The answer to the question in the title is obvious. Goonswarm Federation is a nullsec alliance, having little interest in highsec, except for ganking events and a few idiots hauling and dying in Jita. The GRR project was largely dismissed on the basis of attacking Goons and their slaves in a place they can't care less about.
Since I'm receiving the killboard data in a more verbose format, I re-checked the 2013 GSF kill and loss database, I could run various checks to learn more about them. When I checked system security, I found this:
Sporadic, huh? Random haulers, right? Goonswarm Federation killed more in highsec than the whole RvB everywhere. 29% of their total kills are in highsec, with very high ISK ratio. This is why they were so upset about the GRR project: it's a direct threat to a serious part of their activity.
Goons realized the importance of highsec and sent nearly 1/3 of their power here and created a useful highsec slave alliance. The response of their enemies to this: "highsec lol". It's funny, but not PL or N3 started to fight back in this theater, but a lone blogger, a handful of donators and their hired mercenaries. Wake up guys! Highsec is important. Not I'm saying it, but the actions of your worst enemy. You all saw the creation-destruction graphs. Most of the ISK is in highsec, and "who controls the spice, controls the universe". Of course it's not trivial to get it, but I guess they collect protection racket from haulers profit on ice product speculation and get about a trillion from gank loot.
Anti-Goon nullsec powers must create their own highsec strategy. They have to create their own highsec arm, or find and cooperate with existing highsec groups. Hint: Lemmings could use some support. What kind? Alts, ISK and above all endorsement and official condemning of the highsec slave of the Goons: RvB. It's a bad joke that bored N3 alts are helping Goons gaining control over the farms and fields of New Eden, turning their riches into more titans that kill their mains.
BNI and TEST (Dreddit) both have a large corp, which makes them ideal fighting in highsec due to their logies don't go suspect. I'm absolutely sure that these two could cause much more damage to GSF in highsec than they can in Sendaya. This would be a fitting revenge for Fountain. Goons took it for ISK. You can take a much larger ISK source from Goons!
Update: commenters seem to believe that highsec kills are random acts of lot of random little Goons, so I checked it. Half of the highsec kills (1.76T) were gained by 32 pilots: Warr Akini, Alex Gianturco, eC Cade, Rehtom Lamina, Ikolo, Benchab Mas, Mittani Alexander Gianturco, Proud Brother, Unfortunate Uncle, rackarns, Alexander Mittani Gianturco, JohnCrichton, Gad'ui, Silin Vespula, Furious Father, Beryozka, Sipphakta en Gravonere, Grizzly Baddums, Bob Haldeman, Dungar's Sister, Ministerial Duties, Blacklyche, Gaara's sniper, GubkaBob Mrazish, Angel Logisticus, Eliza d'Alikchi, kaldarinka, Dark Sn1p3r, Kasa Shadowman, Terminal Adtur, Gilles de Rais, Gluttony the Voracious. Seems a pretty organized and focused group to me, doing strategic duty.
You think I just made this up? Then look at the list of kills (click "read more") that have more than 0.1B Goonswarm contribution (true damage) on them. That's 2.82T kills! Their loot fueled the Goon war machine and their tears fueled the Goon heart! Do you leave this theater only to a few enthusiasts? Not like we aren't winning on our own, but a little help could be used!
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PS: Goons are MAD. They published the story of my wormhole eviction on their propaganda site to have a little victory post too. While they didn't link my version or anything, still I have a huge traffic spike from Google with "Gevlon wormhole", "Gevlon evicted", "Gevlon song" and such search phrases. Good job driving your own fans to the site of the enemy you morons!
Since I'm receiving the killboard data in a more verbose format, I re-checked the 2013 GSF kill and loss database, I could run various checks to learn more about them. When I checked system security, I found this:
Sporadic, huh? Random haulers, right? Goonswarm Federation killed more in highsec than the whole RvB everywhere. 29% of their total kills are in highsec, with very high ISK ratio. This is why they were so upset about the GRR project: it's a direct threat to a serious part of their activity.
Goons realized the importance of highsec and sent nearly 1/3 of their power here and created a useful highsec slave alliance. The response of their enemies to this: "highsec lol". It's funny, but not PL or N3 started to fight back in this theater, but a lone blogger, a handful of donators and their hired mercenaries. Wake up guys! Highsec is important. Not I'm saying it, but the actions of your worst enemy. You all saw the creation-destruction graphs. Most of the ISK is in highsec, and "who controls the spice, controls the universe". Of course it's not trivial to get it, but I guess they collect protection racket from haulers profit on ice product speculation and get about a trillion from gank loot.
Anti-Goon nullsec powers must create their own highsec strategy. They have to create their own highsec arm, or find and cooperate with existing highsec groups. Hint: Lemmings could use some support. What kind? Alts, ISK and above all endorsement and official condemning of the highsec slave of the Goons: RvB. It's a bad joke that bored N3 alts are helping Goons gaining control over the farms and fields of New Eden, turning their riches into more titans that kill their mains.
BNI and TEST (Dreddit) both have a large corp, which makes them ideal fighting in highsec due to their logies don't go suspect. I'm absolutely sure that these two could cause much more damage to GSF in highsec than they can in Sendaya. This would be a fitting revenge for Fountain. Goons took it for ISK. You can take a much larger ISK source from Goons!
Update: commenters seem to believe that highsec kills are random acts of lot of random little Goons, so I checked it. Half of the highsec kills (1.76T) were gained by 32 pilots: Warr Akini, Alex Gianturco, eC Cade, Rehtom Lamina, Ikolo, Benchab Mas, Mittani Alexander Gianturco, Proud Brother, Unfortunate Uncle, rackarns, Alexander Mittani Gianturco, JohnCrichton, Gad'ui, Silin Vespula, Furious Father, Beryozka, Sipphakta en Gravonere, Grizzly Baddums, Bob Haldeman, Dungar's Sister, Ministerial Duties, Blacklyche, Gaara's sniper, GubkaBob Mrazish, Angel Logisticus, Eliza d'Alikchi, kaldarinka, Dark Sn1p3r, Kasa Shadowman, Terminal Adtur, Gilles de Rais, Gluttony the Voracious. Seems a pretty organized and focused group to me, doing strategic duty.
You think I just made this up? Then look at the list of kills (click "read more") that have more than 0.1B Goonswarm contribution (true damage) on them. That's 2.82T kills! Their loot fueled the Goon war machine and their tears fueled the Goon heart! Do you leave this theater only to a few enthusiasts? Not like we aren't winning on our own, but a little help could be used!
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PS: Goons are MAD. They published the story of my wormhole eviction on their propaganda site to have a little victory post too. While they didn't link my version or anything, still I have a huge traffic spike from Google with "Gevlon wormhole", "Gevlon evicted", "Gevlon song" and such search phrases. Good job driving your own fans to the site of the enemy you morons!
24 comments:
You think I just made this up?
No, but I do question your conclusions.
For starters - the largest entity in the game kills more people in highsec than a much smaller (and by your own admission largely inactive) entity. News at 11!
Also, you seem to continue to believe your own propaganda. The confirmation bias is strong with this one...Have a good hard look at what the Goon political machine does when it is actually threatened: Mittens starts heckling on twitter, The threats are outed in a SOTG, TMC starts posting pro-goon articles against the threat, the goons go on a war footing against the threat.
Total mittens posts against your GRR project: 0
Total GRR project mentions on SOTG: 0
Total GRR related TMC posts: 0
Total Goon mobilizations against GRR project: 0
You are irrelevant to them.
Almost all the kills you have posted in that wall of text I have examined thus far appear to either be solo kills or suicide ganks. I don't quite understand how you are equivocating "Lots of suicide ganks and solo activity" with "1/3 of their power"
That is, unless numbers on their own are an insufficient means to analyze player activity without context. That couldn't possibly be the case could it?
The only organized high-sec arm of GSF/CFC is Miniluv. Any other kills are members doing things in their own "spare" time. Thus the alliance gains nothing from these kills.
Miniluv pays out 50m to each person for each freighter kill. So 50m to the bumpers, 50m to the scanners, 50m to the dps and so on. In addition, everyone gets free ships handed to them (catalysts, brutix or talos depending on what you can fly). So even if Miniluv racks up a lot of kills, most, if not all, of the money goes straight out again.
ISK killed does not equal power. You say that GSF somehow makes tons of cash in high-sec? How exactly are they doing it? Any real, organized money-making scheme would use out of alliance alts anyway, so deccing GSF does nothing except kill high-sec morons, and maybe disrupt Miniluv, which isn't a source of alliance income anyway.
You have to somehow show that ISK killed in high-sec equals money made(which you haven't), that high-sec has serious income for GSF (which you haven't) and then show how deccing GSF stops this.
This is why PL and N3 and so on don't care about high-sec or GSF in high-sec. They know it doesn't hurt GSF at all. And HERO isn't even at war with CFC, do you really expect them to go to war because of high-sec?
Gevlon, a few thoughts:
2013 highsec kill activity includes Miniluv - a squad that specializes in highsec ganking. It also includes Miniluv's actions in highsec freight interdiction of TEST assets during the Fountain campaign - which, while they occurred in highsec, are decidedly not about highsec, but rather, actions in support of a nullsec sov-grind campaign, analagous to American actions in Laos or Cambodia during the Vietnam War (though, given the results in Fountain, obviously to a different end).
Remove the activity of the Ministry of Love, and see what your numbers look like.
@Babar: why do Goons kill on their "own time"? Because this is that gives them the fun that worth suffering those bombless bomber fleets. Take it from them and they have nothing but the bombless bomber and the paplink.
@Arrendis: thanks for telling me what the post is about: Goons fight their wars in highsec too, but no one bothers to fight them back, therefore they have hilarious K:D in this theater.
I see you're not even trying to answer any of the other questions, which is fine I guess. It seems obvious at this point that you're more than happy to make a blog about something you know bogus, and then partially admitting it in the comments. I guess most people only read the blog and not the comment, so this is probably a safe way of doing things.
People play Eve in many different ways, suicide ganking is just one way. You should know, since you did it for an extended time.
I'm guessing here that most people who make income from suicide ganking are already outlaws in high-sec, in which case there's no reason to wardec them.
So again, how does it harm GSF/CFC that you've wardecced them? If you cannot even make a plausible narrative on how they make money in high-sec, how can you claim that the GRR project affects alliance income at all?
@Babar: you keep separating alliance and member income, like they were separable. A Goon is a Goon, regardless if he is on an op or on his "own time".
A Goon having personal income is a Goon who will fly a dread or even a titan (as it was instructed by The Mittani).
A Goon who lost his stuff is a Goon who will rat it back instead of going on a fleet.
I seriously doubt that ganking Goons are outlaws. Being an outlaw means ganking needs skill and effort. If you land further than 3000m from the target, no gank.
Goons gank with a single cata, warping from belt to belt and slowboating to the AFK miner. When their sec status get down, they go back to nullsec and rat it back.
You do realize that you didn't link the eviction posts from that article, either?
Also, from reading them I see you referred by name, and not as moron, idiot, (insert all insults you usually use).
So comparing those 4 posts, yours certainly makes the largest impression of hatred and propaganda. I've never been a friend of the Goons, but your reputation has become no better than that you accuse them of.
Sad.
I'm openly against Goons and this is my blog. On the other hand their propaganda site fancies itself as a News Site where you can find unbiased articles instead of pure Goon propaganda.
@ Gevlon: but I guess they collect protection racket from haulers profit on ice product speculation and get about a trillion from gank loot.
Did 1T of loot even drop from those high sec kills?
It would also be interesting to see how many of those kills weresuicide ganks/in popular suicidd ganking systems. We already know how easy it is to rack up kills through suicide ganking.
Could you get a graph showing High sec kills per GSF corp ?
I guess the result may be interresting.
Ryanis
@Ryanis
1308 Bat Country
491 Raging Ducks
442 GoonWaffe
237 Enlightened Industries
182 Wildly Inappropriate
168 Thunderwaffe
132 RGSU
92 Eternity INC,
91 Les chevaliers de l'ordre
66 Amok,
61 Merch Industrial
60 4S Corporation
Some more consolidated stats for those interested :
# Kills Corp # Members
1308 Bat Country 207
491 Raging Ducks 249
442 GoonWaffe 4382
237 Enlightened Industries 367
182 Wildly Inappropriate 1072
168 Thunderwaffe 252
132 RGSU 86
92 Eternity INC, 290
91 Les chevaliers de l'ordre 235
66 Amok. 470
61 Merch Industrial 255
60 4S Corporatio 200
Oh and by the way, GSF has a specific high sec division. I guess most of the high sec kills are done by this division, but hard to validate it.
For this to be convincing Gevlon, there has to be more analysis. What are they killing? How? Are these fleet battles or ganks? When did these kill happen? Was it during Jita Burn or the ice interdiction?
The fact that 30 ish (!) pilots had half the kills shows that perhaps most of this is the result from a few individual who prefer ganking as their play style vs a strategic objective (like say, the ice interdiction). You yourself have shown the damage that a skilled and determined ganker can cause.
@LR: yes, theoretically I alone could get half of the kills (130B*12 = 1.56T)
But why would someone randomly suicide gank with GSF flag? Why would GSF tolerate a corp (Bat Country) that does nothing useful but hangs out in highsec doing random ganks?
Here is your analysis:
Uedama 416
Palas 267
Jita 216
Nomaa 204
Madirmilire 162
Reteka 160
Poinen 132
Balle 122
Niarja 122
Josameto 107
While some systems are obvious ganking heavens (Uedama, Madirmilire, Balle, Niarja) and Jita is also obvious, 5 systems on the list are pretty weird. Do you know where Palas is? It's in the middle of nowhere, nobody goes there, except haulers who would go to Aridia or Querious, and the kills happened during the Fountain war.
https://zkillboard.com/detail/32086381/
https://zkillboard.com/detail/31606792/
https://zkillboard.com/detail/31244160/
https://zkillboard.com/detail/32090381/ and many more.
Seems pretty targeted and strategic to me.
Bat Country is the corp that Powers, the leader of Miniluv, is in. He likes to multibox freighter kills, so it's not surprised that that specific corp is over represented.
Palas is like 5 jumps from Amarr... How is that the middle of nowhere?
And yes, Goons have a group in high sec. It's widely publicized, and anyone from the CFC can join them if they feel like doing a bit of organized ganking. Not sure how you get from that to the idea that they are a critical part of goon financials though. They actually keep all the isk they make to themselves, splitting it with involved pilots or buying gank ships and sec tags to give out.
"Goons gank with a single cata, warping from belt to belt and slowboating to the AFK miner"
Nope. We get perfect warp-ins so that everyone lands within 2-3km, since most of the catalysts, if not directly an outlaw, will have faction police on their tail.
Gevlon:
thanks for telling me what the post is about: Goons fight their wars in highsec too, but no one bothers to fight them back, therefore they have hilarious K:D in this theater.
But that's not 'caring about highsec' - in fact, hunting TEST's shipping was decidedly not caring about 'highsec', but rather, caring about enemies.
But why would someone randomly suicide gank with GSF flag?
Because they're in GSF, and like to gank. Why wouldn't they gank on a GSF character?
Why would GSF tolerate a corp (Bat Country) that does nothing useful but hangs out in highsec doing random ganks?
And you have the statistics on how many members of Bat Country are working in GSOL, fueling towers and jump bridges, right? (Note: this is just an example - there are hundreds of ways to contribute that aren't just 'blow stuff up'.)
What exactly did you think we do in between POCO defense ops?
Eat small children?
Dear Gevlon Goblin,
We had a chat in Bat Country and we thought we owed you some sort of ex gratia payment for making us look so effective, and for implying that we were a third of the striking power of Goonswarm.
After a vote we awarded you a permanent invite to join our fine corporation and a heavy discount from the normal joining fee. You are also awarded the Iron Cross, First Class, with Diamonds, Oak Leaves and Swords. Please contact us for delivery of your prize. It is quite large so you should bring a freighter to pick it up.
Many Thanks and much love,
Endie
Goon Inquisitorial Representative and member, Bat Country
P.S. Powers is not in Bat COUntry he just rides on our coat-tails, and your commenter is thinking of Warr "Warr Akini" Akini, founder and leader of Miniluv. Powers can also join, however, for a discount in the joining fee. That way you could be corpies. Sweet, huh?
Oops, part two, since I forgot this:
"Why would GSF tolerate a corp (Bat Country) that does nothing useful but hangs out in highsec doing random ganks?"
Because we run Miniluv, the GIA and whatever I am in charge of. And because as a corp we have the fifth-highest number of supers in the whole CFC despite being a small, small-gang-loving, pvp-oriented, 200-person corp.
@Endie: while you are obviously sarcastic with the "1/3 striking power", it's still true, since striking power is defined as ... power to strike. You killed 1/3 of the stuff that all Goons killed.
And having so many supers has absolutely nothing to do with all the loot from the freighters, right?
Which is the point of the article: Highsec is a goldmine and only GSF had enough brain to send units and spies to it, everyone else laughs it off.
I wasn't being sarcastic, actually: we are very grateful for the PR work revealing how we carry the rest of the alliance, since I'm too modest to point it out, myself. The offer to join bit might be something that you're a teensy bit cautious about, obviously, but no publicity is bad publicity etc etc.
As to how we afford all our supers, it is by our strict implementation of Ayn Rand's thinking: pure Objectivism. Whenever we find ourselves faced with a quandary or a problem, Ms Rand seems to have an answer. The leeches and hangers-on find themselves unable to thrive while only the most capable and effective stay. Who can naturally all find nothing better to do with their lives than grind into multiple supers.
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