Greedy Goblin

Friday, January 23, 2015

Yield fit

I'm still coughing badly, but finally, I could pre-write a scheduled post. Also could trade without misclicking.

There is a weird thing in EVE called "yield fit". I'm talking about the miners filling the CODE killboard. And the ratters with rat-specific resists. And the missioners with bling fittings. They sacrifice their safety for maximum income.

Why are they morons? Because their income is still crap. A solo miner witht Orca boosts can make like 20M/hour. A mining missioner? Twice as high. Or think of the L4 mission runner who puts 1B bling for 10% more DPS. But doesn't move to a SoE hub for 100% more LP value. They optimize the last % out of something irrelevant while ignore something crucial.

While doing mining for "fun" is defendable, mining for ISK is not. If you mine for fun, putting yield modules to every possible slot doesn't matter. The gameplay is the same. If you want ISK you shouldn't mine. Unless you fix the income with insane multiboxing.

When you see a "yield fit" Hulk in a belt, or a rat-resist-bling fit Empire faction missioner, you see a dumb social. He reads up the technical issues of his activity, but doesn't question the activity itself, since all his "friends" (random dudes who clicked the same local chat corp advert) are doing the same thing and they must be right. I mean he is aware that some of them are a bit worse miner than other, but they are all miners, so mining can't be wrong. It is.

They make up weird explanations like "without miners you'd have no ships". This is so common that it got on the miner bingo. Or "if everyone would go to SoE, its LP would be worthless". Both are factually true, but irrelevant, because there are so many miners that if you would quit, no one would care. Also, everyone doesn't go to SoE because "everyone" is dumb, contrary what socials believe.

Don't be like them. If you are in the field of few % optimizations, you already mastered that activity and time to move up.


Provi Miner said...

mission specific resists is far different than empire faction fitted bling (that was the first clear error) . One thing you got partly right was the faction mods being not worth it. Yeild fit is fine as long as you understand what you are giving up. There was cool chart showing how many cats to kill something, but as you have pointed out, as long as your ship is dirt cheap and you don't have implants you are not a high priority target. So many variances I don't even know where to start. You do better multi boxing 2 miners in retrievers than to us a solo hulk with orca boost (more yield and supremely cheaper). missioning as I have mentioned before is not a simple as you want to make it. I am thinking that SOE is not always top of the chart you can find those items which others are not willing to do and do better than SOE (not much and not consistently but generally slightly better).

Provi Miner said...

oh I almost forgot expect provi to pick up its kill numbers against goons they are playing games in provi so should be some decent kills starting soon might even show up in your jan recap. If it continues you might want to think about throwing some isk at various SRP programs down there.

Gevlon said...

SOE is always, always better than Amarr, Caldari, Minmatar and Gallente.

Goons go to Provi for "good fights". I won't pay for giving them that.

Anonymous said...

Than you don't want to educate and widen their perspective, because you don't have bot equivalent prices on the market without them.
We all need M&S. without them no juicy bling targets. without them no mindless dumped prices of minerals.
Like in RL, ad revenue is made by laughing at people who the majority thinks stupid.

If you are in the field of few % optimizations
than you
* wont mine solo without boosts
* wont mission in a 4b fit instead of using the ISK for easily 3 accounts in much cheaper fits
* wont haul with a pilot in a wardeced corp/alliance -- or read how RF&Co do their hauling
* wont use SiSi to learn specific game mechanics before using them in TQ. And therefore use stuff blindly from a guide written 5 years ago.

the list goes on.
without the stupid your blog wouldn't exist.

Anonymous said...

Mining is low isk because of ISBoxer and broadcasts. this will be the case for awhile ... I Suspect that minerals will go up in price due to fewer bots in highsec and that will make the new player mining operations more safe.

If i tend to mine il do mine ABC in nullsec ... drop 3 accounts in to the ore site with rorq. booster while my friend runs 3 others and a hauler back and forth from the station and an orca for storage between cylces from the hulks...

worth it ... not realy it keeps my minerals need down a bit when i am building items (in nullsec)...

Mining is a social thingie ... you mine you talk to the other player (TS) and drink a beer. ... between fleets and having fun....

Mining is never competative compared to running Missions or running Anoms ... Anoms is always easier .. hell you could even just AFK do them in a Ishtar if your boored ... sure you lose a few but there is 0 risk if you do it correctly ... so mining & watching a movie or AFK-anom:ing and watching a movie .... same shit in my book... PvP is the only thing that makes this game fun. Market can be easily botted (its not uncommon for market bots to be banned now and then).

Anonymous said...

My isk/hr list (including time spent for all preparations and necessary procedures until idk hits the wallet). Most fits used were cheap dirt. The only pimp was 1-2 fact dmg mods/cheap dead space resists/cheap dedspace booster.
Active clicking:
Highsec l4 soe ~90kk/hr
Highsec pimp bs incursions ~130kk/hr
C2-c3 WH anoms farm ~150kk/hr
Lowsec dw l4 ~300kk/hr
Null npc l4 ~350kk/hr
Lowsec l5 ~500kk/hr
C5 cap esc farm ~700kk/hr

Passive clicking:
Afk-venture с32 mining ~ 50kk/hr per window
Semi-afk 0.0 anoms running ishtar ~ 80kk/hr
Hybrid polymers production ~150kk/hr
C4 r4 pi ~200kk/hr
Lowsec trade hub multitrade (250+ orders) ~300kk/hr

Choose your idk per hour, choose your risk-vs-reward. Or use some brains and go for nice and hot isk. Still wondering why people undock exhumers when its possible to do tenfold isk with a bit of imagination.

MoxNix said...

"SOE is always, always better than Amarr, Caldari, Minmatar and Gallente."

Except of course SoE mission runners are prime targets for gankers. A lot of mission runners don't like doing SoE missions because of that.

Unknown said...

@MoxNix "Except of course SoE mission runners are prime targets for gankers. A lot of mission runners don't like doing SoE missions because of that."

One has to ask what behavior they are exhibiting to become more attractive targets over non-SOE mission runners. I tend to run SOE missions and have yet to have an unfortunate incident. But then I do not bling my ships and I am cautious around neutrals.

Bitter said...

Sorry Gevlon, but you're wrong. Not because of your conclusion, but because of your start point.

"Yield Tankers" don't begin with "What's my highest ISK/hour?" but with "I am going to mine". From that, their circumstances -- where, what, in what and who with, estimated risk and their own aversion to said risk -- all determine how they should tank, and yield tanking is just one end of that continuum.

To label someone M&S because they include values other than ISK/hour in their decisions means we are *all* M&S -- which of us would't be better off if we spent our "EvE time" on something more financially productive in real life?

anon357 said...

This brings to mind a quote from the EVE wiki contributed to Alyx Farstrider.

"The goal is not "maximise ISK/h". The goal is typically "maximise both ISK/h and fun/h with an acceptable exchange rate between ISK and fun".

A miner might find the activity fun, but still want to earn as much money as possible doing it. They might indeed find it more fun trying to maximize their yield. There's always a trade-off in ship fitting, but at the end of the day it falls on the individual player how much risk they want to take and how much money they want to make. A yield fit is not always stupid, if they keep an eye on scan, if they know their locals, if they have some other means of protection, or if they just don't care if they get ganked.

This is a game. There's nothing wrong with taking it seriously - I fall in that category myself - but let those who want to treat it as a game do so. At worst, they'll have a rude awakening to the fact that they're not playing the same game as some others, but that's part of what makes EVE such an excellent and intriguing sandbox.