Greedy Goblin

Thursday, January 22, 2015

Ill minipost: liar Goon propagandist

I'm getting better. Probably tomorrow I'll be functional again. I will even log in today. No post was prepared and I'm not full enough to just write one now, so just a minipost: the Goon propaganda site posted about the meltdown of Tora... by posting nothing but what Tora said. They even explicitly wrote that "No word from Gevlon has been posted in response on his blog, and at the time of writing no information has been made public as to if Gevlon will actually pay the ISK demanded by Marmite in order to continue the GrrrGoons project." Too bad that my version was up hour before their piece as it was pointed out by their commenters.

Considering this and the fact that the version of Tora was pinged by The Mittani himself, Goons are really-really happy that the highsec wars is over. Except they are not. In 48 hour of active warring, Deadly Fingertips killed 0.38B Goons. Just Goons, since the whole CFC isn't decced yet. While extrapolating this to a year would be highly unprofessional, we can say that my trust in them wasn't misplaced.

What matters most: Deadly Fingertips keeps rapidly growing. My main problem with Marmite was that they refused to grow because everyone who wanted to join "sucked" or "was a jerk". This is illogical. A wardec costs the same if the attacker is 1 man corp or 10K alliance. So there is no point not hiring anyone who isn't an awoxer and pays his share in the wardec costs. If he dies due to stupid, he messes up his own killboard. A competitive PvPer should be proud of his personal killboard, not the corp or alliance killboard.

16 comments:

Anonymous said...

TMC has an editorial process, so at the time of writing your post probably wasn't up.

Deadly fingertips are funny. Sure,they can get short term results, but I doubt they'll be able to do that long term.

Foo said...

@anon 09:06
So TMC has an editorial process ... that does not do fact checking?

They have a comments page ... that denies *me* access?

The comments about Gevlon not replying are factually wrong - and there are no corrections.

Endie said...

"A competitive PvPer should be proud of his personal killboard, not the corp or alliance killboard."

This really does point to a fundamental flaw in your understanding of other peoples' motivations: people want to belong to prestigious groups. They want to be identified with success. That's why PL find it so easy to recruit. It's why Bat Country can turn away twenty for every one application we accept.

Don't get me wrong: forced to choose, when I play rugby I would rather I played brilliantly and scored and my team lost than vice versa. I am vastly competitive on an individual level. But I would far rather my team were successful *and* I did well, so I don't want us signing handless schmucks.

S Riojas said...

Not sure what anyone else expects from TMC other than propaganda favoring the Mittani's ego. Wolf Merrik should update his post... it certainly has been long enough for them to ammend their post... oh wait... that would spoil the propaganda.

Gevlon said...

@Endie: strange idea coming from a leader of an alliance yelling "we are bad at EVE"

Endie said...

'strange idea coming from a leader of an alliance yelling "we are bad at EVE"'

You actually fall for that line? Don't you feel it's a bit dated? It works wonderfully in making the people we beat in every war feel bad about themselves but doesn't our winning war after war for half a decade make it a little implausible, yet, to the rational outsider?

Also, the alliance and its member corps are not the same as each other. Repercussus, Bat Country, NED Clan: these are not the same as Goonswarm Federation just as a hand is not the same as a human.

daniel said...

infinite growth not necessarily is a good thing.
looking at e.g. pl and test, one being picky, one taking everybody ... both are viable ways.

goons don't claim to be bad at eve, but at pvp. a meme that they created for themselfs in order to a) laugh off their own losses and b) laugh about their enemies losses - though they substitute lack of skill*** with masses.

time will tell, but it seems tora indeed wasn't very clever.

*** not really needed as long as fc and leadership are competent.

Gevlon said...

@Endie: it doesn't matter what I think of that line. As long as it exists, it makes Goonswarm unable to recruit anyone "want to be identified with success". As it seems Goons aren't suffering from lack of members, I'd guess the number of people who want to do so isn't relevant.

Endie said...

'As long as it exists, it makes Goonswarm unable to recruit anyone "want to be identified with success"'

And yet this is not true, because as you have often pointed out (for instance in your Crossing Zebras interview) success in nullsec is visible on the map.

We have people queuing up to join us, many of them extremely good PvPers (Bat has picked up two talented, strat-level FCs in the last month from other blocs). If we couldn't attract and retain talent then we wouldn't be in our dominant position.

Gevlon said...

@Endie: so it's all about selecting the proper metric. Your win condition isn't ISK kills and losses, but sov holding (by the way, congratulation to the -3 captured regions in the last half year)

My point is that the proper metric for a highsec wardeccer is ISK destroyed and not ISK ratio. The wardeccer with 1T kills 200B losses is better than the one with 100B kills, zero losses. Therefore recruiting bad individuals isn't a problem: worst case they contribute nothing to the goal.

Endie said...

"(by the way, congratulation to the -3 captured regions in the last half year)"

Thanks. I think that it demonstrates that we are always willing to make the tough but rational choices in order to ensure our continued success. Selling them was just a bonus.

Anonymous said...

Your main problem with Marmite was that they didn't grow as fast as you wanted them to? Wow.... does paying merc's now mean you have a say in how they run their corp/alliance? Because that is what it sounds like.

Gevlon said...

@Anonymous: no, of course not. The problem isn't that they didn't grow.

The problem is that they demanded exclusivity despite being small.

S Riojas said...

"My point is that the proper metric for a highsec wardeccer is ISK destroyed and not ISK ratio. The wardeccer with 1T kills 200B losses is better than the one with 100B kills, zero losses."

By that logic 500 billion in kills with 1 trillion in losses is better than the 100 billion in kills and no losses. If the ratio does not truly matter.

For war dec purposes, my alliance views a war deccing corp as losing if they fail to destroy more than the cost or the war dec or lose more than they destroyed.

Hope your feeling better.

Gevlon said...

@S Riojas: and indeed, the deccer with 500B kills, 1T losses is better, since it destroys the assets of the targets 2.5x faster. What they lose is their problem.

Amyclas Amatin said...

Gevlon it isn't that we don't identify ourselves with success.

We have some of the best people in EVE. They aren't snobbish about their skills or actual abilities, they identify with and protect the weakest of the group.

I don't think anyone faults us for being bad or good. It is just that we tend to treat anyone who isn't us as less than human. - No one is offered the same level of inclusion and protection of fellow humanity who isn't part of our tribe.