Greedy Goblin

Friday, February 13, 2015

If you check the INIT killboard history for January...

After the Evil One literally sold their home, The Initiative went to Immensea to get new one while retaining their minionship. Despite they failed to capture meaningful amount of Sov, they declared "op success". Their reasoning for being awesome is "If you check the Init KB history for January we killed 4,344 ships for a total of 651B isk vs a loss of 1,850 ships for 149.5B isk." And that's true.

Too bad that the "Init KB history" is both seriously inaccurate and useless. I already had the CFC losses dowloaded for January and now received the Initiative kills. The first problem is that their losses aren't 149.5B. Below you can see all the 50M+ Initiative losses: 1825M, 1609M, 1946M, 2481M, 537M, 546M, 1669M, 117M, 596M, 561M, 488M, 525M, 503M, 233M, 514M, 189M, 552M, 193M, 188M, 283M, 506M, 509M, 509M, 511M, 534M, 62M, 494M, 511M, 505M, 525M, 523M, 522M, 508M, 565M, 530M, 535M, 518M, 568M, 514M, 510M, 492M, 603M, 635M, 970M, 597M, 576M, 210M, 129M, 165M, 230M, 205M, 227M, 242M, 225M, 158M, 158M, 57M, 229M, 53M, 571M, 459M, 470M, 443M, 236M, 1090M, 489M, 560M, 476M, 479M, 616M, 459M, 475M, 439M, 476M, 478M, 316M, 480M, 235M, 466M, 467M, 891M, 447M, 467M, 612M, 643M, 452M, 84M, 70M, 134M, 55M, 154M, 160M, 356M, 159M, 277M, 162M, 351M, 411M, 185M, 268M, 200M, 114M, 69M, 69M, 190M, 199M, 50M, 53M, 159M, 199M, 199M, 196M, 176M, 161M, 78M, 90M, 52M, 66M, 68M, 67M, 57M, 71M, 56M, 59M, 194M, 88M, 63M, 77M, 91M, 88M, 52M, 60M, 200M, 200M, 200M, 148M, 173M, 171M, 52M, 53M, 89M, 84M, 533M, 76M, 100M, 189M, 59M, 69M, 58M, 74M, 58M, 53M, 58M, 78M, 70M, 73M, 73M, 206M, 496M, 491M, 160M, 172M, 161M, 494M, 317M, 147M, 87M, 213M, 219M, 165M, 239M, 132M, 487M, 240M, 542M, 61M, 939M, 85M, 158M, 146M, 473M, 66M, 63M, 415M, 468M, 517M, 81M, 187M, 186M, 60M, 71M, 285M, 90M, 94M, 56M, 110M, 232M, 245M, 220M, 237M, 234M, 198M, 90M, 73M, 92M, 59M, 326M, 54M, 200M, 200M, 228M, 210M, 200M, 158M, 61M, 170M, 211M, 60M, 187M, 54M, 220M, 159M, 75M, 95M, 203M, 205M, 222M, 710M, 123M, 87M, 242M, 235M, 146M, 68M, 156M, 326M, 60M, 58M, 56M, 80M, 526M, 212M, 210M, 229M, 163M, 230M, 219M, 231M, 227M, 224M, 123M, 233M, 212M, 198M, 317M, 221M, 219M, 211M, 211M, 236M, 229M, 236M, 247M, 227M, 238M, 245M, 234M, 225M, 208M, 239M, 613M, 164M, 174M, 120M, 161M, 161M, 161M, 167M, 236M, 160M, 165M, 62M, 161M, 95M, 129M, 143M, 123M, 193M, 56M, 65M, 100M, 100M, 96M, 68M, 278M, 717M, 250M, 229M, 63M, 99M, 99M, 70M, 413M, 127M, 82M, 118M, 232M, 219M, 223M, 227M, 215M, 225M, 204M, 63M, 58M, 219M, 162M, 225M, 220M, 214M, 224M, 158M, 157M, 158M, 196M, 82M, 492M, 85M, 216M, 104M, 103M, 129M, 99M, 113M, 65M, 95M, 101M, 594M, 103M, 183M, 185M, 191M, 184M, 343M, 159M, 78M, 206M, 205M, 56M, 321M, 300M, 996M, 62M, 195M, 185M, 215M, 67M, 236M, 71M, 77M, 65M, 116M, 66M, 277M, 173M, 214M, 194M, 66M, 166M, 157M, 159M, 157M, 159M, 159M, 54M, 127M, 512M, 61M, 246M, 244M, 80M, 117M, 54M, 116M, 237M, 69M, 61M, 197M, 84M, 609M, 178M, 111M, 117M, 212M, 231M, 356M, 211M, 248M, 214M, 213M, 237M, 232M, 244M, 217M, 338M, 231M, 117M, 246M, 226M, 230M, 216M, 220M, 234M, 212M, 210M, 156M, 210M, 211M, 256M, 229M, 226M, 241M, 214M, 211M, 235M, 233M, 216M, 240M, 237M, 223M, 233M, 216M, 239M, 63M, 217M, 213M, 221M, 223M, 112M, 233M, 70M, 57M, 59M, 97M, 82M, 147M, 145M, 147M, 163M, 133M, 211M, 76M, 146M, 182M, 65M, 80M, 55M, 155M, 157M, 298M, 56M, 56M, 72M, 165M, 266M, 63M, 910M, 150M, 419M, 62M, 7698M, 205M, 227M, 225M, 206M, 51M, 223M, 215M, 219M, 229M, 222M, 226M, 99M, 206M, 229M, 192M, 214M, 116M, 187M, 255M, 100M, 115M, 54M, 196M, 193M, 184M, 485M, 60M, 116M, 100M, 880M, 192M, 192M, 290M, 194M, 215M, 399M, 106M, 208M, 230M, 211M, 239M, 230M, 190M, 233M, 160M, 347M, 157M, 218M, 80M, 80M, 62M, 170M, 158M, 158M, 58M, 161M, 236M, 236M, 156M, 100M, 165M, 238M, 117M, 223M, 191M, 191M, 191M, 191M, 74M, 54M, 60M, 551M, 445M, 66M, 176M, 2843M, 117M, 193M, 914M, 98M, 193M, 183M, 114M, 80M, 199M, 78M, 118M, 674M, 51M, 68M, 264M, 56M, 361M, 521M, 352M, 352M, 617M, 362M, 315M, 88M, 212M, 231M, 218M, 154M, 227M, 221M, 211M, 228M, 209M, 59M, 67M, 65M, 74M, 59M, 203M, 57M, 63M, 126M, 242M, 1092M, 140M, 52M, 102M, 59M, 62M, 186M, 116M, 60M, 73M, 194M, 63M, 64M, 233M, 108M, 77M, 58M, 57M, 185M, 188M, 96M, 208M, 290M, 273M, 206M, 53M, 144M, 60M, 53M, 731M, 184M, 546M, 60M, 130M, 68M, 77M, 56M, 82M, 207M, 211M, 208M, 250M, 218M, 69M, 5433M, 67M, 69M, 205M, 68M, 206M, 195M, 84M, 775M, 209M, 93M, 206M, 217M, 108M, 250M, 346M, 283M, 58M, 83M, 412M, 209M, 50M, 412M, 209M, 68M, 61M, 1374M, 122M, 69M, 65M, 334M, 336M, 340M, 336M, 78M, 83M, 100M, 59M, 76M, 57M, 404M, 174M, 84M, 79M, 60M, 107M, 107M, 129M, 107M, 111M, 206M, 77M, 80M, 73M, 94M, 205M, 336M, 55M, 58M, 69M, 51M, 53M, 69M, 245M, 66M, 67M, 209M, 59M, 72M, 55M, 301M, 1099M, 59M, 86M, 89M, 60M, 286M, 59M, 80M, 120M, 100M, 899M, 131M, 57M, 51M, 192M, 267M, 442M, 524M.

Feel free to click on any of them, they are all legitimate, API verified kills from Zkillboard. Their sum is 180.5B, just add them up yourself. This is bigger than 149 and you can verify that my number is right. On top of these, there are 19.7B losses of below-50M ships. Now I can't blame the Init leadership for believing stats, but the stats are seriously off. I don't know if it's some weird coding error or a deliberate attempt to make their users feel better about themselves and urge others to visit their Zkillboard page. It's an old problem by the way: check out the Goonwaffe statistics and you'll see 119.2B losses for 2013 January. Too bad that they lost a 118B and a 107B titan in Asakai, so they must have lost at least 225B.

Being wrong is the smaller problem with the kill data. It says 651B kills and I've found only 600B. I can't prove it as easily as I did with losses, but if you believe Zkillboard stats after what they did with losses, you are dumb. Now the bigger problem is that the 600B means that Initiative pilots got on 600B worth of kills, not that they killed the ships. Below you see a list of ships with 50M+ value and less than 50% Initiative contribution: 2/61M, 0/243M, 0/240M, 0/238M, 0/162M, 16/56M, 10/66M, 1/253M, 7/72M, 74/245M, 3/169M, 2/245M, 96/248M, 47/252M, 52/246M, 242/543M, 1/64M, 98/333M, 116/237M, 233/533M, 3/55M, 1/52M, 0/387M, 0/577M, 1/97M, 8/633M, 0/176M, 1/51M, 15/67M, 0/216M, 143/550M, 250/551M, 0/177M, 0/213M, 20/225M, 0/228M, 3/553M, 3/57M, 4/53M, 0/117M, 19/242M, 16/234M, 0/54M, 13/236M, 24/226M, 6/61M, 14/252M, 9/215M, 3/165M, 0/55M, 1/52M, 0/51M, 0/59M, 33/598M, 0/156M, 1/232M, 1/265M, 2/244M, 2/63M, 14/176M, 41/196M, 0/54M, 2/54M, 1/58M, 4/323M, 1/58M, 0/56M, 1/71M, 0/552M, 0/491M, 0/492M, 0/490M, 0/492M, 5/66M, 112/1364M, 65/1682M, 0/223M, 3/192M, 42/338M, 13/249M, 136/375M, 4/253M, 9/231M, 4/241M, 12/241M, 0/214M, 10/121M, 12/58M, 5/243M, 0/233M, 78/287M, 0/325M, 161/561M, 2/206M, 0/255M, 43/291M, 0/192M, 40/105M, 13/246M, 57/275M, 104/272M, 88/255M, 14/58M, 100/233M, 80/262M, 25/224M, 57/253M, 69/271M, 95/215M, 114/256M, 3/53M, 99/269M, 100/256M, 81/271M, 2/58M, 0/257M, 1/208M, 0/270M, 1/59M, 0/255M, 0/308M, 0/232M, 0/375M, 2/133M, 0/251M, 0/59M, 0/61M, 0/62M, 2/338M, 3/315M, 1/60M, 1/236M, 2/57M, 2/206M, 0/286M, 1/77M, 0/60M, 0/111M, 0/192M, 9/89M, 3/111M, 3/111M, 14/77M, 26/56M, 15/218M, 4/2505M, 127/297M, 5/65M, 761/1532M, 0/77M, 43/241M, 51/244M, 22/65M, 27/98M, 6/227M, 9/227M, 6/262M, 3/62M, 4/158M, 0/353M, 8/162M, 4/223M, 1270/4844M, 85/184M, 14/203M, 0/70M, 26/94M, 45/93M, 71/215M, 159/563M, 0/85M, 0/428M, 0/863M, 81/245M, 1/149M, 0/72M, 639/1806M, 39/82M, 1380/3201M, 1088/3252M, 111/245M, 1/185M, 0/56M, 5/59M, 18/56M, 1937/29424M, 2/65M, 2/235M, 857/25279M, 1664/35809M, 24/57M, 1517/24230M, 0/176M, 0/2934M, 1746/30106M, 1167/24566M, 568/28017M, 1055/30534M, 21/102209M, 116/665M, 216/597M, 40/238M, 127/592M, 27/605M, 90/590M, 110/605M, 69/604M, 119/601M, 53/598M, 48/232M, 28/233M, 2/279M, 42/230M, 63/231M, 43/229M, 72/226M, 18/331M, 91/228M, 45/225M, 97/231M, 59/644M, 38/2472M, 0/169M, 0/203M, 0/247M.

My favorite is the infamous I want ISK titan which received 0.02% of its damage from Initiative pilot(s), but proudly provides 1/6 of the Initiative January kills. The sad truth is that the total kill contribution of The Initiative is only 203B, moving their ISK ratio to 50.4% from the 81.3% you see on the Zkillboard stat page. Below you can see the real ISK ratio of The Initiative against various enemies, sorted by total activity (kills+losses, B ISK):

I wonder how many "PvP-ers" derive their self-esteem from whored and numerically inaccurate statistics. I fixed it for The Initiative now, from "We won fights and we lost fights, more won than lost :)" to "we are totally mediocre". You're welcome!

Now, this is a 100% contribution, 1.9B Mordus Angels kill, while this is a 92% contribution, 1B -EH- kill.


Manserk said...

Do you know why zkillboard is so off the stats ? it didn't count the titan kills at all...

Raziel Walker said...

A shame real killboards wouldn't get used if they dewhored killmails.

Ryanis said...

That's propaganda data: of course they are false... you can justify anything you want with numbers.

Anonymous said...

1.) Killboards make vistors feel good by showing this ridicilous "whored" ISK-ratio. If it feels good to see your "awesome numbers", you are more likely to return to the page.
2.) Killboard internet sites can produce revenue for their hosters by adverts. The more visitors come, the more revenue they can earn.
3.) 1 + 2 are totally unrelated.

Unknown said...

so many people start wanking when they see their own personal killboard statistics, although they know on how many kills they just whored themselves onto the killmail.

these statistics are ridiculous because they inflate kills to a multitude x times bigger than were actually lost.

Anyone who took a shot at a 1B faction BS gets 1B kill on his scoreboard. If 20 people shoot it, it makes 20B worth of kills, Were 20B isk lost? Not really, but in a way yes, 1B ISK of faction BS was lost and 19B isk worth of truthful information were lost as well.

Curiously the killboard data include the percentage of damage inflicted by every player on a kill, so even the operators of such sites should be able to de-whore the kills and display an efficiency related killboard.

Oh wonder, most of the elite pilots would really suffer and a lot of miners would have a happy look at oh so "elite pvp pilots" who wouldn't look as dangerous now with a de-whored kill data sheet.

On the other hand, I'd advice any PVE carebear, miner or industrialist who lives in a player run corp or one man corp to visit SPECTRE FLEET, a NPSI community and join their fleets for one or two weeks. I garantuee that every pilot will be killboard green and have awesome PVP statistics... Maybe that could be a way to discourage hisec wardeccers from attacking your corp...

Anonymous said...

One also assumes the people that WRITE the killboard code benefit from having THEIR kills whored up to the moon as well.

I think Gevlon pointed out long ago that a system that honestly portrayed everyone's PvP status would be poorly received since the majority would simply suck.

Imagine having your null Alliance being given data that points out how much your members suck.

Oh wait! There is such a place!

Anonymous said...

Rather than not divide credit between those who give assists, a KB could multiply losses according to the number of those who assist. That would even up the disparity.