Friday, May 23, 2014

The man who dies rich dies disgraced

Andrew Carnegie was a XIX century industrialist, billionaire (in current $ terms) and philantrophist. He gave away his amassed wealth for charity, explaining it with the title of the post. It means our wealth will be no longer ours anyway when we inevitably die. However by giving it away, we can decide its fate, instead of leaving it to be wasted by relatives.

Our "lifespan" in video games is very short. One who stops logging in forever is dead for the community and his wealth becomes unaccessible. Also, money itself does nothing. Actions with it do. Simply amassing wealth and luxury items make no difference to the game world when we are no longer playing. However if we give it away in our "lifetime", we can make sure that it makes difference.

I have no idea how rich I am compared to the other EVE billionaires. No one can know the wealth of other players, probably not even devs, due to the large number of alts and corps used by the rich. Hell, I would face a several hours task to add up my wealth in various accounts and instruments.

But the part I have doesn't matter. It would disappear if I wouldn't log in again. What matters is the part that I've given away. It's the GRR project, a charity organization to fight the prime evil in EVE: Goons. While the project would shrink badly I'd stop p(l)aying, but their already done actions and their consequences remain in the game World. The popped Goons won't get their ships back.

There are many rich people in EVE, but most of them do nothing with their wealth. They'll die disgraced. I wonder why don't they participate more in the game world. Do they believe they can't make a difference? If so, they are wrong. There are many organizations that are in need of ISK and could do more with a bigger SRP. Or are they socials who collect luxury items in hope of getting peer respect? 10th titan that doesn't log in?

Of course there is an alternative: they aren't as rich as they claim. Sure they don't have to rat to replace a lost cruiser, but they can't give dozens of billions away. Maybe they never had it. Maybe they RMT-ed it. Maybe it was taken by CCP for exploiting. Anyway, they have the image of wealth, without the power of wealth.

You can't know how rich I am. But you can be sure that I afford giving away 8B a week for the GRR project, to pay wardecs against the slaves of Evil. That's more than a billion a day. If you are rich, you should do the same: find a cause and put your money in it. Don't die disgraced!


PS: Goon soon-to-be-capital down!

17 comments:

mugg said...

I gave a bunch to the most recent PLEX for good, maybe it helped someone a little.

Anonymous said...

So how much gold do you have sitting on your WoW account?

Gevlon said...

I left WoW exactly because I realized there is no world in it. It's a parallel single-player game.

Provi Miner said...

hmm I think your post is a misrepresentation. Not your fault a lot of folks buy into A.C.'s words. I know I did for a long. My local Libary is a result of his foundation. but lets be clear here he didn't do all the good for some noble self sacrificing reason. His life ended the same way he lived it in direct competition with Rockafeller. A.C. didn't start his campaign till after he realized what Rock was doing, then it became a direct competition till A.C. died. So take a robber barons words with a huge grain of salt.

L Papay said...

it has nothing to do with "nobility"

Money is means to an end, nothing more.

Wealthy man does not let his assets sit idly in bank would. He puts them to use. Turns idea of wealth into tangible assets or services (or promise of them in future).

Which is why most of the lottery winners just squander their wealth. They have money and no bloody idea what to do with them.

Think of money as "frozen" energy. You can use it to power construction machinery, war machine or a dildo. Your choice.

JimL said...

"There are many rich people in EVE, but most of them do nothing with their wealth. They'll die disgraced. I wonder why don't they participate more in the game world."

You regularly shown disdain for people who use their wealth to have fun in expensive ships which they eventually.

"Of course there is an alternative: they aren't as rich as they claim. Sure they don't have to rat to replace a lost cruiser, but they can't give dozens of billions away. Maybe they never had it. Maybe they RMT-ed it. Maybe it was taken by CCP for exploiting. Anyway, they have the image of wealth, without the power of wealth.

You can't know how rich I am. But you can be sure that I afford giving away 8B a week for the GRR project, to pay wardecs against the slaves of Evil."


Evidently Goons (and their associates) are rich enough that they can afford to lose many multiples of the amount of money you pay for wardecs against them (as you often point out) and not even really have it affect them.

Think about that.

mugg said...

"It's a parallel single-player game."

You can play Eve or WoW like that, or you can play them like an MMO by being social. It's your anti-social attitude that makes them single-player.

maxim said...

I don't care much whether he was a robber baron or not.
The point itself - that just accumulating wealth and doing nothing with it is disgraceful - is a very valid point.

Thing is, though, until we figure out how exactly and to what extent game experiences transfer to outside world, everything good done within a game is just accumulation of good that is not going to be "spent" in real world.

Lucas Kell said...

Giving isk to Lemmings has about the same long term effect as buying stacks of skillbooks from NPCs then trashing them in your hanger. Many of us could afford it, but know it's a completely pointless venture, and in all honesty, the wrong crowd. I know you dislike goons, but Lemmings aren't exactly good people. From my experience with them in fleets, the majority appear to be immature racists. I'll continue to put my isk where it matters. Things like plex for good, or even just randomly helping out a noob are far more deserving places for isk.

The difference between other players and yourself though is a lot of us don't need the recognition of the masses of how wealthy we are or how we spend that wealth. It's strange to be that someone who rejects social interaction at the level you do finds it so important to ensure others know about your wealth.

Anonymous said...

True words remain true even when they come from a bad person or are spoken with the wrong or a veiled intent.
The point is: you can choose to make a difference by how you use your wealth. That is true.
Keeping it for yourself only matters to yourself. Spending it matters to many, if not all, because it influences the sandbox.

Anonymous said...

@Lucas

Your on-going denial that trillions in cumulative ISK loss has no effect is ringing increasingly hollow.

The ISK that Gevlon has spent on these wars has multiplied itself in its effects -- it casts a long shadow (kind of like your posts in Gevlon's comments sections).

Lucas Kell said...

@Anonymous
"Your on-going denial that trillions in cumulative ISK loss has no effect is ringing increasingly hollow. "
OK, so show me the effect then. From my point of view, nothing has changed. We haven't had to cut any corners, SRP is actually better overall and we seem to be holding power just as well as ever. I'm not opposed to the idea that there might be an effect, but as of yet none has been evidenced. All that has been said is "look at these losses, there must be an effect". There no actual evidence, just the assumption that losses must have a profound effect.

The main thing you guys seem to miss, and you often just tell us how we are just lying, is that we live in null sec. Highsec losses are on the individual, they don't affect the group. And I know, there's this whole theory that ganking a high sec ratting battleship means that our fleet number will decline while those people rat, but so far that's also not been evidenced. A combination of the afktar and tidi in most of our fleets means that we can get a lot of ratting done while on fleets, not to mention that most people make money from SRP if they die, so it's a good thing to show up to.

Highsec wars against any null group is likely to generate a lot of kills with little repercussions, and that's exactly why groups like Marmite attack null groups. It keeps their killboard efficiency numbers high.

But please, by all means evidence the effect the wars are having on us. It's certainly something I'd be very interested to see.

Anonymous said...

"A combination of the afktar and tidi in most of our fleets means that we can get a lot of ratting done while on fleets"

I wonder how effective targeting the ratters during a strategic battle would be? Would the spilt in attention be enough to damage the cohesion of the main fleet and give the opposition advantage? A few stealth bombers may not affect the main battle much, especially in tidi, but might hurt morale in the main fleet if they can rat.

Anonymous said...

@Lucas Kell
"I know you dislike goons, but Lemmings aren't exactly good people. From my experience with them in fleets, the majority appear to be immature racists"

What the hell are you talking about ?!

There are no racists in my Alliance or my Fleets.

I simply would not allow it !

Lucas i have read a lot of your Posts but what you wrote now is pure shit and untrue !

Doc Know

Anonymous said...

There are many rich people in EVE, but most of them do nothing with their wealth.

Really? What is your proof that the many wealthy people in eve don't do anything with their wealth?

They'll die disgraced.

Who will die disgraced, specifically? There are plenty of "eve famous" people who are rich who do plenty with their money and who have been part of the narrative of the game which has driven it's continued popularity over the years.

I wonder why don't they participate more in the game world.

Because eve's "game world" isn't where you influence, or make isk really. The "real" game of eve is the metagame. Why would you participate in a game world when you can have vastly more influence by driving the game from outside?

Do they believe they can't make a difference?

No, many of them know they can make a difference, and in fact do

There are many organizations that are in need of ISK and could do more with a bigger SRP.

But why would you give money to an organization if doing so didn't drive YOUR goals? Surely just giving it away is horrible socialist altruism?

Or are they socials who collect luxury items in hope of getting peer respect?

Collection as a hobby is rarely about "peer respect". It is it's own reward. There are only really a handful of "serious" eve collectors though.

Of course there is an alternative: they aren't as rich as they claim.

Ahh now we get to it. The crux of your post. "I'm richer than everyone because I assert that they are not as rich as they claim". The thinly veiled air of superiority that we've all grown to expect.

Sure they don't have to rat to replace a lost cruiser, but they can't give dozens of billions away.

Maybe they don't *need* to give dozens of billions away? Maybe the organisations that they work in are sufficiently wealthy that it isn't necessary?

Maybe they never had it.

Maybe! boy guessing games are fun!

Maybe they RMT-ed it.

Thinly veiled accusation that wealthy goons are RMTers. Is Gevlon one of Dinsdale's aliases?


Maybe it was taken by CCP for exploiting.

Stealth "Mynnna is an exploiter" post.

Anyway, they have the image of wealth, without the power of wealth.

Here you go from suggesting they are not wealthy to flatly stating that they are not wealthy. I saw what you did there...

maxim said...

@ last anon
So you say that there are plenty of Eve-rich people and they exercise power over the game from outside.

Can you back that claim by giving some recent examples of how exactly these people are using their wealth to impact Eve?

Metagame is a nice empty word to hide behind. Please prove the impact of these metagame efforts you speak of.

Anonymous said...

With all that has happened, u have big trillionaire powerblocs. When you as a small alliance was to perform a project, you get told to F-Off after you ask them for isk help. But own 600billion or even 10 times that. The game is dying, and i will most likely quit playing as struggling to keep things afloat has drained me considerably. The guys in my alliance i lead are awesome, but they are only a few. What u say Gev is true, but they hoard their isk, and then sit on top and dictate to the slaves what to do why they sit on top getting fatter, and others just suffer, and in hundreds of cases, have people give in and join cfc, and give in and quit playing altogther. Even if you could Gevlon, you cannot help everyone. There is not isk to fight people like CFC.

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