Greedy Goblin

Tuesday, December 14, 2010

20K in 5 days without stockpiles or tradeskills

As I told in previous posts, I am making gold with my usual industry (glyphs) and stockpiled bags for the lot of new worgens. None of these are spectacular. From glyphs I got 10K (5.5K profit), from bags I got 4K (1K profit). I also leveled my professions by crafting items that sell above material costs. Besides that I sold some stuff I found during normal play, nothing worth mentioning.

My girlfriend on the other hand spent suspicious amount of time at the AH. Finally she revealed what is filling her coffers (besides the herbs she gathers during normal play). She does nothing productive there, just:
  • buys small heavenly shard, combine 3 to get a heavenly shard. The 3 small cost about the half of the normal
  • buys lesser celestial essence, combine 3 to get a greater celestial essence. The price difference is sometimes absurd
  • buys green quality armor that tailors, leatherworkers and blacksmiths dump in the AH for 5-10G, collect lot of them, then ask a guild enchanter to disenchant for a small tip. Sell the dust for 50-60G. I can't tell who is the bigger moron here, the one who put the item to the AH or the enchanters who don't buy them
  • savage leather and scraps are converted into heavy savage leather. All it needs is the AH, an LW who works for a fee and bunch of morons who can't count.
I got into the conclusion that in an equilibrium market you must do something productive. Forgot that after an expansion or major content patch the market is far from equilibrium and many arbitrage niches are not yet taken. Such niches exists because of the morons who has too rich and fulfilling real life to be able to multiply by 3 or learn other useless computer game skills.

Go and exploit them!

Facerolling update: I do one heroic a day, provided by the LFD function (queued with full guild group) yesterday it was Lost City of Tol'vir. Two wipes on Siamat and one on the prophet because we had no clue what's going on, otherwise clear and completely safe run with HPs above 80% and mana above 50%.


Foo said...

In this market - your girlfriend may be more productive than the rest of us.

Squishalot said...

I'm not sure if it's to do with the demographics on your server, but on mine (and it could just be an Oceanic, which includes the money-minded SE-Asian community), but prices reach equilibria like that extremely quickly.

Disappointing, because it's harder to make money from AH farming like that.

Re: facerolling through heroics, it's not really facerolling if you're running with a guild PuG, considering that you've got a very specific subset of players. The key question is whether your facerolling strategy works when you're carrying two M&S as well in your team.

BD said...

thnx for tips. the shards and essence doesnt work on my server. it looks quite equal.

the other two i haven't checked out.

the only arbitrage i've noticed so far is saronite ore vs bars.

the ore can still be bought quite cheap, 50-75s each. the bars however have risen quite much in price and can be sold for up to 5-6g each. (2ores/bar)

i have no idea why the demand for bars have increased but so far it works quite well for me.

any idea?

Squishalot said...

@ BD - too many people levelling blacksmithing / engineering, not enough miners around to smelt and arbitrage.

Andru said...

It depends on the server.

I've been running AH scans in between levelling sessions, and couldn't find any such niches.

Heavenly shards were actually cheaper than small shards, the greaters were about as equal to 3 lessers, and there were no cheap greens to buy, all of them being VERY expensive.

I've been making money off Dusts of dissapearence and enchanting vellums though.

Harakan said...

in the last few days i've been buying tons of the fist weapons from JC and disenchanting them, on my server they go off for 30/40 gold each, and they give 2/3 greater essences that sell for up to 80G each

about the "facerolling" of heroics, i personally find funnier to go for a proper group, CC, and wipe when we mess up. And even if i didn't, or even if there weren't many bosses that are not doable with 2 healers (pretty much anything in blackrock, grim batol, many in HoO) the point of heroics isn't to just gear up, it should prepare you to raiding, making the healers relearn their playstyle (since it changed a lot in cata) training the tanks on how to take the least damage possible from anything, teaching the damage dealers how not to be random morons but good raiders. After months of farming ICC with great gear, the buff up, and the mechanics carved in our minds by enless tries on many bosses over and over again, we NEED something a bit hard to shape everyone up, to bring players back on the raiding attitude, where waiping is fine, where you need to execute the fight perfectly, where you have to try improve your own performance on any boss.
Plus, heroics get easier and easier the more gear you have, the more people from your guild you have, and the better setup you run: my friends group is usually me (Dk tank) an Ele Shammy, a Disc Priest and a Frost Mage, plus whoever is online in the guild (else we just pug 1) and with 2 forms of reliable CC (3 when there are elementals, pretty much everywhere) and people who know how to play most of the bosses in any heroic are really easy

Ðestructive said...

Some clue´s to make you some extra gold:

Old meta Gems, the new ones would cost 2k+ to get profit on our server, the whole materials for one old meta gem ~20g sells for 150g+ 130g profit without proc.
Best gems selling: Chaotic Skyflare Diamond, Austere Earthsiege Diamond, Ember Skyflare Diamond, Bracing Earthsiege Diamond, Insightful Earthsiege Diamond and Relentless Earthsiege Diamond.

also well selling with little efford Truegold. Buy up the transmutation cd Volatiles (fire earth and wather) shouldn´t cost above 50g each and 3Pyrium Bar ~300g each at our server. Truegold sells for 5k+ (7k at our server atm). cost: ~2,4k 2,6k sweet income.

Oh yes and keep looking for cut cataclysm green-quality gems that are sold for under 9g. The npc vendor pays you 9g each. I´ve bought up 250 for 7g and less since start cata.

Mystic said...

What I've been doing so far is simply buying stacks of Elementium Ore, prospecting it and selling all the raw gems I can't use for leveling my Jewelcrafting or can't cut into something more useful. In addition to getting my JC skill up, it's generating a nice steady profit for very little work (10-15 min at AH/mailbox a day). The green quality gems that are needed for the daily JC quest have sold for as high as 200g each, and you need 3 at a time for the quest!

It depends slightly on luck, as you can get less desirable prospecting results, but the gems for the dailys and any Inferno Rubys easily offset any loss on less profitable gems.

Riptor said...

That’s what I really don’t get about gemming. By now I can get a Perfect green Hit Gem (+35 Hit) for 35g while the average Blue Quality Gem (+40 Hit) goes from anywhere between 250 and 500g on our Server. Even if I would get it “cheap” I would pay 215g for 5 Hit.
The Meta Gem is even worse. For an Upgrade of around 0.9% Crit Mr. Random apparently is willing to pay 2k.

Ðestructive said...

Gemming is a odd thing. Some think these 5 hit as an example per gem (paid 200g+ for) will get them a good reputation.

I myself would invest 200g for 5 hit rating if it spares me another hit gem to the cap (not wasting 30 hit). of if it is my only chance to reach 102,4% evade as a tank.

But anyway since I´m a JC and my profession suffers from DR I can buy up blue-quality gems for ~50-60g and cut them for myself after I enlisted enough gems for the daily demand. (loosing ~30g)

To gem up as a non-JC I´d suggest you buy up 20-40 raw gems of your usual need and let them ge cut by a fellow JC for 1-5g / gem (he will only see the ~100g income) so you can spare round about 3k-6k gold an pre stock for your raidequipment.

I´d do it now, since the market for raw gems has more stockage than demand, since every JC will only have 2-3 reciepts until now.
Raw gems prices will go up the next weeks.

Zlatko said...

Arbitrage is productive. It corrects prices.

Grim said...

On an item that you expect not to replace until next content patch, 200g for 5 hit is chump change. Those hard modes won't do themselves.

Ðestructive said...

@Grim: But as I stated out you don´t have to pay 200g for the benefit from green to blue quality. I say it is stupid to pay 200g for a benefit you could get less expensive.

I´d prefer to stock up for truegold to get some epic items or to invest into buffood / flasks. You can spare gold on your self-investment getting yourself some room for extras (and if it is more time reading guides/theorycrafting sources than farming). Just because those hard modes won´t do themselves.

add: Oh and I suspect only hardmode raid-items not to be replaced and I don´t think we are speaking of this.

Fumiyo said...

I've done some arbitrage trading with enchanting since the game has started. Bought lesser essences for 20g, sold the greater essence for 80g, so 20g profit per essence. But the market tend to get to equilibrium very quickly; I can rarely sell more than 4-5 essences a day (still, 100g for 2 mins of work isn't bad).

My big money maker has been disenchanting. Dusts and essences are selling for crazy prices. I've been buying up any piece of armor level 81-83 that sells for under 45g, DE it, and sell the mats. I've been making 3-4k g a day. And I've been keeping a portion of the mats to level enchanting, about 5 points a day.

Tailoring has been a bit more of a challenge. I'm trying to level this profession, but mats are scarce and AH prices are very high (8-10g per cloth). I haven't figure out a good way to make money with tailoring yet. I'm thinking it may be best to wait for mat prices to drop, but I'm also worried about losing out on some profits by not selling high-level tailoring gear. I think a bit more research is required.

Ulsaki said...

Unfortunately on my server there's not much room for arbitrage.

Most of my gold so far - about 30K - has been from Truegold transmutes on my main and various alts.

The mats now sell for around 800G, and the bars themselves for 1.4K, after rapidly dropping in price.

Disenchanting quest rewards and selling enchanting vellums has also been quite profitable. Selling the rare inscription items that spawn in the Twilight Highlands has also generated a nice amount of gold.

On my server "Deathwing Scale Fragment" buys for around 4G, and sells for around 60G. There doesn't appear to be much demand for the other items, but I'm hoping that as more people level Inscription that they'll sell.

N said...

I've been making pretty good profits by buying ore, prospecting it to green gems, and reposting them. Five stacks of ore at a cost of ~1000g typically becomes about 3700g. Pretty tidy profit for nearly no effort.

Tonus said...

Don't be surprised if Mr. Moron or Mr. Hardcore Raider are both willing to pay 200+ gold for an extra 5 hit or 2000+ gold for a slightly better meta gem. Questing to 85 generates about 3,000 to 4,000 gold from quest rewards, mob coin, and sellable items. This doesn't take into account the gold you can make from gathering professions and enchanting along the way.

When players are flush with gold, inflation is the likely result. Why wouldn't you pay 2,000 gold for a meta gem when you've made 4,000 gold or more over the last few days without even noticing?

I guess a good post would be to analyze how the market will adjust as players reach 85 and the flow of easy gold via leveling slows or stops. Dump everything now, or wait for player stocks to thin out once they are done leveling professions?

Bronte said...

Nothing wrong with they way the GF is doing it, but for me a huge factor for AH manipulation is the ROTI (Return On Time Invested). I will go for a smaller profit margin if it doesn't take too much repetitious tedious work, and forego one with a higher profit margin simply because too much micro-management is involved.

Matter of preference I guess...

Rob said...

I'm on a mid populated realm, the economy is mostly split up between 4-5 people on horde side and I know them from my previous guilds. All of them had to level because their guilds started raiding 1 or 2 days after the release and so I could pretty much sell alone.

All I did was prospecting, disenchanting, and crafting Truegold,Mysterious Fortune Cards, Adventurer's Journals (you might want to check this one out, I knew it from beta - It has a 4h cooldown and theres a chance for you to get a 10% XP buff. I started selling them a few hours after release for up to 200g) and of course relisting every 30-60 minutes.

I made about 35-50k each day and got all the professions to 525 in the process. I think 80% of the profits were just buying ore, prospecting it, listing the gems. The cards and journals I had to announce and explain in tradechat for them to sell. To sell Truegold I simply whispered people of the topguilds, they were buying as soon as they hit 85 for prices around 5k to 6k.

Prices are freefalling as of today and I'm kinda bored anyway so I'll probably lay low over christmas and start leveling my toons that.

Carton said...

The +5 to hit is a much smaller margin than it used to be. The necessary combat ratings inflate by a factor of 4 between 80 and 85 (~30 to ~120 rating respectively for 1% hit). The value of that +5 to hit is equivalent to just over +1 (1.25) for what we had in WotLK.

Just mentioning this to put some perspective on the performance value of those gems. Ask yourself before you buy say a couple blue quality gems over greens if 0.083% hit is worth a few hundred gold to you. Or even if you it will have a noticeable impact at your performance level.

Sleeper said...

Obviously, the differences between prices on servers is astonishing. About the only thing your gevlon's girlfriend has done on their server that MIGHT net me gold on mine is the, "buy 3 small shards, turn to large shard and sell at profit".

I am personally selling the green world drops and green tailored items for 50g to 200g. The level 76+ Cataclysm greens are GREAT for alts. Not so much for enchanting, unless its BOP of course.

Anonymous said...

Green cuts are going for cheap because they're all skill-ups made while leveling JC. In a couple weeks, the prices on these will settle above the cost of uncut greens. Perfects will be gone before then and will continue to be in short supply. Once the market settles down from lvling JCs, Perfects will command at least 100g / each.

Rares are expensive because they are top dawg and can only be made with recipes purchased with daily JC tokens. The difference isn't worth arguing over. Epics and Rares from Wrath saw the same price disparities.

Hit isn't the best example. Hit should be reforged first to cap - it's a lot cheaper. Any JC who has Rare Hit Gems posted wasted their first precious JC tokens on a cut that will not sell.

Aethryl said...

Hardened Elementium Bars were going for a similar amount more than mat costs on my server for a while at least. I haven't checked recently.

Aethryl said...

If the hunter pulls with his trap the other CCers can start casting their CCs when the trap hits and usually have enough time.

The hunter (if survival, he should be) will also get a free lnl proc from his CC going off (I love CCing!) and can thus misdirect explosive shots on two mobs so the tank doesn't have to cleave immediately.

The Gnome of Zurich said...

I have had a similar issue to what you experienced. I have almost certainly missed the boat on some flips, because I got gunshy. I am now so used to big obvious arbitrages being both rare and moderately risky (i.e. they often get closed before I can finish selling off) that I don't really spend a lot of time looking for them. If I notice something in the course of my looking, I take advantage, and I tend to be very very leery of anything that looks like a huge arb in a market that I'm not intimately familiar with, which of course included all cata markets for the first week or so.

I've been surprised at how the prices have held up on cata mats. I expected them to be going down already, but they really aren't.

One thing that surprised me is some things I expected to be either worthless or tiny niche markets are doing pretty well. A bunch of Wrath enchants are selling quicker and for more profit than they did the last 2 months. Mainly because the cata improvements are so expensive.

Also, wrath gems did not lose as much value as I was expecting. I got stuck with a half dozen purified dreadstones, but I was able to unload them at 30-45g ea. I expected I would end up vendoring any gems I didn't sell before Dec 7th, as happend to me in 2008 -- but I got a surprise from blizzard when they had a 285 ilvl requirement for the new gems.

Anybody else wishing that they could untrain gem perfection? I had to cut *7* nightstones for my daily the other day, because there were no timeless nightstones on the auction house. Except the perfect ones of course, which were flooding it and down to vendor price. There's an extra 600g down the drain (since I can sell nightstones consistently for 150g ea.)

My BoA enchants are not doing as well as expected. Agility enchants sold very well, but that was because I had still mispriced them even after bumping. I went to 299/349 for 1h/2h, but the new equilibrium seems to be 399/449, with the essences going for 75g ea. (at which price I will probably farm them if I can't get enough for <60g).

Very bitter about this essence nerf. A lot of people will go without these enchants now, while at the 100-200g price point they would fly off the shelves whenever I wasn't being aggressively undercut by competitors. I surely made more profit then, than I will now, even though I'm getting 50-100g per enchant instead of 20-50g.

wrath enchants are more profitable than BoA enchants for me now. (still grinding CE rep for stealth, which I'm hoping will be excellent).

Phelps said...

Two things. One, on my server (US-Aggramar) there aren't any cheap greens on the AH. Either they are being snatched before I see them, or they are all going up for insane prices (150g+++).

Two, a lot of AH disenchanters like myself rely heavily on the Disenchant search in Auctioneer, and AFAIK it still hasn't been updated with cataclysm enchanting mats for the search.

Anonymous said...

I'm not a goblin; have 17k gold when I could have 100k. But I made all that in about 2 hours throughout the week Cataclysm launched, by disenchanting AH greens and moving mats around. During launch week a single dust was selling for something like 60g on my server...insanity. People rushing to level tradeskills that won't be useful for another 2-3 weeks. There's another market now; enchants on vellums are selling for 2-3 gold, and I'm sure in a month they'll be closer to reasonable prices (maybe 20-30 gold).