Greedy Goblin

Friday, May 29, 2009

Alting and Hodir rep

I got lot of comments to my post about pay-by-cheat games, defending the model as it allow players to skip unwanted content. Their ultimate example was leveling alts for the n.-th time and grinding Hodir rep. After all we all agree its boring, so it worth paying even real world money to powerlevelers (who will steal your account later) to skip it.

Let's start with Hodir rep: I'm inscribe for one reason, I did not want to grind it. There was an other ingame way so I took it. I did not know that it will bring me 10K G/week, but I have a feeling that if I'd be JC or engineer, I'd still have good money. BTW you can also skip Hodir quests by using lvl70 shoulder enchants. For example the difference between the healer lvl 70 and Hodir enchants is 6SP, 2MP5. Are you sure it makes the difference between Mimiron hard mode and wiping on the gargoyles of plague wing? There is always another way, and with a piece of brain you can find it.

Now let's talk about alts. Important: I'm not talking about altoholics who like playing little alts. I'm talking about those who say "I have to level an alt for this and that". I leveled an alt to level 80, so I know exactly how it feels. I started Koltas a 1.5 year ago, deep in TBC. The reason was simple: I attempted to raid, do harder 5-mans and failed miserably. Not because I healed bad, but because either an add killed me, or it was me & tank after 20 secs in the pull. I found healing simple and thought that everyone can heal, the real hard job is CC-DPS (for WotLK people: CC is when you turn a monster into a harmless form like sheep or ice trap). So I leveled a mage.

Leveling was often boring, although my girlfriend who was CC-DPS (survhunter) started a tank, so we leveled together. It was very fast as we just pulled 10 monsters, she thunder-clapped-cleaved them, and I arcane exploded them down.

If I would use my brain back then, I would find out that if CC-DPS is the hard thing, than my girlfriend would not reroll. And I would have noticed that when she was in the party and the tank could hold one monster we never wiped. However she also had a sound plan: she thought that the tanks misgear for HP while avoidance is better. She had 548 def rating back in lvl 70. It was pretty fun to heal her as she usually had low damage taken. I still remember Nightbane who could not hit her once for 27 seconds and the other healer was spamming "who is tanking? is it bugged?". No. It was 58.5% avoidance. Just like at Gruul's when she was assigned to DPS as "newb with 13K HP", the off-tank died on growth 3 (standing in the stones + hurtful strike + not being uncrushable), she pulled shield and offtanked until growth 14 where the MT died and she shield-wall-ed him for 20 more secs so it went down (and dropped her the shield).

My plan was to play arcane (back in TBC) because it never pulls aggro, has extra armor and have one extra CC: slow. It was fun, the bigest achievement was AoE-ing alone Ilhoof's imps, spamming AE for 8 minutes without going OOM.

Yet we did not get to Vashj, despite the super-avoidance and the insane CC. Actually we kept wiping in Karazhan and 5 mans for AFK healers or idiots who broke the sheep or pulled aggro and despite the mob was slowed did not run but kept nuking it.

Our failure was inevitable. The reason of wipes was not lack of "good tank" or "good CC-DPS". It was lack of other 3/6-8/20-23 good players. Rerolling changed nothing.

After we reached lvl 80, the same started again. We reached 80 with the tank/mage too, with the same effect except it was Construct wing instead of Nightbane.

The problem was solved when I found the reason of the problem: stuck with M&S and fixed it by transferring to a guild that already killed Yogg when I've arrived. The solution for my girlfriend was abandoning raiding completely. She also cannot/does not want to raid 3-4 times until midnight, and she is not making 5K/week to support a topguild. So she is fishing, cooking, chatting a lot and trains newb hunters and warriors. It also had a peak moment: when a "friendly helpful" guild invited her to VoA since "she is so nice and cook for us for free". They told her "it does not matter if you DPS low, you can still raid with us". She was 1000DPS ahead of #2 and told them "that's why I chat, cook but don't raid with you".

Another reason for people alting is having other tradeskills. This is obvious ignorance to the market. You can buy anything you need for the gold you make with the things you do well. It's much cheaper to get gold with your main any ways and buy other tradeskill's items than leveling an alt up and leveling the tradeskill up. Oops, I forgot that the former cost money and the latter is free as "I can farm it". Yeah.

So, the alt you have to level is a wrong answer to your problem. It's "bring the player, not the class" age, and also "kill Malygos in lvl 70 stuff" age, so you can do anything with your current main. If you cannot, a new class won't help. The problem is either lack of skill or lack of time, or lack of ability to abandon those morons you waste your time with.

Leveling an alt faster is not the solution. Solving your original problem is the solution. The low level quests are fun once. No need to do them twice. You don't have to level an alt. You don't have to grind Hodir rep. You don't have to farm 200 Emblem of Heroism. You don't need 10 tradeskills. You don't have to cheat to skip the grind for the things you don't need.

Have you seen the 0/0/0 talent of my mage? No, it's not the flavor of the month for mages. It's the sign that I haven't played the mage since the talent reset. I did not need to. I found my solution. Since then I play much less and have much more fun.

PS: I do only the following things in WoW, nothing else:
  • raiding, once a week, 19:00-22:30
  • making money
  • yet untold experiment
  • leveling a warlock-shaman pair with my girlfriend, they are unguilded, it's "just us" time, doing only the quests we like or have never done before.


Townes said...

As one of the Hodir-example-givers, I agree with you 100% about players who don't play alts for fun. I play mine for fun. You can get some variety by changing spec. You can learn a class much better by sticking to one. But I like playing them all, so I do. Only 2 are 80, but most are at least 70, so you can imagine the repetition that was involved.

I really like your point that you bring the problems with you in any class. Your problem was incompetent raiding partners. Mine is more like being one of them - I stand in the fire more than most, and let those eyebeams get me a bunch of times first 2 tries on Kologarn. I also do crappy dps. As a mage, as a hunter, I can have the same gear as someone else, use the same rotations they do from elitistjerks, and do way less dps. I have no clue why unless it's being old and having slow reflexes. Healing, at least if I keep someone alive nobody is paying much attention to numbers.

I totally agree about the shoulder enchants, also. I loved your original post about "good enough" gear. I don't like that it's expected to grind out Hodir rep, as if that or a belt buckle will make a difference. But someone out there is applying to a raiding guild that expects them to be exalted with Sons of Hodir with their alt.

Tal said...

Saying "you don't have to level an alt" is entirely skirting the issue. If someone likes raiding, but wants to try a different role, they have to roll an alt. It has nothing to do with whether or not they are successful. Even a main tank in Ensidia might want to try healing somewhere.
Now, it's true that people often have other choices than grinding (as with Hodir rep, as you mentioned) but there's no getting around leveling.

Kreeegor said...

First - for your girlfriend - there is strange phenomenon on my server - there are lots of good 10 man guilds and very few good 25 mans. So indeed 10 mans are forming as a progression path. because 10 mans are easier right now schedule is like that - clearing naxx for 3 hours one evening and bashing heads in ulduar some other evening for 3-4 hours. Since naxx are gearing runs she could skip them so for one night of ulduar she could down few bosses and still see some raiding. Btw - very good measurement for a guild is the wipe recovery time. If its less then 3 minutes - its a nice place to be into.

For rolling an alts - my warrior was my main. It was created with the sole purpose of being tank. And it was. Then I leveled DK and fell in love - while the warrior feels clumsy all the way when tanking the DK flow was smooth. It came natural, it was awesome. Before the nerf DK posts come - the main problem with DK is not that they are overpowered atm - its because they are product of 5 years of learning experience from blizzard. They are extremely versatile using very modern mechanics that work great together. So dk is my main tank. But then I wanted healer - leveled paladin to 80 (very fast but very boring gameplay) and its healing style was just not for me. Tried druid - around lvl 60 found out its just not meant to be. Priests are too much fun shadow to be wasted on healing - so I level shammy atm. I have done the quests lots of times. I know them by heart. And I still would prefer to be able to skip or burn trough the content to maybe 58. You waste too much time in Azeroth just running around with almost no killing things involved.

Manchego / Ribeye said...

Well, I might know a thing or two about alts (check the URL!); I've got 6 x 80 already, and 3 more toons at 76, 71 and 71 (plus a level 1 bank alt).

It's not so much for anything other than the fact that I'm a bit of a completionist - I actually enjoy having everything available. Someday, I'll get them all geared up to a suitable Naxx-25ish level (but for 2-3 raiding toons whom I'll focus on higher marks for).

The fun for me is being able to switch out between any class at my discretion. If I want to tank an instance as a Paladin, Warrior, Druid or DK - I've got that option. I can Heal as a Shaman, Paladin or a Druid as I see fit. It keeps things more interesting to me, since I'm not spamming the same spells and keys every time - and frequently, I might have a whole different approach to a given fight dependant on the toon.

It also allows me access to every profession. Way back when I rolled these toons, I mapped out who was going to be what. Now, after it has all come to a head (more or less), I have my own little sweatshop. It's interesting in that it allows a lot of options for what do to with farmed materiel.

Lets say that I spend an hour or two (yes, I know it's not 'Goblinish', but anyhow) flying around Sholazar with my Engineer / Miner. I'll finish up with a bunch of Saronite, and Eternal Fire / Earth / Shadow, plus some Titanium.

I can send the ore, shadow and earth off to my Jewelcrafter. Prospect the ore, cut the gems. Turn the eternals into Shadowmight Rings - then send those to the Enchanter. She'll make scrolls - supplied by the Inscriptor from the DE mats on those rings. Maybe I'll turn some of the Ore into Arrow Makers (almost 2x profit vs raw ore), or make some Savage Cobalt Slicers on the Blacksmith (who also whips up an extra Titansteel Bar) with some spare cobalt - or I can do any of a number of other things.

It's got a lot of options, and it took me a lot of time to cultivate - but it's so very handy to have it all in-house, where I can just mail goodies from A to B, log off / on and do my thing.

Understandably, not everyone has the patience for this kind of thing. I'd be willing to bet that less than one player in 1000 has 9x80 toons, which is where I'll be in only 22 more levels. If you're crazy enough to do it though, it's rewarding.

Lastly, no - I don't spend all day on the game; usually, about 3-4 hours; sometimes more, sometimes less. It's just about a lot of patience. :)

Alfonsius said...

"(for WotLK people: CC is when you turn a monster into a harmless form like sheep or ice trap)"

Haha, that made my day :-)

Catalin said...

Two reasons you have omitted why people level alts:

1. To experience a different part of the PvE game. I have 2 ranged DPS, a mage that's almost 80 and a hunter. Raided with the hunter a lot in BC. No longer a hardcore raider, once I'm satisfied with the gear on the mage I'd like to experience the "in the face" style of playing, so I'm thinking to level a warrior or perhaps a paladin for some PvE fun. Heroics at 80 is the aim for this char.

Do I have to start another alt? Absolutely not. I can pew pew just fine, and love both my hunter and my mage. But I'd like to try other play styles too, and see what's the fuss about with paladins being OP :)

Would I enjoy the old school slow leveling? Maybe for the first 10 levels.

Would I buy powerleveling? Absolutely NOT! But I'm happy to know RAF is there, and the shoulders, and the nerfed XP pre 70.

And reason #2:
PvP. Sometimes the "let's go melt some faces" mood kicks in. I'm terrible at PvP on my mage, but quite decent on the hunter. Did a lot of PvP on it in BC and had great fun.

At the same time, I'd like very much to explore the side of healing in PvP. So I might reroll a priest for the sole purpose of experiencing how's to heal at 80 in the BGs and arenas.

Would I enjoy to level it to 80 again? Probably not, my goal with this character is only to heal in PvP.

Would I buy a powerlevelling service for it? Absolutely NOT!

But again, it's comforting to know I can use RAF and shoulders, and the nerfed XP to get to my goal faster and experience the part I'm interested in.

Just my 2c.

chaoskas said...

Those level 70 Enchants need Scyer/Aldor Exhalted. And it is much cheaper to get exhalted with the hodir than with scyer / aldor.

I play alts because I like to play alts. I got all tradeskills to 440 because I was sick searching for someone who can craft me XY and not try to steal my mats.

Si said...

Another option for shoulder enchants is the stone keepers shards option which is very easy to get each time you get a shoulder upgrade (you can get the shards in one successful WG run these days)

As I rogue the only thing I lose is a bit of crit rating and as im not a hardcore raider, im more than happy to lose 15 crit rating (or whatever) in exchange for not having to grind rep.

Anonymous said...

I think leveling an alt or mutliple alts just enough to skill up tradeskills so one can enlarge his portfolio of goods he or she wants to sell in the auction house is ok. Currently I have two old TBC chars with one I skilled BS to max and with the other alchemy transmute mastery. So I can produce cheap metas and eternal belt buckles. Of course I could search for a BS or alchemist and give him a tip, but I don't wanted to spend the time to find one, so I used my twinks for this purpose.

Molinu said...

"that's why I chat, cook but don't raid with you"

That right there has to be the most epic win comment I have ever seen. Wow. Nicely done.

Anonymous said...

grinding Hodir rep to honored (which will give you the exalted equivalent of TBC shoulder enchants) is ridiculously easy. All you need to do is finish the chain in its entirety and turn in some relics. The advantage of buying Hodir enchants over TBC exalted enchants is in paying gold vs dust/runes and a much easier rep grind, in case you happen to reroll.

The advantage of having alts that can craft everything you might need is convenience of getting it when you want it. AH doesn't always have items that you need available, and looking for a crafter in trade can take a few minutes or over an hour, depending on your luck and time of the day.

Dan said...

Here's my take on leveling alts: Contingency plan. What would happen if Druids were nerfed to oblivion and the tradeskills on your druid were no longer profitable? Granted both may never happen simultaneously and highly unlikely Inscription will no longer be profitable, but that's why I have each class on my realm and faction to 62+, many of whom have Grand Master professions.
My decision to level alts was made early on based on if any of them would increase my chances of doing what I like - raid at the higher end of the spectrum (I was stuck in Kara too in TBC, I know the feeling).
I've been leveling some of my alts to 65 so they can have access to grand master professions as needed for business reasons. Recently I've found that the enchanting material market has been drying up, specifically on Infinite dust. Having other GM professions available can make up for one market drying up; thus I'm working towards diversifying. Granted that if all my markets are making money, it will take up a much larger portion of my time each day to work them.

Anonymous said...

damn your gf sounds like a stuck up bitch.

you two must be very happy together.

Carra said...

Part of why I took inscription was not to have to bother with the hodir stuf... I never enjoyed those grinds. Back in TBC, i was happy with the honored shoulder enchant. I did not want to do the grind for the marginal upgrade.

And yes, you don't need to level alts for their tradeskills. The gold you put into levelling for example their alchemy will buy you a lot of potions.

But levelling alts is fun. I'm just waiting a bit until I forget about TLK new stuff. Too bad there are so few zones, I've done all zones except icecrown while levelling. And an alt gives me a new way to raid and do instances at top level.

joost said...

This post was definitely worth my time! I remember leveling my profession because at high level it was worth it and cool and It will bring me money, not :P. Then still I like having all professions in just a re-log after all money is there to spend. But again this post was a good reminder. ps: Gevlon do you have a Gold per hour rate for yourself? I do to keep reminding me w/e I do is not free. I could be working for real money that time if I made gold smarter in wow.

POINT TO DISCUSS: Spending rl money for wow gold is worth it IF:
The time cost u spend ingame to get XXX amount of gold is > then your rl rate/p hour.

Honors Code said...

Avoidance tanking wasn't a great idea in tBC, and with diminishing returns, it's a horrible idea now.

Check out for some excellent Tanking theorycraft for Warriors, Paladins, Druids, and Death Knights.

ZachPruckowski said...

With regards to Hodir Honored vs. Aldor/Scryer Exalted, it depends on a few factors:

1) If you already played the character in TBC, you've already got Scryer/Aldor rep, probably at or near exalted.

2) If you're just now taking the character through Outlands, you can get pretty far into Scryer/Aldor rep while doing their questlines/grinds while leveling, especially if you go to SMV/Netherstorm at like 65.

3) If you're already through Outlands and don't have Scryer/Aldor rep, then Hodir rep is easier/cheaper to get.

Outsydr said...

I have a mage as my main, and our guild was having problems finding healers for casual heroics/raids, so I rolled a Paladin. Yes, I am guilty of "I need to level an alt because I HAVE to heal for various runs. But after I got the hang of healing (and remembering to train Holy Shock past level 1) it became a fun alternative to DPSing. Having access 2 other profession is a plus.

I can definitely see your reasoning for not leveling an alt for the sole purpose of doing xyz, since time is valuable. However, you can only benefit from those who do believe this. After all, they'll need glyphs right?

Heywood Djiblomi said...

Creating and leveling alts for additional trade skills isn't necessarily about having skills for MY use - it for having additional avenues of market exposure. Blacksmithing, jewelcrafting, enchanting, inscription, leatherworking, alchemy (tailoring/engineering are the crafts I don't have at the moment - at least not at a highly profitable level) all provide opportunities for profit. I don't play all of those markets, all of the time, but as one market's margin shrinks, I can move into another until it returns to "normal". There aren't any slow periods for me, only spending more time in one of my "subsidiaries" that are part of the greater corporation.

Heywood Djiblomi said...

@Manchego/Ribeye: WTB "Altoholism 12-Step Program" achievement! AMIRITE?

dozenz said...

I don't think that the main examples supporting "pay-by-cheat" had anything to do with rep grinds like Hodir, or other similar grinds, but more of "I just want to get a guy to the point where I can do those grinds".

I'd love nothing better than to start an alt at level 80 with no gear and littel gold. I wouldn't reroll thinking ti will make my guild all of a sudden Yogg-Saraon killers overnight, but it would at least open options that Dual-Spec does not help my guild with.

I am a warrior, main spec DPS (3k+) and alt spec Protection (can tank 10 man Ulduar no problem). Most guilds problems is in having barely enough tanks or heals, which is why I made an effort to properly gear up my alt-spec (even before dual-spec was talked about).

If we're down a healer than we either ahve to wait for one to log on, or PUG that. If I rerolled a healer alt they could sub my DPS or Tank spot and I can

However my priest will probably never get to 80 since I'd have to level him in my spare time in-game. Doing nothing but leveling is painful...if I have to do it in the few hours each weekend that I can log on to do wahtever than it would drive me to quit the game in frustration.

So let me "pay-by-cheat" and it will easily solve our problem, which granted could be solved by recruiting a few more. But my argument is that one option we can control (me having warrior/priest toons that can fill the spot easily)and one we cannot (the recruiting).

Putting no restrictions on the recruit still does not guarantee we can find one immediately and would open the door to problems like is he geared, is he good, can he even log on when we actually raid, does he want to raid. Putting proper restrictions make sit that much harder to fill.

Again, I chose being able to control the situation rather than throwing it up to chance.

Yaggle said...

Back in BC, my main was a leatherworker and I was doing great making money. But then I found out how I could get primals almost for free with alchemy transmutes so I felt I should level up an herbalist/alchemist. And of course I wanted a tailor/enchanter to make my own bags and enchant my items since I hate spamming trade channel for enchants. Then I made a warrior and thought engineering would be more fun than blacksmithing, and also could get me some extra motes by extracting clouds. So I levelled them all to 70 also with max tradeskills. And it was hard but was pretty nice to have the self-symbiosis of all those tradeskills. Then WOTLK came out and I had to level them all to 80 again. And that's when I could not take it any more and I was miserable. Other than my LW hunter, only one I kept was the warrior with engineering. I made him for the correct reasons: warrior because I wanted a warrior, and engineering because it was fun. And so then it turns out I wasted all those hours levelling up the shaman with herbalism/alchemy and mage with tailoring/enchanting. Because really the mage and shaman were never for me, but I forced myself because I wanted access to all those tradeskills. For many hours I forced myself to play through my misery before finally it was too much. So yes, I agree, it sounds like such a great idea to create an army of tradeskillers, but, it can ruin the whole game for you in the end. P.S. I started tailoring/enchanting again on my druid but I actually like druid also. I would never again try to maintain more than 3 characters at max level/tradeskills. Even then I think that is a lot. It's easy to get carried away with this game and have your perception of what is normal become skewed by ambition.

Syd said...

I liked this post. It's good that you made a distinction between alts for fun and alts because a person wants a chance to raid.

There are some times when you might reroll to raid.

A warrior or paladin tank might reroll DK just in case they continue to be as dominant as they are now.

I'm working on a priest with an eye to the next expansion--I might want a little change, and that would give me a third healing option (one I've always liked, but never leveled).

However, anything I do on my alt is fun for me. It's like a single-player game because I'm unguilded and I always loved those. I can pick up and leave off any time I like.

Unknown said...

A piece of advice for having a powerleveling service and your statement being incorrect...

In order for them to not "hack" your account, you have to be smart about it, although costly. If your time is more valuable than the monetary cost then it is advised to create a completely separate account just for powerleveling.

I have two accounts, one that contains my main and one that is used for powerleveling. I have the leveling service use the other account and after they are completed, I transfer that toon over to my main account. This allows for me to see their progression with my other account and also play my characters on my main account in parallel.

The bottom line is to protect your investment of time in your main account by having two. Obviously this does cost more money but it is valid for someone that has money and values their time more than the cost of the service.

Grimstout said...

Just want to say thanks for a great website. While common sense, I didn't think about many of these money-managing ideas before.

In the last few days, I've created several spreadsheets that account for the cost and income of my businesses and found that my level 30 can make 20g/hour in skinning. That's not huge, but as a start it's a big deal for me to know where I can get money and how long it will take me to reach a goal.

Thanks, Greedy Goblin!

Anonymous said...

@ Honors Code...avoidance tanking WAS TBC. Why do think they added diminishing returns in WotLK? Did you ever step into Sunwell? Have fun with that stam stack tank on Brut, wait he got rolfstomped again because he didn't avoid...

MyName said...

As far as tanking goes you need a mix of stats and you also need to gear right depending on the fight. If you're tanking a heavy hitter, then lots of armor/block and some avoidance are good, but if you're tanking a magic dealer then you need stamina (or resistance in a few special cases) and avoidance doesn't do anything for you.

I had 3 lvl 70 raiding toons in BC and I have 3 lvl 80 raiding toons now. I think the reason why I leveled the ones I did to 80 was because playing the same thing over and over gets boring. My first 80 was a mage and it is very fun to play in 5 mans but once you start raiding you end up with nothing to do except follow the DPS rotations and avoid the "fire". That's why I liked the High King Maulgar fight in BC I guess. I also have a Priest that heals and a Druid that's specced for tanking or healing. I think the druid is the most fun to raid on but the priest is the better healer.

As far as trade skills go, I'm starting to agree more with Gevlon, especially as I realize that mining and herbalism are completely wasted if you have the money to go to the AH. I rolled a DK to do the inscription thing (though it didn't take off until 3.1 when I got one of those glyph books and could see how much money was there to be made). That being said, I think I'm making as much money off of JC/enchanting as I am off of inscription ATM (and I post hundreds of glyphs a day).

There is some advantage to being able to cherry pick the most profitable markets in different professions instead of being stuck trying to make money in the marginal ones.

Carl said...

I've made thousands of gold just arbitraging relics of ulduar for people who want to pay their way to exalted and skip grinding dailies. When prices stay low, I turn in my overstocked relics to get my own rep up. It's like win-win.

Anonymous said...

My reasons for leveling an alt is so i can experience the game from a different view.
i figure there are 4 main roles in WoW: tank, melee dps, ranged dps, healing.
There are sub-groups to each area, but those are the areas. I rolled a warrior tank first. With dual speccing, I can now either tank or melee dps. I wanted to experience the other two. So, I rolled a Shaman. If I would have rolled a druid first, I may not have needed another toon (can they do all 4?)

Anonymous said...

I'm altoholic and a dualboxer.

Friends always ask me why I don't do dailies. My main has Hodir at honored and I haven't bothered since. I answer: I did the Shattered Son Offensive grind on SIX characters, three of which were healers, one was a tank, and it sucked. I have no interest in doing dailies for rep grinds ever again.

Needless to say, my point in posting here: I fully support pay-by-cheat stuff. I wish Bliz would let us pay gold/whatever to cheat our way through getting things we want: I'm sick of farming ZG for a tiger mount, I've been farming it since classic. I've been farming Pally T2 since BC. Let me throw money at the problem already.

RAF is a pay-by-cheat feature and I'm highly considering five-boxing for entertainment. I'd love to see it one step further and let players grant their alts levels based on criteria, such as the number of months their subscription has been active. Veteran rewards, like CoH has.

Vyr said...

@Townes: It is not the gear. I accidentally equipped my full PVP gear on Maly and outdps everyone in my guild. I sometimes wear wrong gear or just removed 1-2 piece of gear in ulduar (by accident) and still top dps. I am pretty sure I can now go 3 piece naked and still be within top 5 of the dps meters (25 mans of cos)

Talking about same rotation from EJ forums. I once had this long discussion with a fellow warlock raider in my guild. We have 4 raiding locks. 3 of us were like top 5 always, except this one lock. He was always struggling to break top 10. His gear definately isnt the problem and his latency is only 200 to 250ms. I raid with 550 to 800ms. So we had a little chat and he says he dont understand why his dps is so low (took him like 2-3 months before asking for help). He says he is happy to get into top 10 in the meters. After some chat, the next raid, his dps is now within the top 5.

Gear plays a small part. Rotation and spec is important. But even having same rotation and spec, there are many other things you can improve upon.

Probably 1 thing I can ask is, are you spamming your skills to account for the latency? If not, get an addon like Quartz.

Manchego / Ribeye said...

@ Orgauth -

You ain't kiddin'. :)

I know it's more or less absurd, leveling an entire stable to 80. Not much I can say to defend that... But you know, once they're all more or less there - it's pretty darn rewarding. I love that somone can put a comment up in /G (or LFG, Trade, whatever) asking for someone to run Heroics / Raids, and know full well that I've got someone I can log onto that a) fills out the necessary role in their group, and b) doesn't have an ID for the day / week.

I kind of side with what Dan said, too. BC, Rib was my main, and he was a tank. I'm so annoyed at Druid tanking now that I've hardly used him in that capacity since WotLK - I use the Paladin, and I'll soon use the Warrior as well. Getting the level to 80 is the hard part. Gearing is easy - and fun.

Plus, seriously - it's really nice to be able to experience different flavors (tank, melee, ranged, heals - basically) on the fights, and sure as heck helps you to understand the mechanics better once you've seen it from a different point of view.

Anyhow, apologies for being totally off-topic on this second comment w/ regards to moneymaking, etc. I'm just an unabashed altoholic :)

Jacob said...

Great post which I completely agree with.

Only thing that I can think of to level an alt is to level a rogue for the insane achievement. This is what I am doing now. I have been trying to buy the heavy junkboxes from other players but there are just not enough farming them. As well as most rogues in the late 50s/early 60s doesn't know there is a market for the junkboxes. There is neither any way to put them on ah. So my solution is to roll a rogue myself, grind 1400 junkboxes and pray its the last grind that is not directly for reputation I have to do!

Rob Dejournett said...

At this point i havent played my 'main' in a year or so, i have 5 toons above 70. For me its about fun. I wanted to experience healing and tanking, which i could not do on the hunter. THe only way to do that in this game is to reroll. Now, i think its a stupid mechanic,but lets face it, without such a mechanic i would have stopped playing years ago.

Sometimes i think Gevlon and i come from different countries; i play the game to have fun, he plays to do better than anyone else.

Fawr said...

Personally I have a bunch of alts for the professions.

I find that on my server each money making opportunity I identify will only shift a few crafted items per week. So my gold/played time ratio is good, but my gold/week ratio is bad.

Having extra trade skills lets me find more of these opportunities allowing me to spend a bit more time to aid my gold/week.