Greedy Goblin

Monday, July 25, 2011

Average and bad players bear-ly-made it

I rarely do troll HC. And when I do, the random usually gives ZG. But the few times it gave ZA, and I was thinking about a business opportunity: to create a method that allows selling bear runs to bad players.

4.1 with ZA is out for long, and all the good players who bothered to do the bear run did it long-long ago. Our guild also had a team that spent several runs in the first week to get a bear. The top guilds were even capable to sell bear spots to average players.

Here I'm offering something much more practical: average players are selling bear run to bad ones. Practically everyone can get his precious mount except for the truly terrible lollers who pull the instance and die every bossfight.

The plan needs two key players, one with combat-disengage ability (hunter-FD, rogue-vanish, night elf-shadowmeld, mage-invisibility) and one with combat-resurrection ability (shaman, druid, DK, warlock).

Kill the first two bosses (Akilzon and Nalorakk) normally. Don't forget to talk with the captive scouts. Skip the patrol walking at the front door by riding down to the water.

After Nalorakk, mount up and following the tank, ride trough all the trash to point 1 shown on the map and the screenshot. Use the combat disengage ability, like FD, and die. When the adds left combat, mass resurrection. Only one resser and people died far shall accept res, resurrect the rest manually, so they don't get mass res sickness.

Kill the last pack and the boss. Please note that you can't run past the last pack as they join the boss fight if alive. Talk to the guy in the cage, he is at the base of the entry stairs. Then evade the patrol and kill the pack of cats marked by 2 and the screenshot below.

Use water walking ability or swim. Then following the tank ride trough all packs and run into the building. Use FD or resurrection ability (DK/druid must use combat res while alive and the recipient must not accept it until the guards reset).

Kill the last boss and done. You'll have so much time left that one wipe doesn't stop you from getting the bear.

PS: About the Norway terrorist attack, I wrote everything I have to say 2 years ago.


Azzur said...

Why do you need to talk to the captive scouts? It just wastes time.

Another tip: just before accepting the mass res, you can type /logout

The logout in 20 seconds message will appear. Accept the mass res and then cancel the logout. You won't get mass res sickness!

Espoire said...

Neat. I've had a kind of passing want for that achievement for a while now, but since I was away from the game around the time of 4.1, no one who was any good was interested in doing it when I came back. I've assumed I'd never get it (at least, until it's soloable next expansion) ever since.

I can honestly say I would have never thought of this tactic. It's so far out of the ordinary way to do such things that it's not something I'd consider.

I bet if that were a raiding achievement, even normal mode, they'd patch it as soon as people started using it.

lancore said...

We sold bear runs since the beginning of 4.1 for 40k each. It sold quite well back then but I'm not sure if you can find buyers now. Not for that pricetag at least.

We just rushed through ZA as usual without any tricks and right befor the final boss one of our player left and the buyer would join the party. He just had to die somewhere near the boss when we killed him and he got his mount. No need to boost some probably bad players through the whole instance.

Riptor said...

how much would you Charge for a Bear?
I think the old one was "worth" up to 20k which at the time was a lot..
other Mounts in Comparison in WoW could be even more expensive depending on how many Guilds were able to sell them. The ICC Drake we sold for Bids of up to 85k.

How would you calculate the price for this particular Mount?

Squishalot said...

Re: Norway terrorist attack, I'm not sure that the act of running away (as opposed to rushing the gunman) isn't the optimal strategy. It's the prisoner's dilemma strategy, from a collective perspective, but it's not optimal for the individuals who rush, who face a higher probability of dying.

OTU said...

Re; Norwegian madman, would 84 people have died if the fight part of the instinct we all have, hadn't been so thoroughly squashed? Would you prefer a 3-5/84 chance to die or would you like to die crawling through the mud in blind panic as the gunman calmly walks around putting bulets in the sheep? This isn't really a refutation (sp?) of your comment, just an opinion, it just makes me so angry that 84 people had to die because we have been so wel trained to avoid trouble at all cost

Pheredhel said...

@Azzur: that is not really intended functionality though... or in other words: it's a bug.
So While this may save a few seconds or so, it may cost the account.
Not worth it.

Anonymous said...

Jut want to add, the scouts don't die anymore after the bosses linked to them are dead. You can easily run back for them at any given time you want to.

Eaten by a Grue said...

One complication with the Norwegian gunman is that he was dressed as a police officer, and so some people thought he was a rescuer.

But other than that, he had to reload some time, it seems people would be able to rush him then.

But it is easy for us to say. There was mass panic and people did not organize. Perhaps there was no opportunity to organize, as he would rush any group of people together.

Gevlon, this problem is not like the problem of people doing nothing after an earthquake, or 200 soldiers conquering a city. In those situations, people are given opportunities to organize but fail to do so.

Here, there may not have been time to form a plan, and one person rushing would be sure suicide with zero benefit. So everyone just ran or hid.

Squishalot said...

@ OTU - was that directed at me?

If I'm not mistaken, the gunman had several weapons at his disposal (based on reports of his personal armaments). Hanging around and attempting to rush him would have only resulted in death for the first dozen or so, then death for everyone else who tried when he retreats into a defensible position (remembering that we're talking about teenagers vs a trained ex-military extremist).

Anonymous said...

Gevlon honestly cannot understand why the Jews didn;t fight back. At any camp, at any time, the 7,000 Jews could have simply taken over the camp. 50 guards could not stop a rush. "The Holocaust would never have happened if I was there. I would have organised. I could have saved the Jews! Srsly!"

Gevlon also cannot understand why prisoners all over America aren;t breaking out of Prison RIGHT NOW. They outumber the guards 100 to one. If every prisoner in every camp rushed 'em, they'd be free (and armed). And yet they don't.

Why? Why didn't the Jews simply *chose* to WIN when they had 100% chance to do so? Why don't all prisoners today revolt when they have 100% chance to win? Why? WHY?!

Gevlon honestly cannot understand. He is vexed. VEXED, I tell you.

OTU said...

@Squishalot, it was directed at the thought that running away would be better than trying to rush and/or ambush the shooter, he had two weapons (when the police arrested him). a Mini-14 Ruger, and a Glock 34.

A few (supposed)facts; 600 people on Utoeya when it happened.
In one place 40 people was hiding together for a full hour.
The island is heavily wooded but so small you could get across it in 30 mins or less (guesstimates).
As to being trained..he had done the obligatory 12 month conscription in the military..he obviously knew which end of the gun the bullet came out of.

That being said, I realize it's very easy to be a armchair general about this. If I'd been there..I don't know..I hope I would have tried surviving in a 'constructive' way but who really knows how they'll react when someone starts shooting at them for the first time.

I am not sure if I'm going to call the survivors goblins or not, it seems the socials that did try to do something all died but then they supposedly tried by themselves or randomly meeting the shooter.

I'm going to stop now, this is turning into a rant and that's a darn impolite thing to do one someone elses blog.

One last thought; what happens if you use violence, as a civilian, to stop someone from hurting someone?

Best wishes to the ones left behind.

Gevlon said...

@Last Anonymous: the Jews in the camps and the prisoners of a country are not just locked into the camp or prison. They are locked away by the whole society, so to escape, breaking out of the camp or prison is not enough. They need to reach the nearest border of a country that is not hostile to them. To carry it out, they needed to defeat not just the guards but practically the whole police force of the country.

Without chance to get out of the country, the uprising has only ethical/symbolic meaning "we shown them", like the Warsaw ghetto uprisers did.

A terrorist/criminal has no territorial background. If you defeat the terrorist or escape the captured zone, you have won.

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous

You're confusing people placed specifically in a location designed to be easily defensible as well as prevent escape at large.

Prison riots occur. When they do the prisoners overpower the guards. However, very rarely do riots ever break out beyond that.

Prisons are designed with multiple "airlocks" where traversal outward requires permission from someone outside. Yes, perhaps over time the prisoners could overcome each of these airlocks but not before troops or police forces can be put in place to surround and isolate the building.

Compare that to the island. It's not constructed and is relatively neutral as far as terrain goes. Plus the people on the island probably have more familiarity with it than the gunman.

I find the event itself to have a rather chilling social commentary. The social democrats, who generally champion a welfare state that takes care of you, behaved in a way that showed that they were completely helpless.

Trelocke said...

It's known as "shock".

It's easy for a person to *say* how they would react to such a situation, but even individuals highly trained for situations can have this involuntary reaction.

Anonymous said...

So you, unarmed, unorganized, untrained, would rush a machinegun-armed madman?

No. You think anyone's nerves but those of a trained and mentally prepared soldier would stand up to that?
Most of them likely had never seen a gun firing in their life.
Doesn't matter if you're 20:1, if he's got 50 meters of distance, you're all gonna die.
Proven that you can keep going straight after your buddy just got a hit in the head, perhaps 40:1 could suffice.
It's not just a prisoner's dilemma.
It's a prisoner dilemma with no time to react and natural instincts telling you to RUN LIKE HELL.

Malexd said...

Left wingers probably have the most pacifists, they are usually the ones that want to avoid armed conflict. Ironically, some of those kids on Ut√łya tried to talk the guy down. He answered with bullets.

Anyway, never presume you are any different than anyone else. Don't think you can overcome that fear untill you are staring down the barell of a gun.

Azuriel said...

1) While it may be useful to discuss hypotheticals and determine things people can do, what is not particularly helpful at all is to assume a level of balls you have not demonstrated. Until you get that "gut check," as described by military people who actually have been in situations when other guys wanted to kill them, you have no idea about whether or not you would be reduced to a quivering mess, pissing yourself in a corner once bullets and blood start shooting everywhere. For as much as you proclaim to be superior to those unable to keep their monkey brain under control, it is obviously a daily struggle for you, for us, for anyone. Much less trying to keep your shit together with veins full of adrenaline and a mind emptied of anything but blind, monkey panic.

2) There is a difference between knowing you are going to die, and it being merely a good possibility. Before 9/11, everything we had ever been taught about hostage situations was to play along and hope for rescue. Now that we know that the terrorists' goals are to crash the plane and we are going to die no matter what we do, I think you will see the number of people taking action into their own hands will increase. I have not read all the details about Norway, but in a gunman situation you CAN survive by doing nothing, playing dead, hiding, etc. The only assured deaths come from being one of the first people rushing the guy.

3) Heroes are heroes because they risk their life for strangers. There is zero goblin advantage to saving a total stranger's life compared with the risks. Why would anyone run into a burning building that they just came out of? A father running into a burning building to save their child/wife/etc is not what I would consider a "hero" - saving their life is a genetic advantage and a psychological one, e.g. living with yourself knowing you did nothing, survivor's guilt, etc.

Azuriel said...

By the way, people not doing anything after disasters is NOT a function of their intelligence, it is a function of their physiology. You see people stumbling around "being useless" afterwards because they have gone into shock.

Anonymous said...

He was actually about to shoot a teen who had tried to swim from the island, but realized he wouldn't make it, so he went back.
When the murdered had the gun directed at the teen, a 11-year-old boy came out of "nowhere" and begged the shooter to stop as he had just killed his father and that he shouldn't kill more people.

He let both of them live.

I'm wondering why? To mindfuck people? ''I killed almost 100 people, but I let these two survive as the boy begged me.''

Or like... another way to show how controlled he was?
He had a police uniform, so he could trick people into thinking he was there to save them. He told them they were safe as he was a police man, and when they left their hidings he shot them.
Most people never saw him before they started running away to hide, so they had no idea what he was wearing or how he looked like.

Apparently he also took off his police uniform at some point, and then took a boat to go around the island, again tricking people into thinking he was someone else than the shooter.

Also: most of these people were around 15-17 years old. A 32-year-old should be a lot stronger physically.
They were also camping, so their clothing wasn't especially great for combat. Clogs, heavy boots and some in only socks.

I really don't see how anyone could know how s/he would act when put in a situation like this, not even you Gevlon(didn't read your other article, but after reading other comments I guess you stated something like that).

Anonymous said...

Just sold one bear to some guy with 4/5 guild run last week, he paid us 20k in total so 5k per person, totally worth the quick run.