Greedy Goblin

Monday, September 7, 2015

Evil was massacred in August

Like last month, I received the (oops, fixed link) killboard loss data for all members of the Imperium of Evil (formerly CFC). As always, the killboard inflation is removed, so if you did 1% damage of a 100B titan, you get 1B kills and not 100B. August seen one of the highest CFC losses since I'm making these statistics. 55236 API verified kills were processed and distributed among the alliances:
Alliance B ISK lost
Circle-Of-Two 324
Executive Outcomes 71
Fidelas Constans 475
Get Off My Lawn 173
Goonswarm Federation 1147
I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 71
RAZOR Alliance 158
RvB - BLUE Republic 81
RvB - RED Federation 92
SpaceMonkey's Alliance 402
Tactical Narcotics Team 167
The Initiative. 103
The Bastion 286
Small ones 17
Total CFC losses 3567

Below you can see how many killers were on their kill reports, proving that solo and small gang are not dead:
Size category B ISK destroyed
Solo 762
2..3 747
4..5 462
6..10 674
11..30 520
31+ 401

Below you can see how many ships and ISK they lost in different ship value groups. I'd like to stress how many little ships (like Harpies) they lose without significant dent to their budget, while the loss of the few expensive ships hit them harder:
Size category Ships lost B ISK destroyed
-40M 35006 376
40M-125M 9294 661
125M-250M 2820 540
250M-400M 1775 548
400M-1500M+ 1250 837
1500M+ 186 605

Finally, the zone distribution that shows that not their Providence offensive caused the extra losses, but being slain while ratting at home:
Zone B ISK destroyed
Deklein 516
Providence 317
Pure Blind 278
Branch 275
Vale of the Silent 256
Fade 242
Tribute 201
HighThe Citadel 173
Venal 113
HighDomain 102
Low_Lonetrek 94
Tenal 91
Cloud Ring 83
Geminate 64
Low_Derelik 61
Low_Black Rise 57
HighThe Forge 51
Low_The Citadel 50
Sum of small ones 542
Total 3567

Let's see the top killers and their 500M+ kills!
  1. Mordus Angels with 359B ISK damage. This is absolute record, MoA did awesome this month, they caused almost twice as much damage than the #2. The crown jewel was of course the Titan in the Imperium capital system. The pilot spent his last days dropping on MoA interceptors with smartbombs and thought nothing could go wrong in his own capital. Most of the damage was done by Out of Sight dreads, so this kill only added 11B to MoA. They were also flying 30-50 men fleets multiple times a day, attacking smaller gangs of the Evil. Watch the fruits of their work: 773M, 596M, 2280M, 1545M, 610M, 633M, 1851M, 577M, 586M, 1293M, 878M, 1231M, 528M, 594M, 590M, 1039M, 8665M, 1015M, 730M, 542M, 1351M, 1967M, 743M, 1685M, 601M, 1507M, 788M, 974M, 521M, 555M, 522M, 1484M, 737M, 687M, 4581M, 600M, 1517M, 716M, 1417M, 1322M, 560M, 526M, 552M, 1730M, 1265M, 529M, 1068M, 672M, 708M, 2375M, 692M, 585M, 939M, 555M, 805M, 521M, 1339M, 1847M, 595M, 936M, 919M, 674M, 2367M, 596M, 507M, 521M, 3834M, 1866M, 1878M, 1942M, 1978M, 714M, 1823M, 950M, 11B, 2373M, 518M, 4156M, 1130M, 793M, 915M, 729M, 545M, 1558M, 1817M, 520M, 516M,
  2. Out of Sight. with 187B ISK damage, 138B of it being the titan and the SC: 1466M, 542M, 1707M, 961M, 838M, 546M, 1190M, 1427M, 633M, 563M, 723M, 733M, 869M, 116B, 22B, 1344M, 2738M, 5640M, 609M, 2080M,
  3. Pandemic Legion with 140B ISK damage: 1035M, 961M, 879M, 568M, 809M, 733M, 1337M, 1011M, 705M, 969M, 558M, 875M, 1542M, 720M, 720M, 644M, 2241M, 2046M, 1433M, 1005M, 671M, 739M, 710M, 624M, 1123M, 574M, 677M, 1416M, 821M, 562M, 1178M, 1676M, 1302M, 737M, 1579M, 656M, 603M, 806M, 730M, 538M, 505M, 809M, 639M, 508M, 612M, 532M, 608M, 686M,
  4. Project.Mayhem. with 112B ISK damage: 900M, 1206M, 1326M, 527M, 1114M, 1082M, 963M, 834M, 879M, 671M, 1928M, 1509M, 581M, 502M, 4078M, 716M, 965M, 556M, 7166M, 541M, 548M, 800M, 1609M, 2513M, 2118M, 2322M, 509M, 2756M, 1248M, 9878M, 855M, 1003M, 967M, 560M, 1316M, 631M, 598M, 537M,
  5. #Corp: Anime Masters with 82B ISK damage. Don't get fooled by the relatively low number, a few men corp did this: 644M, 650M, 806M, 1052M, 559M, 1128M, 756M, 711M, 1631M, 655M, 964M, 925M, 585M, 871M, 1007M, 908M, 814M, 528M, 534M, 878M, 553M, 869M, 1321M, 1866M, 759M,
  6. Curatores Veritatis Alliance with 80B ISK damage. Yep, the defenders of Provi killed less minions of Evil than a few-men corp. This isn't because Provi is bad, it's because the Imperium of Evil is using cheap doctrines, so even full fleet whelps cost less than a blinged ratter. While their offensives can be averted, it costs them little. The only way to break them is to slay their ratters. Providence should really send either a retribution fleet to Deklein that AFK cloaks and ganks or send money to MoA: 523M, 651M, 688M, 667M, 567M, 546M, 796M,
  7. Gentlemen's.Club with 78B ISK damage: 680M, 529M, 942M, 1048M, 1517M, 1636M, 1837M, 1552M, 1466M, 1264M, 1619M, 2070M, 688M, 678M, 623M, 520M, 633M, 843M, 531M, 1027M, 1190M, 973M,
  8. RvB - RED Federation with 74B ISK damage: 538M, 927M, 853M, 1180M, 898M, 1540M,
  9. Black Legion. with 73B ISK damage: 532M, 888M, 1434M, 2267M, 673M, 739M, 509M, 579M, 2051M, 709M, 582M,
  10. Legion of xXDEATHXx with 70B ISK damage: 587M, 534M, 1053M, 1076M, 616M, 577M, 743M, 745M, 1168M, 817M, 891M, 1463M, 801M, 1153M, 1499M, 845M, 1699M, 780M, 566M, 786M, 949M, 521M,
  11. RvB - BLUE Republic with 67B ISK damage: 618M, 550M, 500M, 502M, 752M, 720M,
  12. Northern Coalition. with 59B ISK damage: 2828M, 542M, 942M, 1130M, 579M, 1670M, 1468M, 1642M, 721M, 543M, 1114M, 731M, 574M, 997M, 574M, 1213M, 710M, 534M, 569M, 1355M, 1238M, 944M, 1322M, 530M, 716M, 1222M, 628M, 782M, 733M, 971M, 1506M, 510M,
  13. Yulai Federation with 51B ISK damage: 653M, 504M, 503M, 765M,
  14. The Gorgon Empire with 49B ISK damage: 581M, 744M, 900M, 756M, 529M, 632M, 1212M, 996M, 1079M, 531M, 568M, 857M,
  15. Infinity Space. with 45B ISK damage: 800M, 726M, 784M, 678M, 762M, 1059M, 1117M, 512M,
  16. #Corp: Super Cr3w with 45B ISK damage: 1030M, 1260M, 871M, 925M, 749M, 619M, 663M, 786M, 571M, 543M, 540M, 642M, 698M, 1474M, 2649M, 902M, 980M, 882M, 669M, 567M, 710M,
  17. P I R A T with 44B ISK damage: 598M, 5973M, 658M, 531M, 682M, 687M, 1021M, 580M, 597M, 501M, 694M, 1188M, 550M, 511M,
  18. The Afterlife. with 42B ISK damage: 702M, 647M, 576M, 926M, 635M, 832M, 718M, 1066M, 557M, 886M,
  19. Goonswarm Federation keeps awoxing, with 41B ISK damage: 2970M, 1096M, 3345M, 2438M, 1227M, 2222M, 1359M, 4299M, 1088M, 676M, 3144M, 1295M, 974M, 779M, 1376M, 567M,
  20. The Volition Cult with 38B ISK damage: 735M, 559M, 1162M,
  21. #Corp: Furnace with 37B ISK damage: 1038M, 1637M, 605M, 638M, 1004M, 850M, 633M, 1030M, 671M, 587M, 528M, 598M, 561M, 799M, 596M, 2719M, 849M,
  22. Bora Alis with 37B ISK damage: 1026M, 928M, 653M, 1000M, 546M, 1951M, 1204M, 1005M, 3378M, 522M,
  23. Verge of Collapse with 32B ISK damage: 892M, 565M, 532M, 1153M, 1176M, 507M, 699M, 537M, 894M, 563M,
  24. The Marmite Collective with 30B ISK damage: 3033M, 1526M, 1301M, 516M, 726M, 518M, 991M, 2809M,
  25. Snuffed Out with 29B ISK damage: 796M, 503M, 2315M, 1657M, 2588M, 2758M, 2573M, 1033M, 1071M, 590M, 602M, 718M, 562M, 868M,
  26. The Minions. with 28B ISK damage: 701M, 729M, 1090M, 2282M, 842M, 575M, 1014M, 687M, 618M,
  27. Of Sound Mind with 28B ISK damage: 719M, 605M, 631M, 573M, 1416M, 1656M, 893M, 1305M, 534M, 837M, 582M, 515M, 668M,
  28. Hard Knocks Citizens with 27B ISK damage: 672M, 5671M, 1444M, 575M, 1378M, 1694M, 562M, 813M, 2377M,
  29. Test Alliance Please Ignore with 26B ISK damage: 936M, 693M, 652M, 554M, 818M,
  30. Sev3rance with 24B ISK damage: 516M, 731M, 710M,
  31. Lethal Intent. with 23B ISK damage: 1825M, 611M, 971M, 513M, 912M, 983M, 503M,
  32. Brave Collective with 22B ISK damage: 1581M, 522M, 552M, 1580M, 642M, 699M,
  33. Suddenly Spaceships. with 22B ISK damage: 1122M, 2423M, 2160M, 576M, 586M, 590M, 576M, 576M, 576M, 614M, 597M, 580M, 591M, 577M, 568M, 543M, 551M, 822M, 1828M,
  34. Warlords of the Deep with 21B ISK damage: 529M, 703M, 1542M,


Anonymous said...

So, slightly above average, and still far less than made ratting this month.
Better start packing up, everything is burning down.

or.. EVE is so quiet right now that ratting is picking up because everyone worth fighting has just stopped doing so (Bar Provi. Provi were awesome)

maxim said...

I sure like seeing the numbers roll in :)
However, if there is no info on CFC income and SRP budget, all of this feels kind of out of context.

if CFC SRP budget is less than 3 trill ISK then yeah, you did damage
if CFC SRP budget is ~5 trill ISK then you are just approaching the point where they are mildly stressed
if CFC SRP budget is >10 trill ISK then all of this is kind of inconsequential

My current understanding is that this extent of damage will, at the very least, force CFC leadership to sit down and consider their spending priorities - if only by the virtue of novelty of the whole situation. So definitely some effect there.

However, what you want to achieve is CFC being forced to either shrink the scale of their other financial ops, or deny people ship replacements. Wish there was a way to figure out how close to that point you are.

Another interesting thing to consider is SoV / PoS losses. Are these expensive? How many of them Goons lost last month? How many they rebuilt?

Gevlon said...

@Maxim: no, the losses I want to cause are individual ratting and hauling losses. These never were SRP-ed. I want the individual ratter to go to highsec instead. If they make the their money outside CFC space, their connection to CFC weakens. "why should I hunt entosising MoA when I don't use that space anyway?"

Warden of the North said...

@Gevlon for about what, a year, you're trying to hurt Goons with the type of warfare they are historically known to be immune too. And, well, seeing as there was no "exodus to hisec", I'd say you're proving history right and having little impact.

@maxim worse than that - most people can afford to replace their ratting boat without SRP.

Gevlon said...

@Warden: historically nobody tried that. Everyone tried to play the game of the Goons: clash with fleets. The OTEC and B0TLord treaty explicitly forbid "No "sov fuckery" or organized renter harassment" and "siphoning of moons or using future idiotic CCP modules like the new ESS" and "harassment of renters" (why did they write it twice? Because it's important). They knew that this can destroy them so they stopped it by diplomacy

About "no effect": even with this record kill, MoA did less than 10% of the total damage. Of course it won't break the Imperium. But MoA activity increases every month, soon it will be enough to drive lesser Imperium members out of their space.

maxim said...


What you are saying essentially means that you are not just fighting against Goon budget, but fighting against the combined budget of both Goons and all of their associated ratters.
I am confident that this numbers in tens of trillions easily. I am also confident that no asocial can ever accumulate a force large enough to break a social group of that size. This is simply not how power works.

You may want to formulate a more achievable local goal.
For example, if MoA took SoV in PB, then Goons are guaranteed to come down hard on it, right? Then what's stopping MoA from massacring goons en masse when that happens? Or other alliances taking bites out of Goons when their forces are distracted in PB?

@Warden of the North
It is ultimately an issue of scale. Where is the number that would be the breaking point at which the ratter would consider that being with goons is more trouble than it is worth?
Gevlon hopes that this number is rather high. That inflicing losses that barely count as single-digit percentages of ratter cash-flow will be enough to push the threshold. My experience has been that unless you literally decimate a farmer's income (at the very least), they are not really inclined to make changes.

Anonymous said...

"historically nobody tried that"

MoA tried it for 8 years. according to their ally description.

"But MoA activity increases every month"

It did not. It was also decreasing in some month. Ofcourse if they are lucky and get a stupid titan and other things it goes up.

But also you found out that the ratting the imperium does, is more then enough to cover all those losses. you just dont believe that the individual grunt is ratting enough to compensate. 5h ratting and you have your full blinged ratting ishtar in again. and that is afk ratting ;)
i know you devide your numbers by 40.000 or more, but thats not the truth. not all are ratters. not all are active accounts. and alts are 3 per acc.

everyday there are statistics in imperium leadership of top ratters of the last 24h. and you dont imagine how much they fkn rat everyday. i couldnt believe the amounts either.

Gevlon said...

@maxim: the trick is that the loss is always focused on a few members. Remember the creation-destruction graph: It says 476000B/year total ship losses, for about 500K accounts. That means that the average EVE player loses 800M a year. When one loses it in a day, he'll surely consider alternatives.

The best example is the titan pilot who ragequitted GSF and sold his pilot.

Anonymous said...

"The OTEC and B0TLord treaty explicitly forbid "No "sov fuckery" or organized renter harassment" "

this is diplomancy. and the goons are really good at it.
but guess what. also for PL etc it was very good. why should the biggest entities (regarding super power) openly fight each other? it is smarter to make peace and rule the world ;)
otherwise either side would get destroyed, and most likely it would have been pl. so wise decision.

Anonymous said...

"That means that the average EVE player loses 800M a year. When one loses it in a day, he'll surely consider alternatives."
but how often it happens to the same player that he looses his ratting ship more times a month?
i guess that are really only a very few stupid players. or they rat 24/7 and they really dont have to care.

the normal player will learn from his loss, and will avoid it the next weeks, till he gets again very lazzy and will loose it probably again.

Anonymous said...

The best example is the titan pilot who ragequitted GSF and sold his pilot.

Except that he didn't, the titan pilot was going to be sold in order to pay back to the owner of the Wyvern that died, because it was the Titan pilot's fault.

All of his other characters are still in GSF.

Gevlon said...

Obviously it's good diplomacy that works on PL. But that's not the point. They didn't write "don't bring fleets to us", it's explicitly allowed to bring a non-strategic fleet, they wrote "don't mess with ratters". So one can guess what the Goons really afraid of.

But you can rat in any other group too. So ratters will start thinking: "why don't I move to Period Basis or Insmother instead of losing ships in Dek"

He had to sell his pilot to reinburse a Wyvern? But, but, but everyone told me that Goons have money and make more than I can imagine.

Anonymous said...

Regarding the performance of CVA/providence: CFC was attacking the entire region of Providence owned by the Holders (a number of diferent alliances) if you summ up their damage (CVA, Yulai, Volition Cult, Severance), you will reach 193B isks.

Anonymous said...

No he didn't "had" to. He could easily ask someone ( me for example ) for a 150b interest free loan, and pay for the damages + new titan. He chose to try and reinburse it himself because he understood that he fucked up.

As about the "no srp for ratters" line, you do know that karmafleet gives away VNIs on demand, right?

Anonymous said...

"But you can rat in any other group too. So ratters will start thinking: "why don't I move to Period Basis or Insmother instead of losing ships in Dek""

because guess what? in those nullsec areas you have the same shit. there are also guys roaming around and killing ratters :D

why should he stay in the imperium? maybe cause it has the biggest power, best infrastructure from IT, a lot of social groups to hang around, best SRP, and most FUN in eve :-)

Anonymous said...

Yeah, since Fozziesov we actually do have SRP for ratters now, and reduced taxes most of the time. Miners get SRP too.

Anonymous said...

Have you like, ever, calculated how much Moa loses each week and how much of your Money actually gets used? Goon SRP is about 84b a MONTH. You give moa half of that. If Moa really is as efficient as you say, where exactly is that money going?

After all, the big titan kill Moa credited themself for, most of the gunpower was used by OOS.

If Moa would USE your money they could do this every week. So are you really financing RMT for Gen Eve?

Gevlon said... shows their July losses.
174B CFC kills 86B losses from CFC, 67% ISK ratio 55% of their losses were from the Evil Imperium (so another 70B losses to neutrals).

Goon SRP is low because Goon PvP is low. Most of their losses are non-SRP ratting losses. While I've seen some retarded missioning Tengus, 90-95% of MoA losses are SRP-able PvP losses.

Imperium Grunt #123411 said...

Are you sure the Titan pilot "rage quitted" instead of just selling his titan character because supers are not worth the hassle?

Anonymous said...

So how much of a say are you having in their policies?

Given they have a minimum 85% efficiency, and cheapfit policy, is this related to your payouts, or is this their own policy, uninfluenced by you?

If it is their own policy, what the hell are they spending your money on, apart from using it as a form of welfare.

Gevlon said...

I fully agree and support the "have high ISK ratio" policy. I help their SRP to help such group to function and grow (and finally kill the Goons).

Anonymous said...

Ignoring the fact that the Providence campaign lasted less than a week on a coalition level doesn't give the Provi-bloc groups the credit they deserve for their defense.