So, Stunt Flores, the leader of the corp Anime Masters that killed 82B minions of Evil with only a handful of members got himself banned. His violation is pretty mild, he created a dumb meme at the expense of CCP Fozzie and it was taken as impersonation. CCP clearly found this more serious than rallying players to bully someone into suicide and creating worldwide bad publicity (30 days ban) or vandalizing CCP property and creating some more bad publicity (6 months ban).
Many of us are upset with the way CCP community handling. Some people, like Goons get away with even real world crimes, others get banned for a bad joke. Some fansites get CCP employees providing content to help getting traffic, other fansites get reviews from devs with the clear aim to decrease traffic. I see this injustice more than anyone else, I suffered from it too and have a simple thing to say:
Stop being idiots and provide excuses to get banned! Life isn't fair, get used to it. There are much bigger injustices in the World than video game devs being video game devs. Because that's the core of the problem, in every game the devs want to cater to "casual players" (scrubs). Goons are just as scrubs as one can be, that's why devs love them. Run an alliance with a couple thousand morons and slackers and you get the same love. Look at the situation with the eyes of a dev: on the one hand there are hundreds of happy little Goonies flying in their Harpies to achieve some game objective, exchanging jokes and having fun while paying hundreds of subscriptions that pay for his salary. On the other hand there is someone like Stunt Flores who achieves the same game objective all by himself, paying a handful of subscriptions. Who would you want to win? Yes, the ethos of "dark and unforgiving universe" is a great thing. But the need to pay your mortgage and your electricity bill beats it any day of the week.
We aren't simply "anti-Goon" here, we are anti-establishment. Devs want a game where every drunken idiot can get into a zero-cost ship (and pod after the nerf) and "shoot shit", exchange porn links and "edgy" jokes and finally "explode hilariously". We want a game where a good player mercilessly slay the bads, where the sheep is terrorized by wolves (hopefully into becoming wolves). While I believe (and the player influx after B-R supports) that being the only competitive MMO would be a very successful niche, devs keep playing safe and cater to the lowest common denominator. They don't like us slaying the mentioned lowest common denominator, they even less like if we inform the lowest common denominator about being lowest common denominator, so the devs get rid of us if they can. How about you don't make it easier for them? Here are some advices:
As I mentioned, there are much worse things in the World than video game devs being video game devs. So get some perspective before you whine:
PS: I petitioned the 2.4B sent to Stunt to be forwarded to the corp wallet, but have little hopes. Update: I got my money back, and sent it to the corp.
Many of us are upset with the way CCP community handling. Some people, like Goons get away with even real world crimes, others get banned for a bad joke. Some fansites get CCP employees providing content to help getting traffic, other fansites get reviews from devs with the clear aim to decrease traffic. I see this injustice more than anyone else, I suffered from it too and have a simple thing to say:
Stop being idiots and provide excuses to get banned! Life isn't fair, get used to it. There are much bigger injustices in the World than video game devs being video game devs. Because that's the core of the problem, in every game the devs want to cater to "casual players" (scrubs). Goons are just as scrubs as one can be, that's why devs love them. Run an alliance with a couple thousand morons and slackers and you get the same love. Look at the situation with the eyes of a dev: on the one hand there are hundreds of happy little Goonies flying in their Harpies to achieve some game objective, exchanging jokes and having fun while paying hundreds of subscriptions that pay for his salary. On the other hand there is someone like Stunt Flores who achieves the same game objective all by himself, paying a handful of subscriptions. Who would you want to win? Yes, the ethos of "dark and unforgiving universe" is a great thing. But the need to pay your mortgage and your electricity bill beats it any day of the week.
We aren't simply "anti-Goon" here, we are anti-establishment. Devs want a game where every drunken idiot can get into a zero-cost ship (and pod after the nerf) and "shoot shit", exchange porn links and "edgy" jokes and finally "explode hilariously". We want a game where a good player mercilessly slay the bads, where the sheep is terrorized by wolves (hopefully into becoming wolves). While I believe (and the player influx after B-R supports) that being the only competitive MMO would be a very successful niche, devs keep playing safe and cater to the lowest common denominator. They don't like us slaying the mentioned lowest common denominator, they even less like if we inform the lowest common denominator about being lowest common denominator, so the devs get rid of us if they can. How about you don't make it easier for them? Here are some advices:
- Avoid real-time communication (twitter, reddit, Jabber, Slack, Skype, TS, local chat) with devs, Goons and generally everyone who isn't in your group! It's easy to say stupid things if you answer fast. I'm pretty sure that if I had the opportunity to answer to Falcon instantly, I'd said something ban-worthy. But I didn't have the opportunity because I made sure that I don't have the opportunity.
- Even in your in-group communication watch your mouth! Consider everything being told as something that will go public.
- Avoid jokes, satire and trolling! These can be easily misinterpreted. This and this and this and this are harder to misinterpret!
As I mentioned, there are much worse things in the World than video game devs being video game devs. So get some perspective before you whine:
PS: I petitioned the 2.4B sent to Stunt to be forwarded to the corp wallet, but have little hopes. Update: I got my money back, and sent it to the corp.
22 comments:
You of all people should be aware of Hanlon's Razor; time to apply it, I think.
What seems more likely?
A) Despite knowing that EVE has a reputation as one of the most hardcore MMOs in existence, CCP are actively conspiring to drive out the one group of players they have a serious advantage over WoW in trying to attract.
B) The GM who handled that case hadn't had a coffee that morning, and Stunt got an unusually harsh penalty because the guy happened to be in a bad mood.
I'd say the latter is a far more likely explanation, in which case 'CCP is biased and evil and trying to turn the game into Hello Kitty online' is exactly the wrong line to take; it's only going to put them on the defensive and make it less likely that the decision gets a fair review.
Here's a batter tip. Don't use correspondence in ANY medium with a dev as a template for any kid of satire.
"...other fansites get reviews from devs with the clear aim to decrease traffic. I see this injustice more than anyone else, I suffered from it too ..."
did your blog traffic really suffer from it? because one often sais that bad publicity is good publicity.
anyway, that pic actually makes for a good meme.
@Raphael: there must be something wrong with the coffee machine because
http://www.minerbumping.com/2014/09/the-martyrs-of-highsec-1.html
http://www.minerbumping.com/2014/10/the-martyrs-of-highsec-4.html
http://www.minerbumping.com/2014/10/the-martyrs-of-highsec-2.html
http://www.minerbumping.com/2014/10/the-martyrs-of-highsec-3.html
Sure some of them were active in the Bonus Room, but most of them are simply guilty in miner ganking.
Also, what Hamlon's Razor says about this?
- The devs of EVE upkeep a unique game even when the subscriptions are decreasing and they are banning/discrediting players most fitting to this unique image by accident.
- The devs of EVE are just like any other game dev.
@Urziel99: that's a good tip. However you can still be banned for using impersonation of other player, unless of course you are a Goon: https://www.themittani.com/news/imperium-diplomatic-update-july-2015 In this post they clearly impersonate me "enjoy reading this post by Gevlon Goblin in which he puts forth the idea", despite the link leads to Reddit, where I've never posted.
@Daniel: I have no way to tell how much my traffic would be if I wasn't condemned by Falcon and especially if devs would be everyday guests like they are on the Goon propaganda site.
"We want a game where a good player mercilessly slay the bads, where the sheep is terrorized by wolves (hopefully into becoming wolves). While I believe (and the player influx after B-R supports) that being the only competitive MMO would be a very successful niche, devs keep playing safe and cater to the lowest common denominator. "
No, therefore I have a job... I want to have fun with a game. That's it. Otherwise the game would be a job.
With the ban of stunt Flores some players outcry while goonies are happy. Is there anyway we can mass petition or collect signatures to sk for at least a temp ban instead of perms ban? Nearly everywhere I read people just say its unfair etc but don't think anyone taken to the collective opinion. If there is a possibility in all for it not cause he scalped hundreds of goons but because the joke itself didn't deserve the perms ban when other offences from other players were either ignored or lightly take. And yes I'm part of moa but doesn't Chang the opinion that his perms ban was unfair
"In this post they clearly impersonate me "enjoy reading this post by Gevlon Goblin in which he puts forth the idea", despite the link leads to Reddit, where I've never posted."
That's a link to the reddit discussion specifically about your post on your blog. The reason reddit is used is because you moderate out any comments you disagree with, not just troll comments, so reddit is an impartial forum for discussion. No impersonation took place unless you are suggesting TMC posted that article on your blog?
The people who vandalized the EVE monument were also permabanned, before it was overturned in private soon after that. How can you predict it'll not be the same for Stunt Flores ? There even is an article advocating the cancellation of the ban on the "Goon evil propaganda site which is basically Goebbels".
Sure, I don't like Stunt Flores, either because of his ingame actions or the few posts I've seen of him, but that doesn't mean I or every goon is satisfied by the way it was handled.
I think we should one day all go on a strike and let the PCU drop for a day or two to almost zero.
(The current sov system and markets can handle it without being abused during this strike imho)
"There is only one boss. The customer. And he can fire everybody in the company from the chairman on down,
simply by spending his money somewhere else." - Sam Walton
Show CCP games who is the boss, their hubris is starting to vex me more and more.
Regards, a Freelancer
@Stan: Go back to WoW! They have time-travelling orcs!
@Anon 09:57: that link leads to Reddit, to a post ABOUT me, but not BY me. Nothing in that linked page is written by me. The whole ban is about someone posting his own opinion about Fozzie but disguised it as the statement of Fozzie himself.
@Naice: you, who are posting on a third party blog might want to keep EVE diverse. Random F1 pushing guy who can't care less and just "wanna hav som fun" is very happy that his Ishtar gets him ISK while he watches porn instead of an instant travel to his clone station by Stunts.
@Anon: and why should the "hav som fun" guys join the strike?
I'm a random F1 F1 pushing guy who can't care less and just "wanna hav som fun", and I'm very happy that my Ishtar gets me ISK while I watch porn. Yet I've never been caught by Stunt, and I've only been caught twice because I made stupid mistakes as a newcomer to nullsec. I live in Deklein where I count the MoA inties passing into my system, and sometimes I undock a pvp ship when there's a fair chance I can catch one (hint : that doesn't happen very often).
Yet I'm not happy with how Stunt's ban was handled because it reeks of injustice. On the other hand he's suspected of using input broadcasting but there has been no words of CCP on the matter. If he is to be permabanned, I'd prefer that it was for a justified reason rather than this.
"that link leads to Reddit, to a post ABOUT me, but not BY me. Nothing in that linked page is written by me. The whole ban is about someone posting his own opinion about Fozzie but disguised it as the statement of Fozzie himself."
But it's clear from what they say that they are talking about your post since they reference things that you did actuall ysay in that post, and while it links to the reddit discussion, the topic of that discussion is a direct link to your blog. That starkly different from mocking up an image to make it appear like you said something.
You know goons started a campaign on reddit to get him unbanned? Too early to know if it had any effect, but still.
Also you are using some pretty bad hyperbole, the link from themittani.com is not impersonating you, at worst it is avoiding direct linking to deny you traffic, at best it is a simple misunderstanding.
The Goon propaganda site claims that clicking that link leads to my post, while it leads to a bunch of posts other people wrote about me. It's not different from claiming that Fozzie wrote something, while it's actually what other people think about him.
Well, isn't he a repeat offender who was temp banned several times in the past and had several warnings on his account? Doesn't really come as a surprise that CCP goes "enough is enough" and pulls the trigger for good at some point.
Hopefully Stunt's ban will be a short one. I know that he inspired many of us: there are a lot more Stratios in Pure Blind hunting imps than there where a month or two ago. Even in High Sec the militia have started using them to hunt Goon and Code "loot collector" cloaky freighters.
If Stunt doesn't come back hopefully his corporation will continue the war against the evil imperium. I don't think there is a more honorable fight in all of EVE! It would be a great way to honor his legacy and follow the bushido.
Gevlon, you have quite the imagination. No Goon is sitting in his chair going "YAY, ban stunt!" - most of us don't even know who he is aside the fact he shows up in intel a bit. If anything we are the last people to care about someone getting banned. I think a handful of us got a chuckle out of the stunt ban bot shortly after returned to not really giving a shit. We enjoy guys like him who actually bring ships you can fight with, unlike the lesser skilled individuals you fund.
"Random F1 pushing guy who can't care less and just "wanna hav som fun" is very happy that his Ishtar gets him ISK while he watches porn" this is pathetic, are you really stooping this low Gevlon? And how can you criticize someone for ~pushing F1~ when you stare at graphs a majority of the day (terrible spreadsheets you created the rest of the day) and press "sell" or "buy".
@Anon: and where did I blame Goons for his ban?
In group communication is just as dangerous. Spies can report anyone, and since it is anonymous it is no cost to the spy.
https://www.themittani.com/features/defense-ccp-fozzie
CCP games as a company is facing some difficult (minimizing) customer numbers on several fronts atm.
They have only 2 gaming services out there, and one of which is at least not giving them a loss anymore,
but you can not say it's because of 80 million consoles they have healthy customer numbers either on the PS3.
There are some pie in the sky games on the drawing board, but they are no guarantee of more (repeat) customers.
With the release of the Aegis patch (dubbed fozzie-sov by the community, this phrasing was not denied by the
company early on) you could clearly see an increase in new players born and PCU numbers on eve-offline.net.
Since the 7th July, the PCU of 31.873 (the lowest since dec 2007) finally started to climb as a moving average.
source: http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
The concurrent PCU's were minimally trending up again for awhile and at least holding steady till the Galatea patch.
Even the new players born since Aegis patch day show a nice upward trending for a very short while, but are declining after only one month of the release.
BUT even these figures concerning 2 aspects of customer numbers for CCP games,
PALE in comparison of what eve online used to see in PCU and player born numbers in the not so distant past !
This means the company and most likely it's staff is feeling pressure about how successful this new sovereignty mechanics is.
In my opinion this is where the quality of leadership should be shown to inspire your staff and fan base to look past the disgruntlement that is in the air at the moment, and where we are shown a brighter and better future for our New Eden.
Personally it disgusts me that no sign of true leadership has yet been shown, and that the measures to protect the (common) dev from a(ny) customer disgruntlement at the moment is done to the extreme, with copy pasting of rules and regulations.
CCP games has at least one person left in management, CCP Hellmar, and a few more in some key positions like CCP Scarpia, the company's lead game designer, and CCP Seagull who's vision of New Eden is at least driving the game developers forward.
source: http://www.ccpgames.com/en/company/management
What can we expect from CCP games leadership ?
Will it wait for a player event in New Vegas to energize the visiting customers and turn them into fans with the use of beverages ?
Regards, a Freelancer
PS: #don'tpermaban it's disproportionate and please bring back CCP Soundwave (also CCP Unifex is at Bethesda, Fallout 4 yeah) and when in doubt Vote with your wallet :)
source: https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jonathan-lander/1/410/936
"@Anon: and where did I blame Goons for his ban?"
Correct Gevlon, you never said that. Some other anon said "With the ban of stunt Flores some players outcry while goonies are happy" which is indeed false. Sure Stunt does have his fleeting moment of success. But some goons feel that this ban was garbage. Some of us enjoy Stunt. He at least provides some content. To be honest Stunt is allowed to exist because he provides no serious threat, much like MOA. We do not stay up late at night sweating this shit. The only things we sweat is the price of Geckos and whether there will ever truly be another great conflict/battle in Eve space that does not involve just frigates and ceptors.
I don't argue any of that. Do you see "unban him pretty please" or "unban him or else..." in my post. My post is simply: don't give them any reason to ban you because they want to ban you (while they really don't want to ban Goons, no matter how bad they behave)
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