Greedy Goblin

Tuesday, December 11, 2012

"EVE is a bad game"

The title is a commonly recited meme. I couldn't do much with it for long, it did not make much sense. I mean for someone who plays EVE it can't be that bad. The MMO and in general the gaming scene has so many options that you can always find something better to play with. This statement is a lie like "didn't want that ship/system anyway". Obviously if you didn't want it, you'd sell it long ago. You wanted it and lost it and now try to decrease the loss by acting like you don't care.

OK, "didn't want that ship/system anyway" is obvious but why would anyone lie "EVE is a bad game"? Is there anything to win by stating that? Obviously there is, otherwise people wouldn't keep telling it. OK, some of them are mindless meme-spammers who repeat any nonsense they heard to be cool, nowadays they are busy pouring milk on their own head, but most people are not such idiots.

"EVE is a bad game" is a clever way of kissing the butt of fellow players. It's a social declaration of love towards them. The full version is "EVE is a bad game but I keep playing it because of you". It's an obvious lie as being with the others could be done without suffering EVE: Facebook and the very chat and voice programs they already use to receive fleet calls and lead fleets are perfect to be with people without playing. If EVE would be bad, they would just exclude the client and enjoy being with friends on Mumble.

The truth is - just like with "didn't want that ship" - is the very opposite: EVE is a good game and they tolerate the others because of it. While I don't question that some people who met in game are really friends or even romantic partners of each other and would stay in touch if the game would disappear, the large social group of "friends" would dissolve in days and no one would miss it.

Of course EVE wouldn't be much of a game without other players. However it's more the PvP setting. Ask yourself: if every neutrals and reds (hostiles) would turn into bots and only the blues (friendlies) would remain players, would you keep playing?

Fresh news from nullsec: Esoteria and Impass are clear from hostiles, the campaign is now complete!

Quick business tip: I spent 307M on broker fees last week, just in Jita, despite my Broker fee is 0.205%. Make sure that your Broker Relations skill is maxed and your rep with the hub corp and faction is high. Literally billions depend on that.

Now the people with way too much more ISK than brain:
Titans serve three purposes: to bridge fleets, to grind structures and to operate in a supercapital blob. If you use it alone, you are an idiot. Like this specimen who DD-ed down a random carrier.
Losing a 16M Stabber in lowsec is normal. Losing a 6B pod in it is not.
To lose a 8B freighter to war targets is bad, right? How about losing a 6B one to the same war targets on the same day?
The story of the tankless 5B Moroses never gets old!
This low-tank carrier had more than 3B in its cargohold when it died in a relatively large battle. Going to PvP with implants in your hangar is dumb!


Anonymous said...

I wonder if you also call a PvE-Shield-Vindicator with 300 DPS tank "tankless" because you usually have a huge buffer or great active Tank on Vindis if you use it in PvP.

PvE Fit <-> PvP Fit

Anonymous said...

"If EVE would be bad, they would just exclude the client and enjoy being with friends on Mumble."

but they do. they hang out on OG Mumble and play PlanetSide2, MechWarrior Online, DayZ, Chivalry, Dota 2, ... only logging into EVE for pings (if that).

Compared to other MMOs EVE's single player experience is just bad, the UI is an anachronism and CCP takes forever to fix bugs. Even the pvp side of things has some serious issues (roam for hours trying to find any fight as opposed to queue up and get an arena match within 5 minutes).

The only redeeming quality of EVE are the "sandbox" it provides and the community that fills this sandbox with life.
Most CCP provided content or mechanics are bad.

Johnicholas Hines said...

In speech, there can be both denotational content and performative content. A mostly-denotational sentence might be "Snow is white" - conveying or claiming a fact about snow. A mostly-performative sentence might be "I promise to be there at 5". This isn't really referring to anything outside the speaker, in the world - the speaker is performing, doing something, by saying it.

Sentences like "So-and-so is stupid" or "Eve is a bad game" seem to have a denotative form, but often actually have a performative aspect as well. The person claiming that Eve is a bad game is saying something like CCP's contributions to the game design is small (as opposed to other players' contributions); they're signaling (performing) loyalty to their players.

Which is just a longwinded way of agreeing with you. Sigh.

Can broker's fees be avoided by doing trades outside CCP's market? For example, among sufficiently-high-ranked members of the same alliance or high-efficiency-trading cartel. Or are the transaction costs (including the administration costs and the risk of being ripped off) just too high?

Ming Tso said...


We say "EVE is a bad game" because EVE is not a game you should pick up if:

you are strictly a casual gamer,

you are not socially well adjusted,

you like quick action as opposed to long grinding,

figuring out IT services is difficult for you,

you do not like to listen or learn from other people.

or you fly what you cannot afford to lose.

People like this comprise about 85% of video-game players in general. So we call EVE a "bad game" so as to drive those who have the above qualities away from this game so we don't have to deal with the fallout that inevitably happens when these people decide to pick this game up and figure out that, yes, EVE is a bad game.

EVE is only a good game if you can figure out how to withstand it enough to learn why it is a good, even great game, which sadly, most people never hang around long enough to get to learn.

Sugar Kyle said...

@Johnicholas Hines

What you propose can happy. I can hand people things for no ISK transferred. People enter into business ventures with each other and have various levels of trust.

However, trust does and does not exist at the same time. In a game where people can, will, and do rip each other off as a matter of course when and why someone would do something varies.

So yes it can happen. It does happen. It is a very normal way of doing things outside and within the interpersonal communities. My CEO for instance will say, "Take this to Jita for me," and hand me billions of ISK worth of stuff to transport. I then arrive, and contract the items back to him.

The total ISK cost is 10k for the basic contract fee. The trust cost is enormous.

If someone asks for an escort for a ship that is a transaction in a way. One in which everyone online gears up to go join and assist.

People will often say that you can't trust anyone in Eve. The thing is that you will eventually come to trust people in Eve. You will trust them with everything that you have and they will pay you back in trust. Sometimes, you will get screwed over. It happens and most people accept it.

I disagree with Gevlon's view that people do not form close interpersonal relationships just because. I'm well known to be highly social and place more value on the friendship I gain with people then the pixiles I play with.

Gevlon has a social circle with Dreddit but he has not entered into the small, close social circles that make up most of the groups in Eve. Many of us would call those circles, friends.

Corporation loyalty is very big in Eve. People become very devoted to the group that they play with.

Bel Amar said...

I think "EVE is a bad game" is something like the comment "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all of the others".

It acknowledges some very real and deep flaws, whilst at the same time admitting that it's the best option available

Gevlon said...

@Bel Amar: Strangely other MMO players aren't in that opinion, actually they are fanboys calling their game great. It's an EVE-thing to play and curse it.

Anonymous said...

"It's an EVE-thing to play and curse it."

Have you ever been to a forum for any MMO? Hating the game you play amongst other players, while defending it against non-believers has been going on since the dawn of the genre.