The stunning reports from the very first month are showing 66% ISK ratio against RvB by Lemmings and no resistance from GSF. Marmites did more-than-a-titan damage. Our numbers passed 300. Stats are growing rapidly dotlan and eve-census stats: 
After these I don't think it's running ahead to name our terms that the Goons must accept for peace. The terms are also necessary to properly define who we are and what we are fighting for.
I don't doubt that many line members joined for shooting war targets and couldn't care less if it's CFC or N3 or highsec industrial corps. But both Lemmings and the Marmite permawars exist only because of being funded. Without this funding the Lemmings would either cease to exist or become Marmite Academy, and along with Marmite would attack targets randomly, causing CFC no more damage than to their enemies. It is true that Marmite used to wardec CFC members, but before the funding not more than the enemies of CFC, therefore being irrelevant in the outcomes of wars. By ending the funding - which can only be achieved by accepting these terms - CFC can return to this random-war state.
We are fighting for the acceptance of ISK making, which is often referred by the derigatory term "carebearing". Most nullsec alliances wrongfully, but honestly believe in being "PvP-er". These alliances suffer the consequences of their ignorance in the form of being defeated again and again by CFC. CFC on the other hand is dishonestly claiming the same. While they spew the same "carebear hate" as everyone else, actually overdoing it in form of organized pogroms against "carebears", they are secretly the biggest ISK-farmers of New Eden. The form of keeping their true nature secret is separating the CFC into Goonwaffe and pets. Pets are constantly evaluated and disciplined to force them to remain PvP-er, upkeeping the "PvP-er" image, while pure blood Goons are immune to these rules, and encouraged to make ISK. While this scheme is weaker than letting the whole CFC make ISK, it's strategically better, as open ISK making would be copied by hostiles, taking away the advantage of CFC.
As long as CFC successfully keep their ISK-making nature secret, ISK making will not get proper recognition, so we must force CFC to either stop making ISK (therefore become no longer stronger than its enemies), or accept being "carebear" openly, emancipating the ISK-makers. Therefore we demand the following:
As you can see we - just like the Goons themselves - are not an EVE-born group. Being a "decent person" is a real world thing. We aren't after ISK, Sov or killboard stats, they are just means to an end: to enforce our community ideas to other communities. Goons aren't defined by what they have in the game, they are defined by their propaganda and ideas. The individual Goons ignores in-game rewards (ISK or personal killboard) to further the goal of the hive. Without the "Goon ethos", they aren't different from any random EVE-born corp that wants to rat and shoot stuff. We aren't after their stations, moons or renters (though as a means to an end, sooner or later we'll get there), but after the "Goon idea". By forcing Goons to the above terms, they stop being Goons.
Goons are horrible people who want to hurt others not as a byproduct of competition or to force them to learn, but for tears. So our end-goal is "there will be no Goons!", cleansing EVE from these horribles by either reforming them, or forcing them to quit.
Clarification: in every game, when you win, someone loses and that someone can be upset. You shouldn't refrain yourself from playing as good as you can, just because your opponent might cry. There is nothing wrong with getting game points on the killboard by ganking miners or getting ISK by ganking freighters or by scamming. Goons aren't bad for Burn Jita, Hulkageddon or the recruitment scams. They are bad for claiming that their winning a game round isn't related to simply being better in the game, but "we did because we can, and you can't do anything about it since you are just a pubbie". Actually they did the whole ganking just to be able to tell this. The truth is that anyone can become a winner if he stops being lazy and starts learning and we'll prove that by "random pubbies" defeating the "community-born" Goons and forcing them to abandon their disgusting ideas.
After these I don't think it's running ahead to name our terms that the Goons must accept for peace. The terms are also necessary to properly define who we are and what we are fighting for.
I don't doubt that many line members joined for shooting war targets and couldn't care less if it's CFC or N3 or highsec industrial corps. But both Lemmings and the Marmite permawars exist only because of being funded. Without this funding the Lemmings would either cease to exist or become Marmite Academy, and along with Marmite would attack targets randomly, causing CFC no more damage than to their enemies. It is true that Marmite used to wardec CFC members, but before the funding not more than the enemies of CFC, therefore being irrelevant in the outcomes of wars. By ending the funding - which can only be achieved by accepting these terms - CFC can return to this random-war state.
We are fighting for the acceptance of ISK making, which is often referred by the derigatory term "carebearing". Most nullsec alliances wrongfully, but honestly believe in being "PvP-er". These alliances suffer the consequences of their ignorance in the form of being defeated again and again by CFC. CFC on the other hand is dishonestly claiming the same. While they spew the same "carebear hate" as everyone else, actually overdoing it in form of organized pogroms against "carebears", they are secretly the biggest ISK-farmers of New Eden. The form of keeping their true nature secret is separating the CFC into Goonwaffe and pets. Pets are constantly evaluated and disciplined to force them to remain PvP-er, upkeeping the "PvP-er" image, while pure blood Goons are immune to these rules, and encouraged to make ISK. While this scheme is weaker than letting the whole CFC make ISK, it's strategically better, as open ISK making would be copied by hostiles, taking away the advantage of CFC.
As long as CFC successfully keep their ISK-making nature secret, ISK making will not get proper recognition, so we must force CFC to either stop making ISK (therefore become no longer stronger than its enemies), or accept being "carebear" openly, emancipating the ISK-makers. Therefore we demand the following:
- Definition: CFC alliance is one that has sov in the CFC space defined in the BoTLORD treaty. (This doesn't include RvB, I have very special plans for them, coming tomorrow).
- CFC alliances must be evaluated corp-wise, according to publicly announced performance rules. These rules apply to every corp equally. The standards must be openly published and it must be pointed out where did a corp fail to deserve purging.
- The only exception from (2) are few-men alt-corps (like executor corp). The number of pilots in these alt corps can't exceed 5% of the total alliance size.
- Goonwaffe must be evaluated equally to every other corp. If fails to comply to the standards, non-performing members must be purged until compliance is restored.
- The "we can do whatever we want" propaganda must end. Goons in highsec just slay bad players who carry too much in a too weak ship. Goons are unable to kill prepared targets. A tool must be generated that checks the GSF killboard looking for kills in highsec. These pilots must receive a mail that leads them to a newbie-informing page about proper ship fitting, value/EHP ratios and other info that helps them learn to play and stop being gank food. These pages must not contain lies, scams and "get more friends" bullshit, just true game info.
- The terms "pubbie", "shitlord", "publord" must be banned. It refers to other players are inferior to Goons just because. There is no problem insulting bad players like poor ones, ones with horrible killboard or ones who can't make it to Sov, but claiming superiority by birthright is racism. There must be a decree banning these terms and offending members fined. Also, the ticker of the CFC renter alliance (PBLRD) must be changed.
As you can see we - just like the Goons themselves - are not an EVE-born group. Being a "decent person" is a real world thing. We aren't after ISK, Sov or killboard stats, they are just means to an end: to enforce our community ideas to other communities. Goons aren't defined by what they have in the game, they are defined by their propaganda and ideas. The individual Goons ignores in-game rewards (ISK or personal killboard) to further the goal of the hive. Without the "Goon ethos", they aren't different from any random EVE-born corp that wants to rat and shoot stuff. We aren't after their stations, moons or renters (though as a means to an end, sooner or later we'll get there), but after the "Goon idea". By forcing Goons to the above terms, they stop being Goons.
Goons are horrible people who want to hurt others not as a byproduct of competition or to force them to learn, but for tears. So our end-goal is "there will be no Goons!", cleansing EVE from these horribles by either reforming them, or forcing them to quit.
Clarification: in every game, when you win, someone loses and that someone can be upset. You shouldn't refrain yourself from playing as good as you can, just because your opponent might cry. There is nothing wrong with getting game points on the killboard by ganking miners or getting ISK by ganking freighters or by scamming. Goons aren't bad for Burn Jita, Hulkageddon or the recruitment scams. They are bad for claiming that their winning a game round isn't related to simply being better in the game, but "we did because we can, and you can't do anything about it since you are just a pubbie". Actually they did the whole ganking just to be able to tell this. The truth is that anyone can become a winner if he stops being lazy and starts learning and we'll prove that by "random pubbies" defeating the "community-born" Goons and forcing them to abandon their disgusting ideas.
38 comments:
Ok, admit it, this blog is some sort of avant garde comedy that I just don't understand, right?
What leverage do you have over Goons to make them even take a look at this?
Good luck to you on the project. I hope it generates "good fights" and encourages new players to pick up EVE.
However, I disagree with you that the defining characteristic of any game should be performance driven.
Nope
Lol. Seriously? The most powerful entities in the game have failed to defeat the goons in the last decade. And you think 300 randoms in highsec will do the job?
Your terms are ridiculous. On the face of them they cannot be accepted. Which means you intend to foreverwar. which is fine. But just say that.
Also you have not one a single battle....not one ... where your enemy has formed up to fight you. You've opportunistically dropped in and whored kills... which is fine, but just say that instead of spewing rhetoric about your eliteness.
Also still with the kill death ratio.. how much do you need to be shaken and slapped until you realize *it means nothing and literally nobody worth a thing in the game gives 2 shits about it - and by leaning on it you attracting the very risk averse morons that will prevent you from achieving your victory*.
@Professor Clio: let's see if you'll be laughing tomorrow.
@Anonymous: who said I expect Goons to take a look at it. You know other people play the game too.
@Other anonymous: You underestimate these "risk averse morons".
but claiming superiority by birthright is racism.
How? Please explain HOW this is racism? Goons are not a "race".
Or is this racism term just some RP thing?
@Gevlon: I underestimate them? Really? Your fleets dock up as soon as there is even a chance they'll be defeated. Because they would be defeated.
Defeating Darwin's Lemmings would be as simple a task as camping you into stations. You wont undock because of your precious killboard. Your member base would get bored and leave.
I don't know what you are trying to achieve here with this statement.
I'll agree with you on one point - yes, goon culture can be unpleasant and grief-driven. But your demands are ridiculous. You're essentially asking that goons stop being goons. How could that possibly ever happen? Even if say, you managed somehow to drive them out of high sec and take their POCOs... the CFC is so large and powerful that this would be only a minor setback. Even had you had achieved that, you wouldn't be able to extract these concessions from them.
So why make the demand? Are you trying to make them angry? All you are doing is *motivating them to fight you*. Why are you trying to boost the morale of your enemy?
And before you make that special announcement about RvB tomorrow, ask yourself - is this going to just make them fight you harder? If so, why make the announcement?
LR
You can't change your race. You born with it and that's it. Saying "black are worse than whites" is saying "you are bad and can't get better".
Being a Something Awful member is out-of-game. You can't get better in the game to grow into an SA member. So in the game you born as a Goon or as a Pubbie, and there is nothing you can do about it.
@ Gevlon
Yes, I would have thought you would expect goons to take a look at this given the terms and conditions of surrender are directed at them.
What good are surrender terms if your opponent doesn't even know about it?
Perhaps the plan is to be some sort of gnawing, unknown force that whittles away goon isk, membership, and/or culture over the years?
So you are seriously claiming goons are rl bad people, because they do bad things in eve? Please confirm or deny if we are interpreting you right.
You can't change your race. You born with it and that's it. Saying "black are worse than whites" is saying "you are bad and can't get better".
Being a Something Awful member is out-of-game. You can't get better in the game to grow into an SA member. So in the game you born as a Goon or as a Pubbie, and there is nothing you can do about it.
But you CAN change your pubbie status - join the SA forums as a paid up member and you can join goons (if that is what you want to do).
Not even a little bit like racism. In fact it is actually OFFENSIVE to those who have been subjected to racism for you to conflate the two.
(Once again, this is a two-part response because of character limit...)
BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAH. *Gasp*wheeze*
Oh... oh, Gevlon. You've outdone yourself this time.
So, the day after goons toss together a casual group to rep up their POCOs and you guys run off, you post that there's been 'no resistance from GSF'. That's hilarious. It is. It's also not half as funny as the rest of what you've said.
"CFC on the other hand is dishonestly claiming the same. While they spew the same "carebear hate" as everyone else, actually overdoing it in form of organized pogroms against "carebears", they are secretly the biggest ISK-farmers of New Eden. The form of keeping their true nature secret is separating the CFC into Goonwaffe and pets."
That... that's freakin' hilarious, dude. Pets are constantly evaluated and disciplined... hahahahah.. we get paplinks so we can keep an eye on ourselves, so we can push ourselves to do better. Yes, we're expected to pull our weight in a war. No, we're not cowering in fear that we're going to get purged. As for 'secretly the biggest ISK-farmers of New Eden'... what the hell is so secret about that? The whole CFC does it.
(CONT...)
(Part TWO!)
Lemme point that out again a little clearer - when you say: Pets are constantly evaluated and disciplined to force them to remain PvP-er, upkeeping the "PvP-er" image, while pure blood Goons are immune to these rules, and encouraged to make ISK. While this scheme is weaker than letting the whole CFC make ISK, it's strategically better, as open ISK making would be copied by hostiles, taking away the advantage of CFC.
You are demonstrating an hilarious amount of ignorance about just how well-oiled the money-machines in all the CFC alliances are 'allowed' to be. Yes, we get told (by our alliance leaders, not by CONDI) that we're expected to be in fleets, and not ignoring strategic operations in order to make money. We're never told 'hey, dude with 10 accounts. None of them can be ratting in AFKtars or ice mining while your one combat pilot is drone-assisting.'
You are factually and rhetorically wrong. Not only do we make isk whilst simultaneously battering down our foes' skulls, we laugh about it. We openly talk about this stuff in fleets. If this is supposed to be some massive secret, then CNN must be some great secret, too, because I'm pretty sure all 30,000 of us know it, and so do most of our enemies.
As for the 'pogroms' and 'hate'? Here's what you're not getting:
We - and I'm speaking as a generic member of the CFC here, but believe me, I've had long chats with a lot of people in CONDI about things like this while doing things like rescuing ratting carriers... (and jesus christ, Gevlon, we take STRATOP FLEETS RATTING TO PASS THE TIME.)
We don't hate high-sec carebears because they're carebears. We don't go on organized pogroms against carebears because they're carebears.
We do it because you are not us.
We are, to use the Goon parlance, a bunch of pubbie-infested jew bastards who fairly regularly enjoy swinging our dicks hard and wide enough to slap right square in the face more or less anyone we have a beef with.
But it's not because you're carebears. We're carebears. We mock each other for being 'jew bastards'. It's because you aren't us, and because you - you, specifically - insist on writing up such terrible bullshit screeds addressing things about which you blatantly have absolutely no clue.
You want ISK making to get proper recognition?
From the CFC to PL and to all points in between, ISK IS WHAT DRIVES THE GAME. Blowing stuff up requires isk. Helicopter dicking your enemies requires isk. Being able to shower some putz on his 3rd day of the game with over 3 billion isk... takes isk.
As for the chances anyone in the CFC will ever even consider humoring you and your terms? Allow me to quote myself:
BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAH.
@Anonymous: not all. Those who are just playing EVE under the colors of GSF are not different from other players. But those who are "being Goon", those who gave GSF its infamy are indeed bad people IRL. Like their leader who called into bully someone into IRL suicide.
@Anonymous: but it's not an in-game thing. My point is that Goons claim that SA membership affects EVE success. This is the open denial of meritocracy.
@Arrendis: "We do it because you are not us." The quintessence of racism. A decent person feel no need to randomly harm strangers.
Gevlon, you were killing defenseless miners for months and boasting it, just to inflate your kb. By your logic, you are a bad person irl. Do you see how absurd it sounds?
Being competitive in a game is not bad. I killed them because they were bad in the game and then I sent them a mail to inform them how can they improve.
Read the last paragraph again!
As other commenters have noted, the racism comparison is unwarranted. Unless you're a WoW character, you can't change your race by paying 10$.
Religious prejudice would be closer to the mark. "Pubbies" (another way of saying 'infidels' or 'heathens') are scorned and scourged for not embracing the True Goon Faith, but conversion is always an option.
But Gevlon, you really are a bad person. Read over your own pieces on your M&S to rational steps. Do you honestly think that's not the hurf of someone that discriminates heavily against people? At the end of the day, the Goons are playing a game. They don't actually believe that everyone in the world is a "pubbie shitlord". You however do believe you are better than most people.
Re the above though, you seriously don't seem to understand even the basic concepts of the CFC or EVE itself for that matter. I'm not exactly worried that you'll ever get anywhere with your endeavour though, so carry on.
@Anonymous: not all. Those who are just playing EVE under the colors of GSF are not different from other players. But those who are "being Goon", those who gave GSF its infamy are indeed bad people IRL. Like their leader who called into bully someone into IRL suicide.
Their "leader" is one of many people. You can't apply guilt by association.
Additionally it was well documented that what he did whilst distasteful was not bullying - just because it was wrongly reported as so.. The author who initially reported that retracted his statements unconditionally.
Conversion being an option does not make religious wars ok. Just take a look at RL religious wars.
@Gevlon
I understand the core of your message is "if we are not meeting these goals, the funding will stop".
It is curious how all of your goals are contigent on CFC changing their behaviour, though.
So it follows that all it would take CFC to "win" is to just be as they have always been. And that's what will happen, unless you find a way to mount some serious pressure.
What is happening right now is that you are accumulating people interested in attacking CFC assets in highsec. However, i doubt you'll be able to force any sort of change out of CFC with any sort of highsec activity. Maybe if you shot down every single ship in next Burn Jita or something, but that doesn't even sound feasible.
If i were in your place, i'd try to figure out how many (if any) Lemmings are interested in owning lower security space, and whether it is possible to grant Lemmings access to actual Goon space for ganks and fun fights.
Gevlon:
"@Arrendis: "We do it because you are not us." The quintessence of racism. A decent person feel no need to randomly harm strangers."
No. This has nothing to do with you being a goblin, or any ethnic concerns, in-game or out. This is not racism. This is tribalism, or nationalism, or cliquishness, but it is not racism, and to say it is diminishes the offense of actual racism in the world today. A decent person feels no need to immediately compare being picked on in a video game to the systematic oppression of minorities.
@Anonymous: but it's not an in-game thing. My point is that Goons claim that SA membership affects EVE success. This is the open denial of meritocracy.
No it's not. You are sounding like you are butthurt because you can't join GSF without joining SA. That somehow by your merits you DESERVE to be part of their group. But that isn't how their group works. Their group has membership requirements. Simple as that. Within the CFC they operate very much under the terms of a meritocracy. If you work hard you get responsibility, wealth, even infamy if you want it. That their membership requirement isn't based on meritocracy doesn't openly deny meritocracy... it simply states that they want to fly with people who share common interests.
@Arrendis: "We do it because you are not us." The quintessence of racism. A decent person feel no need to randomly harm strangers.
No. Racism is defined as fear or hatred of a person of a different race. Not a person of a different internet forum. You can't just co-opt the term racism.
Another day, another publord obsessed with Goons proclaims that there are/will be no goons. I wonder what life is like for alliances without the entertainment of stalkers.
I suspect we'll make it through an attack by a handful of k/d-obsessive pubstars (I gather "pubstars" is allowed under the putative Gevlon Accords) and Randian lolberts.
Gevlon dude, now you are completely going overboard. You are becoming the very thing you wish to eradicate, and you are doing it on completely false assumptions.
Where you are doing it knowingly to build propaganda for the lemmings (and hence becoming the highsec version of mittani), or are naive enough to believe your own words, remains to be seen.
The Goon ethos is, every one counts, the lowest of newbies is important to the collective. Fun is more important than important spaceship business.
I personally like to behave as a builder in EvE and have never appreciated the goons way of having fun at the expense of other. But the things Goons have build, the degree of organization they brought to EvE and the respect they have for newbies and the despise for l337 pvp is undeniable.
TL;DR;
Your endeavor is a good thing. You assumptions are a bad thing.
@all the haters.
I guarantee that goons are very aware of Gevlon's terms of surrender.
You people just don't get it. Gevlon is the biggest and direct threat to Goons short of CCP nerfing nullsec ratting income.
Lrn2read!
Gevlon, this is a strangely bad idea coming from someone who seems to have an uncommon understanding of systems of people.
The people you're embarrassing with your hilariously successful and uneven war are part of a group that exists to make them feel superior. You're asking them to stop acting like they feel that way. You can't change their culture with demands backed by forced. Demands backed by force can only be used to force leaders to do something. And anything the leaders do will have to be accepted by the members, or else they'll drift off to other games where they can remain a goon.
Trying to apply the surface of a culture you find less annoying to a group whose annoying culture is what holds them together is not possible. If you get the buy-in of the leaders somehow, they'd quickly find themselves leaders of nothing. The only way to make culture changes is to get the buy-in from the majority of the members, but that makes this a PR fight, not a space fight.
Gevlon has hit the Goon nail on the head and the genie is out of the bottle, though the importance of ISK in any large scale Eve venture wasn't exactly a secret. But it's about time that ISK generation be recognized clearly for its importance.
Well done, Gevlong.
you are doing totally the opposite with your posts, boosting goons morale and entertaining them while hellcamping.
good job!
In *gasp* Gevlon's defence, while he's completely wrong about the use of the word racism (it is indeed tribalism or nationalism or whatever), he's not the first who has used it. I've seen goons accuse "grr-goons" people of being racists because they didn't like all goons.
... but those goons may have just been trolling. I am sure Gevlon is trolling too... Right Gevlon? You are kidding right? :/
Gevlon, you are antagonizing RvB enough to keep them at war with Marmite. Let me point out that RvB is the ONLY group that Marmite has a less than 90% killboard efficiency with. I think you probably have lots of RvB members thanking you. I think your mistake is that you don't understand RvB (not like you really understand goons, but it looks like you are trying to). RvB members don't care about losing pods, or even killboard stats (RvB has a 50% efficiency, roughly, because they kill themselves). Marmite however does care about their killboard. They are the ones who like to brag that they have 90% efficiency over all major alliances. Their RvB KB makes their KB look shitty.
@Basically everyone
I agree with Gelvon’s inaccurate use of the word racism. This is obviously bigoted prejudice he is describing, but not specifically racism. The correlation to religious prejudice makes more sense and this is a difference in ideology. It’s a moot point however, as this is a semantic argument and ultimately has nothing to do with his argument. Also saying that his inaccurate use of the word racism is offensive to people who experience RL racism is idiotic. The work “racism” is not sacrosanct nor is it taboo. You’re the only one making that relation.
On another note, there are a couple of RL examples I can think of that don’t support the way Gelvon seems to be pursuing his ultimate goal. In two cases in recent history where there has been a major change in cultural understanding and the treatment of one group towards the other. These are the Indian Independence Movement lead by the efforts of Gandhi and the American Civil right Movement lead by MLK. Ultimately the change was brought on by non-violent civil disobedience. This was successful because it personally affected all the members of the society who were the oppressors. It felt bad to watch other human being suffering (i.e. being sprayed with a firehouse) while peacefully protesting. Gelvon on the other hand preaches “Might makes Right” as he wishes to one day out blob the Goons to achieve his goals and is currently engaged in guerilla warfare style tactics.
Obviously you can’t fully equivocate RL events with events of an MMO. You could also argument other times in history were other tactics have been effective like the Vietnam War. I’m not trying to say anything conclusively. My point is that if you wish to change the establishment from a vicious system to a virtuous one you have to do so with the virtuous actions you preach. Otherwise you replace one vicious system with another. The thing is EVE is a game of blowing up each other’s spaceships. So how does one virtuous blow up another’s spaceship?
I expect that one of the major issues facing the Mittani and Goon leadership is the "Big Blue Doughnut" question. What do they do next to prevent from imploding?
Perhaps their next diverting crusade will be against you...
you can't beat goons on their turf.
Goons already surf the edges of several grey areas. to outgrief the griefer would mean the use of "not TOS compliant" methods and worse.
I don't really see a way to counter goons. give them null with absolutely no resistance. so they might implode and get bored and swarm to other games.
Also CCP is in some way dependant on griefers like Goons. it is a mixed bag. you can't purge what is build in and meant to be.
Gevlon I really like #5. That should be already build into the game with a option to turn "notification-help-mail" off.
@Guerdon Malpheron
"Also saying that his inaccurate use of the word racism is offensive to people who experience RL racism is idiotic."
Not sure I agree with this. A victim of severe racism would probably be quite upset with it being brought up in the context of something so petty. It would be like joking about with a mate screaming "I'm being raped!" in front of a rape victim. While it's not automatically wrong, we have a certain amount of social responsibility and should show a little more decorum.
"Gelvon on the other hand preaches “Might makes Right” as he wishes to one day out blob the Goons to achieve his goals and is currently engaged in guerilla warfare style tactic."
The one thing he actually is right about IMO is that force is needed to make any changes. It's a game at the end of the day and people are going to continue to do what they want to have fun. Passive resistance would have absolutely no effect, since it would have no impact on the target group. In theory if you could unite the whole of the rest of the game, there could be enough people to cease trading and such to cause an economic impact, but you'd be damaging everyone else more and at the cost of the reason that most of them play.
His problem comes that he and his leadership teams seem to have no idea how to work with the resources they have. There's no way they are going to grow to a suitable size and capability to blob the goons, and their methods of guerrilla warfare (and I use that term VERY loosely) show a complete lack of understanding the way their target works. If he'd selected a more skilled leader he could do a fair amount of damage, even with the low volume of members he currently has. Small groups can be pretty effective, just look at Black Legion.
@Anon
"I expect that one of the major issues facing the Mittani and Goon leadership is the "Big Blue Doughnut" question. What do they do next to prevent from imploding?"
I'd be pretty surprised if the CFC were destined for an implosion any time soon. The way the CFC is structured, the alliances are pretty tight knit. It would be suicide for any one alliance to try to break away with no backing, and there's not many people left to back them. With the collapse of bob and other entities, lessons have been learned in countering spies so we are unlikely to see anything on that scale again.
I'm not going to be panicking any time soon, but we shall see what occurs.
Love Gevlon or hate him, he's done something only a relatively few people in EvE have managed to do.
He's become a content creator. In High Sec no less!
He's managed to build a growing, motivated community dedicated to a set of ideals and goals. It's not self sustaining (yet) as he admits that it would fall apart without his financial involvement. In time other independently wealthy capsuleers will step in and help shoulder the burden. At that point, it doesn't matter what Gevlon does. His Goon war will be here to stay.
Whatever happens, for good or bad, I intend to get my popcorn, plop down in front of my screen and enjoy the show!
@StoneJager
"He's become a content creator. In High Sec no less!
He's managed to build a growing, motivated community dedicated to a set of ideals and goals."
Literally hundreds of groups have been created exactly like this. It's just an alliance, like many others, just the bar for recruitment is so low that anyone can get in. It would be difficult to start an alliance with a bar that low and not recruit people. You can spam the recruitment channels and get 50 people in an afternoon. He's no more a content creator than any other random highsec player. If anything, he's less so, since this whole corp is just a Marmite training corp to keep losses from affecting their efficiency, so if anyone's creating content, it's Marmite. The one goal Gevlon himself has set has still not been even remotely achieved.
"In time other independently wealthy capsuleers will step in and help shoulder the burden."
No, they really won't. You have to be pretty dumb to want to pay a group like Marmite to shift a bunch of kills to a new name. I'm still convinced the whole thing is a Marmite con, designed to get their wardecs paid for for a bit.
I just want echo something Lucas said, because it's actually something that's come up a couple of times in conversation in the logi channels as the war's wound down and the hellcamp grinds on.
"I'd be pretty surprised if the CFC were destined for an implosion any time soon. The way the CFC is structured, the alliances are pretty tight knit. It would be suicide for any one alliance to try to break away with no backing, and there's not many people left to back them."
This. This is why we laugh at you whenever you call us 'pets'. This is why we nudge each other in the ribs and point at you snickering whenever you start pontificating on how Big Bad Goon is keeping us down and taking all the profits for themselves.
Lemme lay it out for you, Gevlon.
Soon, this war will be over, and we will all go back to our peacetime endeavors. For some of us, this will involve doing exactly what we've been doing, only without running around fighting in space. For others, it will mean going on deployment w/their alliance, or with a SIG like Freedom Squad, or trying to get into MiniLuv to go ganking in highsec.
For many people, this will be the part of the game they're eager to get back to. And there's nothing wrong with that.
For a lot of us, though, this is the time to start the next countdown, and watch the fortunes in the stars - in a much less poetic sense than such a phrase might normally be meant. SIG deployments, alliance deployments, we may go on them, but it won't be the same. For me, in particular, it will feel like having my right hand missing. It has, every time we've slipped into what Mittens calls 'wretched peace'. I mean, it's not that bad (after all, I'm left-handed) but the fact of the matter is that in alliance fleets, in SIG operations... people will be missing. People will be tasked into filling specialized roles they're capable of filling, but not really eager to fill, rather than blowing someone else up.
And then the next war will start. And when it does, the entire CFC will come together again, and when the fleets form, and people pile into the logistics channel, I will once again have my people around me - the people I've flown with, the people I've helped organize and lead at times, the people I spent 22hrs with in B-R. I will have my A-list logi crew. I will once again have the comfort and security of knowing 'ok, the vast majority of the people in there know their job... and more importantly, they choose it. They choose to be there, choose to be flying logi. Flying logi isn't something they have to do, it's something they strive to excel at.
These pilots will be from FCON, FA, TNT, CONDI, SMA, LAWN, CO2, INIT, WALT, GENTS... they will be from every alliance in the CFC, and they will be people I know and trust. The irony? I don't know what alliance most of them are in.
I don't. I know 'hey, that's X, he's solid, we trained him up in Fountain, he can take over if needed.' But other than a very few whose alliance I can identify because I've been in LAWN, FA, TNT, and remember their post on the alliance forums... I don't know. I don't care.
To me, they're not CO2. They're not EXE, or CONDI. They're the CFC. And every one of these long, hellish wars that we deploy to together, that we fight in together, that we grind through and slog through and suffer defeats and achieve victories in together... just gives each of us more common history, more shared culture and familiarity. They just bind us closer.
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