Greedy Goblin

Tuesday, March 11, 2014

Memoirs of a wormhole zombie

I wrote that wormhole space is infected with zombies: barely active players who occupy the wormholes keeping new players away and providing no combat opportunities to anyone. Since theories worth little without proof, I turned into a wormhole zombie myself. But that will be the topic of a business post this week. What I want to write now is the comedy how my unlife ended. About business all you have to know now that I evacuated everything from my WH two months ago when I started the GRR project, all that's left was a Minmatar POS with 30 online guns, 40 EWAR modules, 62-57-57-57 resists and a bunch of Epithals. The largest value in my POS was the fuel, not counting the Rokh and the Hulk of my girlfirend which couldn't be carried out, so considered lost anyway.

So on Friday evening, in the usual time I logged in to restart extractors. Casually dscanned and it was full of ships. OK, a WH alliance is travelling trough a chain to highsec, I can't care less. But when I finished the extractors, I saw them on grid with the POS. A 40+ Goon-RvB fleet. Somehow they found my WH and now they came for the large loot and tears. They will now show who's the man! Let me remind you that they picked the time when I logged in on a daily basis, and they entered the WH while I was online, visible in the POS. Goons are dumb.

Since I was online, I logged in my POS gunner and got to work. I manned the ECM batteries and jammed the logies. Ships popped one by one, with a pretty blinged one too. Then the Goons sent away the kitchen sink ships, keeping only the well tanked Ishtars on the POS and got more Scimis, so they stopped dying:

OK, what shall I do now? I checked the corp hangar array and found some random crap inside, plus leftover PI material. I filled them into ships and put those back to the ship maintenance array. SMA remains active when the POS is reinforced, the CHA doesn't. But still, some PI materials were in the CHA and I had no more ships. What shall I do? I warped my scanner off the POS (no bubbles) to a far safe and launched combat probes to be less obvious and scanned down the signatures. I've found the N110 (the highsec static of my C1 wormhole), warped there to see if there is a hole in the bubblecage... and there were no bubbles. No camp either. So I started freighting PI stuff out while an eviction fleet was on grid. After 3 ships got out, Goons realized that they are idiots and placed a camp on the static. Still no bubbles of course.

After these I went to bed. In the morning I've found that 40+ Goonies spent 4 hours shooting my POS and the POCOs:
I did a dscan and saw nothing. Did I forget to add warp bubbles to the overview? No, Goons forgot to plant them. So I casually freighted out the random crap, the unneccessary fuel and the PI stuff in the Epithals stored in the SMA. Some random Goons tried to catch me, but fitting more than 1 point of warp disruption is just as hard as planting bubbles. So the POS evacuation was complete, save for some cap boosters and PI mats that got locked in the CHA. What shall I do now?

Then I got a crazy idea. Luck was on my side as I did a PI haul just a day before:
You can see P2 materials in that batch, which means P1.5 planets in my WH, which means they are fully restocked with P1. How about salvaging that too? So off I went to visit POCOs during an eviction. I got most out with only random bombers pointing me with less strength than my warp stabs.

Finally they figured out the solution: interdictors perma-bubbling the static wormhole. No, still no anchored bubbles:

I simply sent my T1 hauler to orbit the wormhole on the highsec side and every now and then jump in, jump out. They camped like their life depending on it, whenever I jumped, the bubbles were there. Finally they figured how to fight back. They got bumping battleships to keep my AFK-orbiting industrial out of range:

After a few hours they got a better idea and suicide ganked it. They used 4 catas for a 4K EHP T1 indy in 0.6, where a single T1 cata could do the job, but - as we know - Goons are dumb:

After a few more hours I went back and found that they finally anchored bubbles. I was too brave and tried to cross the bubbles, escorted by a Blackbird. They had 3!!! sabres to bubble them until they killed the hauler with pod and the Blackbird with my old suicide ganker pod. Now my former suicide ganker pilot was in highsec, so I got into a ganky cata and returned to shoot bubbles. Killed a large T2 one, when a Sabre decloaked and engaged the Catalyst with guns. I'm still puzzled what was he thinking. After this event, they upgraded their camp with a Proteus, a Brutix, a Tornado and 2 more Sabres. They needed it, after one of the old ones found a clever way to die. Being 100% sure that the POS holds large value, they commanded their pets into action:

This was in Saturday afternoon. I went on trading, doing normal stuff and alarm clocked to 3 AM. Jumped in a Catalyst, hellcamp with 5 ships is still there and locked me immediately (I jumped back to higsec). These morons were up for more than 10 hours constantly camping the static. What they didn't do is scanning around, so they missed a K162, a wormhole that connected my system to lowsec. So I logged in one of the PI pilots and hauled out 3 more transports of PI from the POCOs, before Goons realized that "wormhole control" includes ... wormholes. So the ones on the bottom right of the screenshot and a Falcon closed it. They went back camping the static, I went back to sleep.

During downtime I've read my old WH posts waiting to log in to make screenshots of the Goon fleet and realized what's missing from this post: No Holes Barred showing up to gank. Then I logged in, warped to the static perch and found:

I swear I didn't call them or have any idea how they got here or why. I blued NOHO only to distinguish them on the overview. They popped the two campers and criticalled the hole. When Goons popped it from the outside, they criticalled the new one. Finally I asked the FC to convo me to figure out what's going on:

Bizarre. They first offered to ransom me for a song. Then they offered to protect me ... for a song. I really don't want to know what kind of internet pictures these guys are watching during their "private minutes". Anyway, I offered them a financial deal: I give them the POS (by inviting an alt to the corp and making it CEO), so they can sell it later. I would only get some upset Goons who have to form up again to re-reinforce. But NOHO only wanted the song, so no deal was made and they let the "Goon" fleet in:
Red: Goon. Orange: RvB. As usual, the pets do the structure work for the Goons. Since they jumped in 13:33 EVE time and the fleet was called for "right after Sunday DT", they were in fleet waiting for NOHO letting them in for more than 2 hours. Being a pet is lot of waiting and structure shooting.

My tower popped one last goon and exploded. But RvB couldn't celebrate, as the promised riches weren't in the CHA and the only things of value in the SMA were the Hulk and the Rokh that couldn't be evacuated. Finally NOHO slain them like... pets. They lost 1.81B (+Rokh), which is much more than what I've lost and placed the crown on their op.

After that NOHO spent about an hour killing POS modules. Did I mention that they are weird? When they left, I came back in Epithals and finished removing PI from the POCOs. After that I warped back to the ruins and picked the remains and left the Wormhole:

Later I've seen on the killboard that the POCOs fell. Since the first fell at 17:45, and the last at 19:14, with formup, this was another 2 hours fleet for the 40 participants. There isn't a single Goon on the kills by the way, the Noble Goons are above such mundane tasks, it's for pets only.

I won't lie: while in the last days I laughed a lot on the series of fails and mishaps of the Goons and their pets, leaving was a sad moment. Not only because I liked that WH, but because it's one thing to know that you must live in Empire or NPC null if you want to fight Goons, it's another to see it first-hand. I know that until the Goons are defeated, I can't live in Null or WH space, can't have a "space home". This is the price that everyone must pay who don't want to live as a Goon pet.

Did it worth it? I mean wouldn't it be easier to just become a Goon pet? If you really ask that, please look at RvB. Do you really want to be like them? Read this forum post from NOHO: in order to carry out the orders of their masters, they had to sing for NOHO and thrown their whole fleet to them as ransom. That's what it means to be a Goon pet: to be a low(ly) snake. Update: the Goons just commanded them back to the fight after their lost POCOs became news! RvB yet again is at war with Lemmings, Marmites and now Noir!

Summary: Goons and their RvB pets lost 3B worth of ships and about 400 man-hours for about 2B kills (0.5N of it unsavable Rokh+Hulk) and zero loot, despite their enemy was a single player plus unrelated third parties.


Anonymous said...

You say you only lost a billion, but you lost 11 pocos, a tower, assorted POS mods, a hulk and a rohk... by my match that's over 2B, unless my math is wrong?

Druur Monakh said...

"I turned into a wormhole zombie myself"

You mean, you didn't want that WH anyway?

"Goons and their RvB pets lost 2.5B worth of ships and about 400 man-hours for about 1B kills"

In other words: you won the ISK battle, but you are still losing the war - you no longer have a WH presence.

And as for singing as payment: that's an old Eve tradition, something socialites like to do to each other in good spirit. And occasionally, if the singer is actually good, he even may end up being showered in ISK.

Anonymous said...

Awesome Post. Good Job being a 1 man army, taking out ships and having the courage to freight stuff out while under siege. Most people would just log off with just seeing a 10 man fleet assaulting their POS. I saw that happen a lot... so risk adverse they wouldn't even try to defend their falling tower. Anyways, Props to you and keep putting it to the Goons. Seeing their Mail, it's obvious they really are butt hurt by you.

Anonymous said...

Another great blog post, you sure do generate some content.

You can self-destruct ships in POS to get insurance and deny kill mails.

Esteban said...

To be honest, Gevlon, part of me wonders whether the Goons aren't actively supporting your activities.

It gives the illusion of opposition and drama while they complete the null donut.

Gevlon said...

@Anonymous: fixed. I wrote that part after I left the WH, didn't update everything after the POCO losses.

@Druur: I wanted it. I just used it as a zombie for a business post.

@Another anon: I couldn't board the Hulk and Rokh. They were gained for my girlfriend who left the WH months ago, I had no pilot to fly them.

Louis Robichaud said...

I think that the readers would perhaps appreciate seeing the day's events from the eyes of an RvB member AND No-Ho:

Anonymous said...

The event from an RvB member's perspective...

- Formed up, lots of banter and silly jokes on coms as usual.
- Spoke to NOHO and said we would sing them songs for the wormhole access.
- We sung them songs (someone should have the link) it was actually really funny...and we are TERRIBLE at singing.
- We shot the POS then asked NOHO for a battle afterwards (we need to blow up of course).
- We had an arranged battle with NOHO, which they obviously won since they had a t3 fleet with t2 logi. We all had a blast, I think one of the RvB members asked NOHO to blap the free rokh so he could get the insurance payout.

Will this even be posted or are comments censored?

nightgerbil said...


Singing for ransom? Nobody honours ransoms in eve. Its done for tears/extra profit from the gullible. Noho wouldnt have defended his wormhole for a song. They would have used the recording to mock him on the internet.

Arrendis said...

I have to be completely honest, I'm not at all sure why the N110 wasn't bubbled the first night. I know I was sitting on one of the K162s also open in the system at the time when you started going out - I only went to check the N110 when I found out nobody was on the inside, and saw your last epithal slipping out.

A purifier jumped in just as you jumped out to take some shots at one of the tackle that tried to get you, but I guess he didn't want to play w/my loki. Not exactly a surprise.

But eh. I suspect most of them hadn't dealt with wormholes before, including the mammoth pilot. Yes, the holes should all have been bubbled, as should the pos. Mayhaps the answer is :effort:, but eh. Not my concern.

I did consider saying 'hi' in local while you were displaying something of a lack of understanding regarding just what they were doing, though. You kept asking 'hey, are you guys AFK? Why aren't my tower's shields going down?' while they incapped guns and disruptor batteries...

(Hint: They were incapping guns and disruptor batteries, not shooting the tower. That's why the shields weren't dropping.)

But you know, just toss Powers a line if you get another WH. I'm sure he'd love to go again and make all the adjustments. That's the best thing about not doing things right in EVE: you get to learn how to do better.

Dado R. said...

I'd have to give to you gev, that is a fight won, Noho, GS and RVB coming to kick you out, if that isn't relevant I don't know what is.

Anyways good job on the kills and the minimal losses.

Gevlon said...

@Arrendis: I already wrote that I won't leave Empire/NPC null until Goons are broken, to prevent such opportunities. I had the wormhole from before and thought it's a good test for zombiehood.

@Dado R: just Goons and RvB were mad. NOHO just came for ganks and songs.

Oska Rus said...

Personal vendetta on such scale clearly states that you properly ruin their collective day.

May the blessing of The Troll be upon you. :D

ringusworm said...

If RvB according to you are Goon pets.
Then are Lemmings and Marmite your pets.
You pay the war decs to do your bidding ?

Gevlon said...

They are paid mercenaries. Just check the Marmite page, they openly advertise it:

There would be nothing wrong with RvB if they'd do what they do openly and stop this "we just want fun fights" nonsense because it's a very lame cover.

Omar Lazreg said...

@ Nightgerbil

Except Noho has several years of collecting and honoring ransoms and never dishonoring a single one.

This is pretty standard in wormholes amongst several entities.

Your just judging everyone else by your standards =)

Anonymous said...

Good job, Gevlon! You continue to get reactions from Goons/RvB, and continue to show players alternative ways to play.

Thanks for your blog, and keep up the good work!

Anonymous said...


dishonouring ransoms in wh space has serious ramifications, just ask firebirds they dishonoured a ransom and got kicked out of wh space not once but twice..

Infact one of the fastest ways to get yourself invaded is to dishonour your word in wh space.

E Dyn said...

That was an amazingly good read and had me smiling. To have such an impact on an alliance like that. *tips hat*
Love it. Keep up the good work!

Arrendis said...


I know that until the Goons are defeated, I can't live in Null or WH space, can't have a "space home". This is the price that everyone must pay who don't want to live as a Goon pet.

Did you mean to call every single WH group a 'Goon pet' there? Because you did. If 'everyone' 'must pay' the price of not living in Null or WH space if they 'don't want to live as a Goon pet', then you've just asserted that NOHO, and even N3/PL, are all Goon pets.

Which we all know is patently absurd, so I can't imagine that was your intent. Revision's probably in order there.

Also, we've covered the 'slain is not the active past tense of slay' (it's 'slew') before.

Gevlon said...

@Arrendis: no, Goons obviously can't police WH space, so unless a WH entity is hostile to them, they let them be.

N3 had devastating losses in the staging system hellcamp, so they are a bad example.

PL is the strongest, so they are safe until Goons handled the rest. But after that, they'll be evicted too (if Goons get that far).

So to be clear: I didn't say that anyone living outside of Empire/NPC are Goon pets. I say that they are either too small for Goons to care, or they are making a grave mistake by living in Sov null and will pay for that like Nulli did.

Just a random guy said...

Well, I was like that you are wrong with the RvB, when you called them "Goon-pets" in the past.
But this post made a turnaround in my head.
Seeing that RvB going after you into a wormhole just REALLY proves that they are Goon-pets lol.
Because defending Poco-s because of business is one thing, but acting like bloodhounds of Goons is another.
Kind of a dissapointment here.

Provi Miner said...

disagree gob, I think you way underestemate the love of provi. even if the goons took provi (the most densely packed null space in the game) the fight would continue from low and high sec endlessly. The reason reds come to provi is because its easy. Therefore anyone who takes provi will have to deal with the same. Provi is a nightmare to hold if someone doesn't want you to have it. And by the same token Provi is a nightmare to take (it makes the foutain grind look like a sunday stroll).

Anonymous said...

What is the lost revenue from the PI operation? That should be included in the cost...

Louis Robichaud said...

Random guy: we went in because of Gevlon 's "anti-diplomacy". Basically he antagonized RvB enough that we were happy to go kick him in the shins a bit.

Had Gevlon been more business like in his approach, we couldn't have been bothered.

Gevlon said...

@Provi miner: but then your defense comes from the fact that you WOULD fight from NPC space

@Anonymous: see tomorrow's post. The income didn't match trading income and now I got that time back. If I can utilize that time for higher ISK/hour than the POCO, there is no lost revenue. Otherwise I can just start new pilots unrelated to me and get a new wormhole

@LR: sure, RvB attacked the 50-man Lemmings because I had bad diplomacy. The truth is that if I fight Goons, RvB will fight me and no diplomacy would help that.

Bobbins said...

Wasn't RvB's little trip organised by the goons though?
So no matter how much he 'antagonized RvB enough' the deciding factor was the goons getting you to gank the pos.

Arrendis said...

Because defending Poco-s because of business is one thing, but acting like bloodhounds of Goons is another.

Is it? Has Gevlon not given them reason to go after him, with his repeated insults? Are they not allowed to take it personally when he makes it personal? Are they then required to not be annoyed at him, lest they be considered 'Goon pets'?

If I call you an asshole, constantly, almost daily, for months, when you punch me for it, I don't get to point and say 'SEE?!?!? HE'S AN ASSHOLE!'

Gevlon took an opponent, someone who had no personal reason to initiate action against him, and he made them into an enemy.

He did that. Not Goons. Not RvB. Gevlon's insistence upon insulting RvB and mocking them did that. Not anything else. To try shifting the blame on that front is disingenuous, at the very least.

Gevlon said...

@Arrendis: the war with RvB was unavoidable ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN ADMISSION. They claim they have a treaty with Goons that they honor. Since my goal is to fight Goons, it automatically make them my enemy. So I lose nothing if I insult them and call them pets, as being totally respectful would earn me nothing: they'd be at war anyway.

Just a random guy said...

@LR: Yeah, Goblin smacktalked about RvB quite much, so your actions is kinda understandable...but seeing that only 2 goon guys showed up for the eviction while RvB had 30-40 for the structure bashing is somewhat drives it to the "pet way". Or aren't these numbers accurate?

Louis Robichaud said...

@ Bobbins: RvB gained the wormhole location and passed it on to the CFC, who reinforced the structures. We went in to finish the job. So RvB definitely started this.

@ Gevlon: you still would have your wormhole...

Oh, and No-Ho is reimbursing our losses apparently. See what a bit of diplomacy can give you?

Arrendis said...

the war with RvB was unavoidable ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN ADMISSION. They claim they have a treaty with Goons that they honor. Since my goal is to fight Goons, it automatically make them my enemy.

No. It makes them your opponent. They are someone you are fighting. If that's all that's going on - if it's just them honoring their treaty obligations, then they might as well be the guy on the other side of a fencing match or a soccer game.

Your insults have made them your enemy, a foe who is no longer simply concerned with objectives, but with causing you harm whenever possible.

There is a difference. PL was the CFC's opponent in the Halloween War. N3 is our enemy.

Anonymous said...

O.M.G. This was comedy GOLD!

If these Goons bothered to, y'know, read your blog, they would have realized attacking your WH stuff was a waste of time. SMH.

JimL said...

@Gevlon:". Since my goal is to fight Goons, it automatically make them my enemy. So I lose nothing if I insult them and call them pets, as being totally respectful would earn me nothing: they'd be at war anyway."

This is simply not true.

The point you have been ignoring (because it blows your whole "pets" theory up) is that for the individual RvB member, participating in any of the Goon stuff (POCO defense or attacking your wormhole home) is completely voluntary (how they pets if they are doing it voluntarily?). No member has to answer a CTA. If an RvB member disliked the Goons they could just completely ignore all calls to defend Goon POCOs and just participate in the Red vs. Blue battles.

By insulting and antagonizing them, you probably have made it more probable that the individual members will respond to a CTA against you.

Maybe if you had better diplomacy skills (and a better understanding of howthings work) and you didn't antagonize RvB, then perhaps their participation rates might have slowly dropped. After all, like you have pointed out numerous times fleeting up to rep POCOs is pretty boring.

Instead, you antagonized them and gave them a reason to fleet up and fight the person who is insulting them.

JimL said...

@Gevlon:"see tomorrow's post. The income didn't match trading income and now I got that time back. If I can utilize that time for higher ISK/hour than the POCO, there is no lost revenue. Otherwise I can just start new pilots unrelated to me and get a new wormhole"

That sounds at lot like "I didn't want the wormhole anyway".

If it is better because now you can now utilize that time better by trading, why were you continuing to spend time in the wormhole? Why not just discontinue operations on your own and spend more time trading?

Gevlon said...

@Arrendis: there is something you are missing here. Namely the fact that RvB was cooperating with Goons long before I came. So they are factually pets. Therefore they are my enemy, not just opponent (if Goons would hire BL to take back the POCOs, they would be opponents).

The situation is simple: as long as RvB exists (or at least while its current leadership is in charge), they will protect Goons. The only way for me to achieve my goals of locking Goons out of highsec is destroying RvB first. Don't you think that would make them hate me anyway, even if I didn't say a word?

@JimL: this is where "propaganda" came in. The RvB killboard name of their campaign was "Gevlon is a twat". If I don't say a word about them, their propagandists would still saw enough hate among the line members to show up. Now I also have propaganda for my side to show up: "look, we are the 300 against the legions of Goons and pets"

And "didn't want that WH anyway" isn't equal to "my time is best spent there". First, I was writing today's post about that WH, the eviction is the natural end of the project without it the post wouldn't be complete. Secondly, I missed capital months ago when my ISK was locked down in capital blueprints and pilots in training. The WH made me OK money without capital. Now I have the needed capital.

@LR: NOHO is independent, capable of making decisions. I could make them defend my WH for another reinforcement cycle if I sing. I just didn't want to support their disgusting habit.

RvB on the other hand is incapable of making decisions. Even if I could convince you with inhuman efforts, the only thing I could achieve is that you quit RvB. There was no way to make RvB any different as it's firmly controlled by Goon alts.

Druur Monakh said...

@Nightgerbil It still happens. Not as often as it should, but it does, even outside WH space. Hence my use of the word 'occasionally'.

And if I read the forum post right, NoHo did hold to their side of the agreement with RvB?

a DAMN PATRIOT said...

Actually you will find that wormholers and especially noho are much more likely to honor a ransom than day, hisec awoxers, most especially when the ransom is a song. Girls just want to have fun