Greedy Goblin

Wednesday, September 14, 2011

RBG strategies: flag carrier maps

This RBG strategy page replaces the old ones about the two flag carrier maps, as we use near the same strategies. Discuss please in comments. Comments will be cleared when the page gets a serious revision.

As I mentioned it's a strategy page, that is based on the assumption that the individual players skill and gear is equal. It is possible that superior players with inferior strategy win, but it's not the topic here, so comments like "i cud sap 1 hil garrote 1 smoke the thrid owning all u nubs" will be deleted.

Step 1: Our opening move is that we all zerg for the flag on our GY side (avoid using "left" and "right", it's only good for confusion. To come on the left side of the map, you must turn right at the WSG door and also we can be paired against another ally team and then we are horde on the right side). The flag carrier has a raid mark. They can answer with 3 moves on this, all can be seen from the distance:
  1. Ignore us and zerg for our flag. This case we do the same.
  2. They split and some of them attack us. We dismount and wipe them. After it's sure that they are no threat (4-6 only), the flag carrier and one healer goes for the flag.
  3. They all attack us (standard move of "control the mid" /trade guys). The flag carrier dismounts before they could reach us, so does everyone else and position. Keep riding when the FC is on foot is a fail. Pick your target, set your focus target, place totems, traps, AoE heals, frozen circle, send your pet, pre-hot FC, switch off crusader aura. They are 8 or 9 (EFC is either alone or with one healer), we are 10. They are riding, able to open only with instant spells while we can cast spells. We have traps, AoEs, pets on the ground, they don't. They are spread by lag and small movement mistakes, coming in a train, we are in a spread group (don't eat frost nova). We must win. After 3-4 of them are dead, the FC and one healer moves for flag, the rest keeps wiping them. Wiping 8/10 can break their moral, despite they don't have strategic disadvantage yet. /trade people can give up when it happens.
Step 2:Our flag carrier has picked their flag. Step 2 depends on what they did during Step 1:
  1. We pick the flag the same time when they picked ours. The FC leaves in the front door or  tunnel and we go head on them. The goal is not to kill their FC but to wipe the rest. They can't avoid combat and unless they mirroring our strategy, they will go for the FC. So they are focusing on a shield-walling tank healed by all, while their tank and some healers are running away, we focus on their squishier DDs (arcane mage, DD shaman, DD druid). It's no wonder who will win this encounter. Use CC heavily to avoid them successfully nuking the FC. The FC should kite them around the group, priests should grip him away. Let them walk.
  2. Our FC picked the flag a bit later than theirs. We wiped their 4-6 attackers. The group move mid to intercept, the FC leaves on the mid door/tunnel after he seen us moving mid. If we fail to wipe them fast enough (they were 7 with healers), or the FC was slow (all of them hit him so he couldn't run until they wiped) #3 is in effect. The FC must come to the group. The group must also keep in mind that contacting with the FC is more important than intercepting EFC. Again, if intercept is impossible #3 is in effect. We intercept the enemy flag carrier with full group. Unless we are extremely lucky, they had time to respawn, so killing the EFC is not a realistic goal. Deserves some CC, deathgrip and stun, but not more. Kill the rest, focus EFC only if they are clearly wiping. It's the call of the main assist. Don't forget to peel our FC.
  3. Their unharassed FC is on the move back, while ours due to the long fight is just taking their flag, while we are wiping their last attackers. The FC returns on our GY side to the group. We go together to the mid, not even attempting to catch EFC. If their ressing DDs with some healer attack us, wipe them once more.
Step 3: Step 2 ends with our FC is in the mid surrounded by the team, their FC is in their flagroom or near to it with some escort, the rest of them is dead in their GY. The raid leader calls "split", the FC with 2 healers return to the flagroom, 1 healer with 5 DD go to attack the EFC, one DD go to their GY and AoE it to put them into combat when spawned, slowing them down. This step is very luck-dependent. They can res right front of us, before even the GY-guy reaches them, then we return back to the flag carrier in the mid-back and wait. They can res fast enough to reach their own flagroom and save the FC. Then we purposefully wipe and regroup at our GY, our FC comes to us. If we are lucky, they either res too late, or dumb enough to go for our FC instead of defending their own. The GY guy keep as many as possible in combat. When he dies, he resurrects and joins the FC defense.

Step 4: Step 3 can end with we scoring one and starting over. If you are under attack, stop fighting, die and regroup with the rest on our GY side. If they managed to save their FC or they ressed right front of us, step 3 ends with we standing in the mid-back, their FC at their flagroom with escorts, the others are somewhere in the mid. They are closer to our FC than we to theirs, so they can choose to attack. This case we fight as one zerg and wipe them. Remember to CC/stun, focus on squishy DDs, not healers. After we wipe them we split again and go for another Step 3. If they choose to not attack us, but go back to defend their EFC (either in the flagroom or at the door), we send 5 DDs and 1 healer to attack them. 2 healers and 1 DD remains with FC, next to our GY (in WSG, above the GY). These are suicide missions, their purpose is to pin them down in defense while the debuff stacks high enough on their EFC and hopefully waste their bloodlust. We can waste it too, as we wipe and the debuff will be removed. It is possible (and their only chance) that they mount an attack after wiping us. We regroup and receive them on the move. The EFC should kite them in the tunnel/around the building, LOS them while the others are slowing-attacking them. Since we are 10 v 6-8, we will eventually wipe them, the question is can the FC kite long enough to live. If they fail to counterattack and the stacks are already 6+, we keep only one healer with the FC (against lurking rogues), the rest go attack. If they have a forward defense, wipe them, if they are all with the FC, focus on FC with Bloodlust.

I believe this strategy can only be countered by itself, when the two groups go for the flag on the sides and clash in the mid, focusing on squishies. Then the stronger wins. Note that focusing the EFC is wrong as even if you can nuke him, wipe and then your FC dies too.

Tips and fails:
  • Dumb Rambo is bad. Don't run out of healer range.
  • Check the scoreboard! Top DPS enemies are usually PvE geared.
  • Feel free to put on PvE gear when you engage the EFC who has no DD support.
  • Healer standing on the top of WSG can also heal in PvE gear.
  • Grab the rage buff before attack
  • Mass dispel or just dispel Bloodlust
  • Mana burn is nasty, use it and focus on burning priest in non-nuke zerg battles
  • Fights are short burn here. Healers are usually targeted, use 2 resilience trinkets. You can even have full resi versions of 2-gemmamble gear pieces. Long, mana-streching battles are rather common in Arathi and Gilneas.
  • Full rebuff when regroup.
  • Tank be always on the move when they zerg on us, circle around the group.
  • Always nuke the main assist target.
  • When the main assist switches to EFC, rogue shall stun and smokebomb. CC healers then.
  • Use battle standard


Anonymous said...

Excellent work. I'm curious about the change in strategy from before. Is this an evolution of that strategy based on unforseen scenarios/responses from the initial strategy? Or is this a complete re-work? If so, why?

Great work. Thanks.

Sten Düring said...

For WSG, standing by the capture point, in the nook that's LoS from the second floor, is a good place for the FC if you prefer to slug it out.

Any ranged wanting a shot at you will need to clump together, which makes them vulnerable to AoE.

You're standing with your back to the wall, so no attacks from behind. Especially good for a shield tank.

Ground drop heals and other similar static effects are guaranteed to be beneficial for their duration. Your friendly healer could even drop you a personal Lightwell.

Best of all, if EFC goes down, you literally only need to step forward to capture.

Alrenous said...

"Note that focusing the EFC is wrong as even if you can nuke him, wipe and then your FC dies too."

I learned something!
I should have already known, but there you go.

The above is a real strategy. You can tell because there's no way in hell a moron could execute it.

Strategies like this are also necessary to kill (non-WOTLK) raid bosses. Hence, most can't kill raid bosses without communication to boost them tactically.

It seems there's no real rock-paper-scissors on the flag capture maps. In Starcraft 2 and in most other rBGs, you can always win by adapting to their strategy.

Flag capture has a Nash equilibrium.

Sten Düring said...

And I meant 'out of LoS', not LoS, blah, stupid mistake.

Anyway, you force any non-healers to jump down from the second floor, and in all likelyhood the healers as well due to the angle needed for their ranged to get a shot at you,

Mayhem said...

So one thing about them FC maps:

Every good RBG group will have a designated FC. You can check who it is before the match starts by pulling up the BG chart and mousing over the classes. Look for the blood dk/prot war etc.

Most teams have some kind of issue where they refuse to get the flag unless they are the designated FC. Slowing the EFC mid field with most of your team can seriously mess up the other team. Their entire 10 man group is panicking, or trying reeeeal hard to kill your healers, while your FC has already picked up the flag and is on his way back. Because their FC is being stunned and slowed, no one gets the flag. It sounds dumb, but seriously, half the teams you play wont send someone else to get the flag. And if they DO, it's usually some mage that's thinking on his own and is much easier to kill than a 5k resil bear druid.