Greedy Goblin

Friday, July 3, 2015

They didn't want that alliance anyway

A few hours after I published how MoA broke the Imperium alliance J4LP a post appeared on the Goon propaganda site and distanced themselves from the shattered J4LP. Commenters were also quick to point that J4LP isn't member of the Imperium.

This surprised me as I keep a close watch on them for obvious reasons, but was completely unaware that J4LP left. But there is more here: on Jun 29, EN24 posted an article with the title "Brawl In Cloud Ring: Lethal Ironboards vs. The Imperium." While you could dismiss it as "EN24 is wrong and unreliable", the article starts with "the writer of this article is a member of IG.Academy, a member of the Iron Armada." ... "On the night of the 26th of June, there was a battle in Cloud Ring between the Imperium and a coalition comprised of Lethal Intent [L3THAL], Iron Armada [FLEEP], and Usurper [USURP], known as Lethal Ironboards." This means he is a member of one of the sides of the battle.

Even better, the interviewed SMA FC said: "so we committed J4LP and other Syndicate allies while SMA held on a Titan. Once the Lethal caps were on grid, SMA committed, while Imperium moved into position. We then committed J4LP caps to buy some more time and started taking subs while J4LP and other allies focused on the caps. " He clearly speaks of J4LP as something that "we" (SMA? Imperium?) controls.

Of course both of them can be wrong, but it's surprising that both sides of the battle perceived J4LP as something integrated into the Imperium forces. So we can conclude that J4LP was de facto Imperium member on Jun 26. We can start space-lawyering if they were "true Scotsman" or not, but I'd go with "if it flies with Imperium, blue to Imperium, lives in/directly adjacent to Imperium, then it's Imperium".

It is possible that there were decisions made higher-up to loosen the ties and transform J4LP from a proper member (who is ordered to deploy with the others and receive full support from the others) to an "ally" who helps and being helped if it's not too inconvenient, but they didn't bother announcing it and considered J4LP something they'll keep positively interacting. Only when J4LP was soundly defeated during the MoA deployment (I do not claim "solely by MoA") and its space is now occupied by newcomers, they switched to the "we didn't want that alliance anyway".

It's funny to see how the once powerful CFC is now operates on "edge cases". Uedama kills by CODE are now belonging to them. J4LP losses don't. I'm sure that if J4LP and SMA could keep Cloud Ring, they wouldn't be disowned and the common belief of them being Imperium would be upheld. Anyway the Imperium propaganda shifted from "Watch how we pwn!" to "If we add this because of [space lawyering] and substract this because of [space lawyering] then we didn't lose.".

Their end is near. And do you know what's the funniest? When they collapse, there won't be anyone else but me and MoA around to claim credit (even if they actually collapse because H1Z1 pays more real money). I mean if you aren't committed fighting them when they go down, you can't claim credit and no one else but me and MoA are committed. Everyone else is just "third partying" and "was looking for some gudfite" and "was just having fun, no pressure". Hey, there is still time to belong to those who broke the superpower of the last 5 years! Deploy to CFC land, publish your commitment to the death of CFC and receive glory when their last FC/leader leaves for H1Z1!

PS: Another fine piece from the tears collected by MoA:
From: Colleen O'Shay O'Shay
Sent: 2015.05.10 14:38
To: Akballah Kassan, Baaad Seed, Dathon Rayn, DeCypherSphere, Efraya, FieryCorn, IVAN KILLYA, JAY WRIGHT, KiloAlpha, Kinis Deren, Rodney McCaay, The BIind,

wow 20 of you on a miner ! really...........fucking punks

The interesting thing is that no miners were harmed with her, just a ratter and some dumb Goons who tried to PvP. Goons, learn from her mistake, if one of you is tackled, just dock up, trying to save him just give more kills to MoA!


Anonymous said...

> Their end is near.

how near do you think? care to make a prediction? will we have goon-free-eve this year or next?

Gevlon said...

Currently cannot, because Fozziesov turns everything upside down.

Anonymous said...

What I am affraid of is when goons collapse that unpleasent The Mittani will advice his fans to leave EVE Online and play other games, and most of them will. And when thousands of players leave (with multiple accounts) CCP Games will suffer huge losses, hence the game will suffer from it too.

Warden of the North said...

I doubt you will listen to reason, but J4LP are not an Imperium alliance. They're SMA'a pet chicken, and therefore - SMA's responsibility. If they were Imperial, we'd see a counter-attack to stabilize Cloud Ring.

However, let's put it this way: Cloud Ring was a region so worthless that .EXE is probably making more money off two constellations in Branch than the entire Cloud Ring. With the southern Imperium gone, there's absolutely no need to hold CR. Its only redeeming quality was moons - ratting-wise it was incapable of supporting any semi-decent alliance.

As for Goon-free-eve... it's mostly wishful thinking - there are strong community bonds among the goons. The Imperium may fall apart at some point, but you are unlikely to destroy the GSF itself. (And frankly, considering allied groups 'goons', or for that matter 'minions' shows how little people understand how the Imperium works. But I could write an essay on this.)

Gevlon said...

@Anon: they won't be missed. With them, their insufferable behavior will leave and without them EVE could recruit more decent people.

@Warden of the North: and SMA isn't Imperium either? Because if it is, then J4LP is Imperium pet chicken.

Anonymous said...

J4LP is not a formal member of the Imperium but maintains friendly connections. SMA on the other hand is an ally, who will help J4LP as J4LP will help them. J4LP is in fact neutral to GSF and possibly some others. During the battle SMA decided to come to J4LP aid, and Imperium forces came to SMA's aid.

A.K said...

From what I have seen it appears that J4LP are merely a 'pet' of SMA who use them as a buffer defence of Fade. When MOA were on deployment in Cloud Ring they were very inactive tbh, that's why we went back to Pure Blind, especially once we realised they were no longer a full member of CFC.

As an aside, out of all members of CFC/Imperium who do people think is the weakest link? From what I've seen so far I'd say TNT are the easiest targets.

Warden of the North said...

@Gevlon: SMA are an Imperium alliance. However - the Imperium itself follows the "Vassal of my vassal is not my vassal" rule. Ergo, while J4LP may be in some degree of friendship with a member of the Imperium, that does not make them a member of it.

It can be related to the situation from back before the HBC fell - during a brief period of time, Executive Outcomes maintained blue status to both HBC and CFC. The region of Cloud Ring that separated the two became something of a DMZ.

While TEST and its allies were blue to .EXE, an alliance of back-then CFC - it did not mean that the HBC alliances were a part of the CFC. It merely meant that they would not be randomly fired upon by .EXE members. EXE itself ended up allying with the CFC - but the history of this decision is another chapter of EVE player-lore entirely.

Also, if Goons were to suddenly leave - it would not change EVE. The carebears would rejoice initially, but not every ganker is a Goon. In fact, most of them are not - the history of being ruthless in EVE predates Goonswarm and harkens back to the old days of m0o.

GSF are not the inventors of evil. They are merely a twisted mirror reflection of the EVE universe - shaped by the real thing, exaggerated to the point only the worst parts can be seen and released unto the world.

Arrendis said...

As others have mentioned, J4LP is not part of the Imperium - when the CFC reorganized, blunt assessments were made regarding each Alliance's likely ability to hold space under the coming system. J4LP was estimated to be too small to hold sov on their own - they were given the opportunity to fold into one of the other Alliances (SMA, Bastion, LAWN, and CO2 were all options, I think), or to attempt to stand on their own outside of the Imperium.

They chose the latter. They're still blue to SMA, and a lot of us still like the heck outta Fweddit, but right now, other than decisions made by individual member Alliances*... they're on their own.

* - Because member Alliances are autonomous. They're merely expected to act in concert with the rest of the Coalition when the Coalition needs to act. Much like France is not a vassal-state of the US, and often acts counter to American interests when France feels her own interests lie elsewhere, but all of NATO is obligated to be a part of any actual NATO action.

Anonymous said...

The NATO analogy is perfect. Gevlon seems to think that it operates more like the Warsaw Pact.

If all non Goon alliances turned within the Imperium turned on the Goons the result would not be a case of 'Goons stomp former pets easily'. Power is not nearly as centralised as you may think.

Provi Miner said...

Why would I deploy to imperium sov? thats just dumb they are coming to me I can kill them here easier. Once we prove that fozzi sov works by forcing them to constantly back track and reclaim lost systems and slaughter them in the mini game battle will you give us credit as well?

Provi Miner said...

of note is that while nominally a part of nato, france is not a full member of nato. Basically France is like that piece of ass you hit when you are drunk but deny knowing to everyone who will listen. France is a horrible example. For instance, germany would be a better example: When nato goes to war germany is coming with it, unlike france who could do their normal oh no not us. France is a leech upon nato they want all the protection at none of the cost.