Greedy Goblin

Saturday, March 21, 2015

Weekend minipost: CSM 10

So the CSM 10 results are out. Calling it anything but a serious defeat would be ridiculous damage control. This will be probably the most hostile CSM towards PvE, small-gang PvP, economy and the game overall. Let me copy the lines of the winners from my the CSM recommendation table:
Name Affiliation Quick decision
Cagali Cagali Brave Newbies Harmless
Chance Ravinne Some small group Troll
corbexx No Holes Barred Document of Shame
corebloodbrothers Proviblock Document of Shame
Endie von Posts Goonswarm Evil
Gorga Nulli Secunda Populist
Jayne Fillon Spectre Fleet Document of Shame
Manfred Sideous Pandemic Legion Document of Shame
Mike Azariah Higsec corp Passed
Sion Kumitomo Goonswarm Evil
Sort Dragon Darkness Document of Shame
Steve Ronuken His own corp Passed
Sugar Kyle Snuff Box Passed
Thoric Frosthammer Get of my Lawn Evil

We have Sugar, we have 2 "meh, OK", one "not hostile, not friendly", 9 openly hostile and one "who the hell is Chance Ravinne and why did anyone vote for him"? CCP went against the consensus of the blue doughnut expressed in the Document of Shame, so it's not "all is lost", but CSM 10 will be a stronger-than-ever voice for those whose only purpose with the game is to earn money from it.

There were 37K votes cast, that's less accounts than online in an average Saturday evening, so most players still didn't bother to vote. While CCP is somewhat to blame for letting 75, mostly troll candidates to the starting line, we have to face it that most players simply can't be bothered to lift a finger for themselves. I don't know if the situation would be different if players in highsec wouldn't be forced to play alone by the wardecs. After all, I'm also playing alone and voted.

Currently neither NPC nullsec, WH space nor highsec has a representative (Mike might provides good criticism, but he voices no opinion on anything and Steve is more about API tools than actual gameplay). The fate of WH space on the other hand made me smile: not like I didn't tell on every possible forum that anyone signing the Document of Shame is working for The Mittani!

Anyway, if you had hopes to rally "the people" against the blue doughnut, you must get rid of it. You can only count on yourself, your own ability to kill CFC with your own hands or by financially supporting those who do.

24 comments:

Urziel99 said...

Mike voices lots of opinions, he just doesn't deal in absolutes which is why most people on any extreme, (CODE, Goons, You) don't like him. Sion went so far as to call him an anarchist. Mike took it as a compliment

Sasha Nyemtsov said...

Gevlon,

We know well that voter apathy is a feature of many democracies. Most of those which do boast compulsory national voting provide get-outs, weakening enforcement of the rules (http://www.idea.int/vt/compulsory_voting.cfm).

You correctly identify this phenomenon in CSM voting but offer no solution in this particular post. If you have one, I'd genuinely like to hear it!

I'm one of those who struggle to understand the relevance of the CSM in its current form.

I voted, but in the manner of one who stands among a group of people trying to influence the weather.



Gevlon said...

@Sasha Nyemtsov: I did offer one solution: non-wardeccable highsec corps.

Highsec players are playing totally solo, being connected to no community at all. People with no micro-community are known to be politically inactive, since micro-community connects them to the macro-community.

Lorelei Ierendi said...

There is still no real way to differentiate between apathy, and ignorance. How many casual high sec miner-bears even know that there is a CSM??

My idea would have been for CCP to make one of those annoying popups on log in (like before the downtime) that you have to actively click away... at least then even those who never read the forums could not claim ignorance.

Or reintroducing some kind of "I don't want to / care enough to vote" option for the elections... so people can register their disinterest.

I won't give up on High Sec yet... but it is going to be a long year!

Gevlon said...

@Lorelei Ierendi: just because he knows about its existence, he won't bother.

Voting needs one to read 75!!! introduction posts. Why would any line member do that?! The usual way is that their corp leadership does it and then give recommendation. The line Goon probably had no clue who is Thoric Frosthammer, he just voted for him because told to.

99smite said...

Well, although CSM has been constantly full of 0.0 lobbyists, CCP has begun an immense project:

NERF 0.0 TO CRAP. So far, they have been more successful than in any other projects.

Jump fatigue has severly limited long distance movements, skynet nerf will get rid of carriers as they do not put out significantly more dps than a machariel which warps away much faster than a clumsy capital...

Ishtar nerf will further nerf 0.0 income

BUT!!!!!

The real problem is not the 0.0 resident who earns "too much", the real problem is the immense wealth amassments afk and passively through moon go which is cotrolled by a happy few, which in exchange finance their RL living with it.

CCP is to blame and no one else, neither mittens nor nc. nor PL or any other people making zillions of isk and laundring it....

So far, CCP are acting very altruisticly, they let all the RMT'ers in a share of the money that can be made of EVE. Monex that CCP lacks for hiring decen CRM managers and paying decent salaries to competent game devs...

daniel said...

"Ishtar nerf will further nerf 0.0 income"

afair the ishtars sentry damage gets a nerf, while the so called afktar or isktar utilizes heavy drones.

it's not like the csm election was heavily advertised for in the launcher - one could discuss why, but i think it's on purpose; or do you really want a few hundred thousand clueless players to vote your csm?

Lorelei Ierendi said...

@Daniel - If one does not at least try to change us clueless players into players with a clue... then nothing will change.
(change here would be good!)

@Gevlon - But with just one or two mouseclicks to let the world know he *knows* of the Election, but just is not interested enough... would at least let us know that people who have the opportunity to vote know that they have the opportunity, and *choose* not to.

There are enough bloggers, commentators around that can help with filtering out the candidates. There is even a website that helps you find candidates that match yourself... it works relatively good (I filled it out, then came back later in a rush, clicked quickly through the questions going with a "gut" feeling... and still got an 85% match with me - the main differences were in the area of "null" questions).

There are enough tools out there... it is just letting people know that they are there... and giving them the chance to actively and knowlingly choose to use them (or not). Just like with D-Scan!

Anonymous said...

You don't know why people would have voted for Chance Ravinne?

Perhaps he leveraged his referrals to eve, perhaps people wanted someone who is interested in expanding the reach of Eve, perhaps people liked his NPE suggestions, perhaps marketers and ad guys are good at selling things :)

You of all people should know that being in a "small corp no one knows about" does not preclude influence and people knowing about you.

Gevlon said...

@Anonymous: I've never even heard the name Chance Ravinne before I made the election recommendation post and then I considered him a random troll who applied while drunk.

Anonymous said...

Ok, so 37K accounts voted. Out of what, around 400K? That's less than 10%

I have 3 accounts, I voted on none of them. What's the point? CCP is going to do whatever the hell they want anyway. The CSM looks like nothing but a sham.

Case in point, the new "sov" system with the Entosis links. Do you seriously think CSM9 was in on that? CCP just came up with it in a vacuum and dumped it out.

If the CCP wasn't a sham, they would have been the ones to reveal Entosis, not CCP Fozzle in his blog.

99smite said...

Hahahaha corbexx just joined t he goons... LMFAO

Chance Ravinne is space-popular. He has a Youtube channel in which he shows his adventures as a stealth bomber pilot who roams in wh-space.

His videos are mostly funny because he is relatively new to the game and often makes hilarious mistakes while he does not take himself too serious...

Provi Miner said...

wow you still don't get it, core is all about the small gang pvp, and opening up null to all of eve. if you actually bothered to research you know where these candidates stand. Do you have any idea how many care bears core represents? its provi for goodness sakes we are the epitome of small gang war fare and mission running. We certainly have no interest in the blue doughnut other than when they are at peace we get more stuff to shoot. But meh.

Anonymous said...

Reason I did not vote: it happened so fast and there was nothing inside the game that reminded me to vote. I wanted to, but with RL precedence, family and other stuff, The small rotating banner on the launcher was too small a real reminder, and only reading your post now made me remember what I did not do.
I judt think, make it part of the eve client and not just a forum game - I would really have appreciated a reminder.

frierenderWiener said...

I had to google how to vote for CSM 10 to end up on the right page and then to learn I missed the deadline by 2 days. I wish there would have been a nagging reminder in game to make me cast my vote (or optionally to let me cast no vote at all). I am severely annoyed with the results now.

Urziel99 said...

"If the CCP wasn't a sham, they would have been the ones to reveal Entosis, not CCP Fozzle in his blog."

The concept of an NDA eludes you. If they spill the beans they get prosecuted.

Anonymous said...

"I have 3 accounts, I voted on none of them. What's the point? CCP is going to do whatever the hell they want anyway. The CSM looks like nothing but a sham."

The CSM looks the way it does because you and people like you didn't vote. If you don't like it then vote for change and try to rally everyone you know to do the same, you can't really complain about the CSM otherwise.

Anonymous said...

Chance is WingspanTT. He was in the This is EVE video.. so he's hardly a nobody.

Gevlon said...

@Provi Miner: Core signed the document of shame. End of story.

daniel said...

lorelei said:
"@Daniel - If one does not at least try to change us clueless players into players with a clue... then nothing will change."

and this is exactly it.
why the demand towards others?
why not change and educate you yourself?
allthough i dislike that ccp doesn't advertise the csm election properly in the launcher, on the other hand it' players with that attitude that shoudln't be voting - just like in the real world where most people buy a newspaper every day, but only read it for the sportnews; tbh, i do not really want them to vote for a government, cause their choice won't be an educated (good) one.
cagali got the most brave/hero votes, was he really the best brave/hero candidate?


gev said:
" I've never even heard the name Chance Ravinne before[...]"

that you still not educate yourself too much about this game is well known.

Gevlon said...

@Daniel: I've read his campaign post again and again after he got elected https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=398366

I still don't see an error when I classified him as "troll" and couldn't be bothered to google more about him.

I see neither past achievements nor future promises in that post, just buzzwords.

Anonymous said...

"The concept of an NDA eludes you. If they spill the beans they get prosecuted."

I understand the concept of an NDA. And that it essentially neuters the CSM. It's hard to be a "Player Advocate" if you can't tell the players things until it is too late. It's like having a lawyer that can't tell you about why you're on trial until after the verdict is read.

"The CSM looks the way it does because you and people like you didn't vote. If you don't like it then vote for change and try to rally everyone you know to do the same, you can't really complain about the CSM otherwise."

The old "If you don't vote, you don't have the right to complain" fallacy. I'm not complaining about the CSM, I just see them as a publicity stunt. I'm sure Sugar Kyle, who clearly works very hard at this, would take offense... and I'm sorry that it would, but that doesn't change the fact that CCP will do whatever they want under the umbrella of NDA and tell you about it later.

Anonymous said...

"@Anonymous: I've never even heard the name Chance Ravinne before I made the election recommendation post and then I considered him a random troll who applied while drunk."

That you have never heard of him says nothing about his e-popularity. That you consider people you had not heard of to be random trolls who applied is neither here nor there.

That you cannot be bothered to research for 5 seconds on google before declaring someone a troll does not make your declaration fact.

People who do not bother to research frequently get mocked by yourself, do you hold yourself to different standards?

Gevlon said...

I meant that I considered him a troll AFTER reading his introduction post. He cited no skills, achievements or plans.