp joined Nulli on the opposite side of the map. The others look like they left on their own accord. The fact of the matter is Mordu's Angels is bleeding members and corporations.

Gevlon said...

These corps are yet to find a new place. By the way the numerical results define an alliance, not member count. We'll see their September results.

Also, PBLRD lost more members in the last 30 days.

Anonymous said...

While PBLRD lost members, they gained corps. Since corps pay rent, nobody cares how many members there are. That's up to the individual corporations and their recruitment. A 300 man corp is no different from a 8 man alt corp if they both pay the rent.

with MOA though, the less members they have the less they can field against their enemies. While September's stats may be too early to show a significant hit, I'd expect to see a dip in October and a near complete collapse before the year is out.

CFC Grunt said...

"my ships in space worth much less than their suicide gank would cost"

If they really cared, they'd do it anyway - no matter how bad for the "ISK Ratio" it would be. During Burn Jita, empty freighters were blown up just because we could. While much of what is said around the forums and blogs about both sides consists mostly of chestbeating, it's unwise to underestimate an enemy.

What you still seem to miss is a simple fact: Goons, and by extension the CFC, exist to be hated and despised. They exist to be fought and they become vulnerable when at peace. Peace brings tension between alliances and unrest among members.

When faced with something that can threaten them, the CFC initially will take a loss. Their fleets will be undermanned, under-equipped and their FCs rusty. The enemies will cry "VFK by X" and bust out the kegs to celebrate victory.

Until, of course, the CFC adapts - as it always has in the past.

It's also worth noting that the CFC, goons especially, will not let any rules get in the way of victory. Even if gaining advantage means something that was bad in the past is good now - like their rental program.

A Reader said...

I have seen no evidence that the "unstoppable flood" is trying to touch you. They took a target of opportunity when it arose for fun, but I see no evidence of any campaign to stop you.
As I understand running an alliance, a huge part of it is generating content for your members, you don't really provide them any so they'll just ignore you and look elsewhere. This is why alliances fear long periods of peace, people unsub without anything to do, including people who would otherwise lead roams to provide more content or rat to fill corp coffers. Related to this I don't think "capture all of Sov-Null" is Goons win condition, that would mean the end of whatever coalition managed it due to lack of content for the members.
MoA haemorrhaging corps is a bad thing for them, be interesting to see if they survive and how. On the flip side I'm interested to see what happens to PBLRD as it does seem their offer may need some updating to make it more competitive.