Greedy Goblin

Thursday, July 24, 2014

What does TiDi tell us about EVE?

TiDi is an anti-lag mechanic, increasing the cycle time of modules, therefore decreasing the amount of server queries the player can reasonably start. But that's not the topic here. The interesting thing is that TiDi is unique to EVE. No other game operates with TiDi. Instead, they operate with size limits. When WoW servers were lagged to hell by Wintergrasp battles, Blizzard put a hard player cap on the battles, turning it into yet another battleground, abandoning the "epic battle" plan. Even more strangely, no developer implemented TiDi after it clearly proved itself for EVE. Why?

The reason is that EVE is strategic game that could operate in a turn-based mode (and CCP probably should implement a turn-based mode for battles where TiDi is not enough), while the other MMOs are twitch games where the outcome is decided by click speed and accuracy. I mean an EVE battle in TiDi gives the same outcome as without TiDi (excluding reinforcements arriving because of TiDi), it's just boring, like having to wait for long minutes for the opponent in a chess game. The outcome of a WoW raid in TiDi would be very different. Practically everyone who is capable of defeating the boss in flexible difficulty (2/4) is also capable to defeat the boss in heroic (4/4) difficulty under 10% TiDi, assuming he has the gear to kill it before enrage. Why? Because the difficulty of heroic raiding is moving fast and organized, without error. If you don't notice the incoming fire and don't jump away, you are dead. In TiDi, no one would ever stand in the fire.

Realizing this helps a lot understanding why EVE is unique: it's the only strategic MMO on the market. Here the usual "game skillz" worth nil. It doesn't matter how fast you click, how well you you practiced a hard combo, because there isn't much, like in a Civilization or Chess. EVE is a game played with a brain and not with muscle memory.

CCP could make the game better by emphasizing this, allowing players to run short macros to eliminate the last twitch elements, for example to manually execute an MWD-cloak trick or to approach a target while upkeeping transversal.

PS: Evidence that highsec wars and null pirates like MoA do totally nothing as Goonies just laugh of the losses and YOLO and whatever their propaganda squad claim:
He is right. The corp image is very important if you are in the prestigious elite PvP alliance of The Bastion. By the way the author of these mails is best known for properly using an out-of-corp alt to JF to Jita... during Burn Jita.


Provi Miner said...

I so disagree in the specific. A: bombing runs (without tidi) 1: align twords target 2: select warp out 3: deactivate cloak 4 launch bomb 5 initiate warp. you fail at anyone of this almost simultaneously you die. Same for getting out gate camps with cloaky ships or interceptors.

Bottom line while true that twitch reflex is lessened there are "combo's" to staying alive in non tidi situations.

Piter Presley said...

It depends highly on the size of the battle and your ship.

Frig PVP is very reflex based, while even small gank PVP in cruisers + logi is more like a strategy game.

Anonymous said...

"I mean an EVE battle in TiDi gives the same outcome as without TiDi"

And this is where you are wrong. Pvp in eve still bases on reflexes when not dealing with very large battles. 1v1 or small-medium gangs require fast decision making at both command and execution levels. Tidi makes it much simpler.

CFC Grunt said...

So wait, let me get this straight: you rip away at the CFC for not being elite because they're in a blob, yet Marmite who often outnumber their enemies in hisec (and are rather known for running to the station when something that can actually kill them shows up) are elite PvP?

At least be fair...

Jeff Kione said...

I can't even imagine what TiDi would be like in WoW. Blizzard's philosophy has been to try to kill you before the healers can react this expansion, with everything changing next expansion. Soon it'll be normal for raid members to be under their max health because you have to make choices on who to heal. It's sort of like TiDi, slowing things down from a healing perspective.

PS: If TiDi was implemented correctly in WoW, it shouldn't be easier to get kills. Someone who noticed too late before should still notice too late now, and if they tried to move their character it would take 10x as long, and the notification of incoming damage would be 10x delayed.

Gevlon said...

@CFC Grunt: "Elite PvP" isn't a complement. Anyone using the term seriously is a hypocrite. The joke is on the CEO for trying to look "elite" while the official CFC propaganda is "no one cares".

@Jeff: the time for evading the attack is reaction_time + movement_time. It's slower than attack_time, you get hit. In TiDi, the movement and attack times grow, but reaction time doesn't.

Anonymous said...

The CFC doesn't seem to care though, not about the impact of a bunch of idiots dying. Some individual corps however still do like to look at killboards for some weird reason. Your campaign has been going on for months, and what's changed? Nothing. They CFC are still the same force they were and still irrelevant to most us in highsec, moreso now they can go and do their own industry.

The funny thing is though, the fact that this CEO states it is further proof that the CFC don't care at all, since if their "we don't care" was propaganda, they'd be protective of that image and punish people for posting such things against it.