Before the post, a Lemmings update:
Lemmings reached 100 members! Join!
Yesterday I wrote how Marmite will massacre Goons due to the permawar I finance. I checked their killboard and found a kill. It's not a multi-billion one. But still, it made me smile. If you read my blog often, you know why (not just for the epic fit).
Also, fighting Goons had unforseen results:
Below you can see copy-pastes of EVEmails, which can be perfect example how to catch a scammer with 100% efficiency. The trick is: don't! While it was obvious that it's a scam attempt before I opened the first mail, as the sender is offering ISK doubling service in his Bio, I acted with full trust. I never doubted any word he said. I just wanted to understand his foggy proposal. Of course he couldn't clarify it, as it was a scam.
A honest trade is a positive-sum transaction. Value is created, we both win. A good trader of course want to keep most of the surplus on his side. A honest trader can be clear: value is created this and that way and we split this and that way. Assuming that the scammer would be honest, his zero-sum scheme comes down to "you win, I lose". Of course at this point it would be obvious that he is a scammer (if he'd honestly want a "you win, I lose", he'd offer no scheme, just send a gift). So a scammer must go with the line "you win because of X and I win too because of blah-blah-blah-bullshit". So catching a scammer is about figuring out how is his proposal will create surplus value.
His initial mail and the responses are beyond the click. Please note how he avoided giving simple answers for simple questions. Of course - like with many disasters - it is possible that it wasn't a scam, but someone totally incompetent wanted to start something pointless.
Anti Goon Alliance
From: Erotica 1
Sent: 2014.01.17 06:35
To: Gevlon Goblin,
I will not post a serious comment in your thread for obvious reasons. But it is no secret the deep rift between me and Goons now, as a certain someone there took things way too far, and encouraged the masses to do the same. If you are serious about this, I will do it on an alt and bring some guys together for a long-term project.-Ero
Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Gevlon Goblin
Sent: 2014.01.17 18:37
To: Erotica 1
Darwins Lemmings is open to all, feel free to put a corp into it. My agreement with Marmite is for 6 months minimum and war fee for this time is secured.
Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Erotica 1
Sent: 2014.01.17 20:51
To: Gevlon Goblin,
Yeah, I saw that one page 5 and I'm on like page 11 now. Tora is a good choice, and I'm glad it has been done as a new alliance, because he would have been paying to dec them anyway on a regular basis for Marmite. The risk is just having limited skill alts of his current Marmites join it.
I think it would be hilarious to have a second alliance dedicated to this for 2 reasons:
1. Friendly competition between the two, encouraging each to grow faster and get more kills than the other.
2. Hedge your bets and increase chances of success.
Also, it would be quite funny, possibly spawning additional efforts by others.
One option to reduce redundant costs would be to have the second alliance start off by being dedicated to deccing the renter alliance, or another within CFC.
I wish you and Tora the best of luck in the current endeavor. While I am not willing at this time to fund a second alliance myself, I am open (and interested) in forming one and growing it. I would not use my name openly at first for "reasons," but have no problem being known to be associated with it after some time has passed, of my choosing.
Here was going to be my proposal, and I'm still willing (and quite happy) to do it:
1. I'll start a new account (Goons know all of my current accounts- 2 active and 20 inactive), put a minimally skilled pilot in as executor, and switch training to alt slot for ceo of main corp, first training corp skills exclusively. Ero has empire control 4, but I'm not moving her out of KOP for that- there is plenty of time for the required training s
2. Initial funding is provided at beginning and/or ongoing to fund certain expenses.
3. Over time, alliance would become self-funding and require no outside funds. There would be some general expectation loot from wartargets would be split with something like 25-50% going to alliance, maybe only 10%, but some level. No corp taxes, and actively encourage and teach new players to make their own isk and only risk cheap ships of their own. With the right personal touch... outside funds from all sorts of players might start coming in over time, much like the New Order gets.
4. Longer term, implement my original plans against CVA space instead against CFC. This is basically drop 100's of SBU's at once in their territory, concentrated in a particular region (the whole region) while actively working with PL, NC., and others to flip sov- not to take it for ourselves, but make it up for grabs for anyone and everyone- encouraging many alliances to converge into CFC space at once, ideally in a coordinated manner, assigning space to divy up, and most likely during a period where they are actively deployed somewhere else in another war. Very likely, terms of having a set pocket of space for alliance protected by a major alliance, without having to defend it ourselves will come with this. This goal would not be made public until it occurs.
Initial Funding:
1. 6-12 plex to immediately apply to the new account.
2. Your choice, either 12 months of wardec fees for one alliance of your choosing- gsf, their rental alliance, etc., or simply deposit the required funds monthly. I forget if you can set wars to autopay as I have done with other expenses like office rent, but if so, just have it pay automatically. For security, no other directors in executor corp other than you if you wish, as well as main corp, or at least accounting roles so you can see fund flows.
3. Initial funds (or assets) for gifts to new players to Eve- this would likely be 5-10 t1 fit destroyers, a couple frigates, and a set of skillbooks. This would not be much, maybe 1-2 billion isk worth, to fund gifts for the first 100 brand new players. Veterans placing alts or themselves in corp would be expected to self fund.
While I will not publicly associate myself with the alliance as Ero at first, I would still use my rolodex to start staffing it. The main focus of my new corp would be to recruit brand new players to Eve. Other existing pvp corps would be actively recruited to join alliance, probably starting with the former members of KOP's prior alliance as well as the prospects we had in the pipeline.
I am partial to having this new alliance dec the renter alliance, and ideally GSF as well. Goonswarm started the rental program out of necessity. In any war, going after a major source of the enemy's funding is key. I can put in some experienced small gang and large blob FC's, as well as current alts of CFC members who have kept their alts secret and only use CFC membership for economic benefit. In later stages, this will become important to internally affect morale within CFC, and ongoing to provide some intel.
As soon as pilot numbers are reasonable, there would be regular roams into CFC space, focussing on their income- harrassing their renters, blowing up the POSes at their moons, and putting siphons on as many of them as reasonably possible. It would also be funny to put up some pocos at 75-100% tax in their own space. As far as pocos in highsec, we may or may not have a campaign to take them over, but t the very least we'd regularly take potshots at them and POSes to generate notifications. Over time, this can lead to more muted responses when they are actually being taken.
Oh, and I'd surely setup and actively maintain some sort of blog for this. A donation of a TS server with 100+ slots and an alliance forum and killboard would be appreciated.
Sincerely,
-Ero
Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Gevlon Goblin
Sent: 2014.01.17 21:50
To: Erotica 1,
I don't get it why don't you just place an altcorp into this alliance?
Re: Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Erotica 1
Sent: 2014.01.17 21:57
To: Gevlon Goblin,
Because it is easier for me to recruit corps and players when I am in charge. I recruited for my last alliance and the executor basically burned that down and was embarrassing for me, and I don't want a repeat of that, as much as I like and respect my friend Tora.
If you need some TEST references, you can each out to Iamien (ok bad example lol) or Daquaris. You'd be surprised at my prior service to TEST :o)
Anyway, gotta run out the door.
Seeya
Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Gevlon Goblin
Sent: 2014.01.17 22:04
To: Erotica 1
How about this: you form a corp into the alliance. If the alliance fails or your corp becomes prominent within Lemmings, I simply shift my funding to you, you take your corp, form new alliance, I urge other Lemmings to follow you. But currently I'm very satisfied with Marmite and see no reason to give up a well-ran organization for a feint hope.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Erotica 1
Sent: 2014.01.17 22:15
To: Gevlon Goblin,
I can do that, though it still has the problem of me not being able to offer honest promises to recruiting whole corps as I can't control the direction.How about this... I fund a startup as I discussed, but ask that you strongly consider coming in with additional funding in about 3 months if things work out. Having control of the branding is very important to me.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Gevlon Goblin
Sent: 2014.01.18 04:52
To: Erotica 1,
There is no reason to have two identical goal alliances.
And yes, you can make honest promises to recruit PvP corps as we invite them all. There isn't a single serious PvP corp turned down.
All I see is that you want to put your name to the top position from my money. Either start it from your own, or just join Lemmings.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Erotica 1
Sent: 2014.01.18 05:00
To: Gevlon Goblin,
Think outside the box, that conventional thinking is annoying, no offense.
One alliance is just funny. 2 leads to friendly competition and possibly spawns more. The prior 3 of 3 alliances I have been in, prior to CODE, all leaderships lied to the newer corps and line members so that they could line their own pockets. I'm not suggesting that is the case now, but I won't risk it with my honor (among friends.)
I don't care about "serious" pvp corps. Some will join, but it's important to me to attract a wide mix of players and corps.
Yes, I prefer to use other people's money whenever possible, but I do not want to use my name at all, except among friends. The new character will not be publicly tied to me whatsoever until I step down and hand the reins to someone else. The main reason for this is it would attract unwanted attention from Goonswarm far beyond anything an alliance like Lemmings would generate.
I also have my own goals which are complementary, but separate.
If Tora puts full effort into it, the forever war alliance you are funding for him will be a smashing success. If he gets bored with it, it will die. I am willing to make this a multiyear effort from the start if/when I start it.
Warm Regards,
-Ero
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Gevlon Goblin
Sent: 2014.01.18 05:05
To: Erotica 1,
If you don't even publicize your name, what exactly would be the selling point of your corp? Also your previous main problem with Lemmings was that the leadership might burn out. Here you are already planning your stepping down.
So I still don't see what is this "multilayer effort"? Sending a few mails to your own buddies?
Please simply write down what you would do in this project.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Erotica 1
Sent: 2014.01.18 05:09
To: Gevlon Goblin,
read the prior evemails. I dislike repeating myself. My skills are in strategy, networking, and raising funds. Others can and will be brought in to do most of the work. I would mainly provide direction and inspiration. My friends will know who I am, my name is irrelevant to the rest as anyone can build a large alliance with enough minions recruiting.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Gevlon Goblin
Sent: 2014.01.18 05:14
To: Erotica 1,
What strategy needed in "undock and shoot nearest Goon"?
What network is needed for an "every man is invited" alliance?
What funds are needed when the only cost is the wardec cost?
Who would you direct and inspire if you don't even tell your name? Your friends? You can inspire them inside Lemmings telling "OK, let's see if they work, if they don't, we quit en masse and I make a new alliance, Gevlon will pay it" note: I will pay it as I want it to work. If Marmite directors burn out, I'll need backup and your offer comes handy in this case.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Erotica 1
Sent: 2014.01.18 05:48
To: Gevlon Goblin,
Camping trade hubs is the Marmite favorite, not mine. Let me address your questions with numbers to make it easier to break down.
1. What strategy needed in "undock and shoot nearest Goon"?
A. That is something everyone can certainly do if they wish. For me, it would be more enjoyable to directly attack their jf routes and thir gate camps of highsec. Once numbers are sufficient there would be numerous hit and run types of attacks on a variety of targets including but not limited to pocos- POSes in lowsec and null, and more. I throughly enjoyed fucking with TEST markets, which was my only actual GSF thing I did when I was there, outside of mentoring scammers. I would likely get a number of guys to do the same on a larger scale but with CFC staging systems as the target. That is just what comes to mind. Most FC's and alliance leaderships mainly just plan how to run their armies into others head on like fucking redcoats. I can't stand that shit. There is very little originality in nullsec, and very few willing to think outside the box. That will change.
2. What network is needed for an "every man is invited" alliance?
A. Critical mass. There are plenty of such corps and alliances in this game, and most stay tiny, because nothing sets them apart. Seeding the alliance with active corps of various types and continuing that as it otherwise organically grows is important to achieve a respectable size before the 20 year anniversary. Once numbers are sufficient, far more people are willing to join. This is essential. Also, I have very open standards. There would be very limited rules- mainly just the obvious such as no spying/awoxing. Keep in mind the will be overlap between the leadership styles of me and Tora, but there will naturally be differences. These differences will cast a wider net, making the sum of players in both alliances greater than the numbers if I simply joined a corp in his alliance.
3. What funds are needed when the only cost is the wardec cost?
A. That is mainly it, but because I am cheap, I was hoping to have you pay the costs rather than me- no other reason (well, you would be more likely to mention both alliances in your blog, which is a win/win/win for everyone). For instance, I'm perfectly happy having brand new players train for an extremely cheap noob ship doctrine if necessary, though most likely will be cats. Any ship, no matter how cheap, can be effective for most tasks in numbers. Of course, it would be ineffective in huge fleet fights, but that's not what we would do anyway.
Who would you direct and inspire if you don't even tell your name?
A. My name only goes so far- mainly certain people on the forums or minerbumping readers whom I do not know and rarely speak up. Given my recent history with GSF and my clash with a prior GSF alliance CEO, my name would not help growth of the alliance- it would hinder it and honestly make me question whether I even want to mess with it. Erotica 1's brand was crafted on purpose, very deliberately. The new character would grow a new reputation from scratch, though I'd openly say I'm an alt of a known character. I would only mention Ero's name far down the road to add to my legacy, nothing more. There is a lot on my "bucket list" in Eve.
I would likely create a blog in the style of Minerbumping. It would have low traffic at first, but I believe it would have strong potential to grow. Only so much can be achieved by pvp skills in Eve. It is more important to win over the hearts and minds of others.
I had no intentions of asking for unlimited or neverending funding. I just wanted to tag your name on it and use some of your isk, both of which would give it a jump start better than my plans because I've learned over time that my projects outside of isk doubling are rarely profitable for me personally. And while those things are important, the biggest benefit by far would be exposure in your forum posts and on your blog of the new alliance alongside the other one, plus any others than spring up. Even if it's all trolling by CFC, a bump is a bump on the forums, and you already have readership on your blog.
I will not lead a coup in Tora's alliance regardless of the situation. It would leave a bad taste in my mouth. You have to keep in mind that only a subset of my intended corporations I would recruit would join this for the primary benefit of the stated purpose. These are guys that would join because I ask and because I'm in charge- which mainly means leaving them be to do whatever they do anyway, with the added bonus of being able to freely shoot goons in highsec and low without concerns of Concord or gate guns. That is not something I am comfortable ever again doing within someone else's alliance.
I don't know your real motivations- like what drives you in this beyond the fact they fucked over TEST and grr goons and all. I have very personal reasons and the willingness to see this through regardless of isk or time involved. I don't know how much you know about why I joined GSF and why I left, but let me tell you, I won't forget, and I won't forgive.
:o)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Gevlon Goblin
Sent: 2014.01.18 05:58
To: Erotica 1,
If you are planning nullsec attacks, why do you need wardecs at the first place? There is no Concord in Deklein. Also, having guerillas in Goon space if anything but out-of-the-box, zkillboard is full of Goonbear ganks.
Critical mass: this is what I'm worried about. If we split the limited membership into two alliances, we get two smaller, while one bigger would have larger "join the zerg" effect.
Creating an anonymous blog? That doesn't look like a good idea. Blog audience grow slowly, having a jumpstart name is great.
But the main problem is the same: you could achieve all of it in a corp within Lemmings. I still don't see reason for a second alliance.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Erotica 1
Sent: 2014.01.18 06:11
To: Gevlon Goblin,
1. nullsec attacks would come later when the numbers support it. They would not be the one thing we do- they would be an option, and once we have enough pilots who enjoy that, we would do it. hit and run is not out of the box. Landing a small fleet of disco ships repeatedly in the center of a blob, while bombers decloak and warping off to prealigned safes while they engage other targets is, leaving to go do whatever we feel like while a weakened force continues to fight PL or whomever. Going around and taking potshots at all their pocos but not making any attempt to take any and then take a bunch is, etc.
2. It is a movement. While anti-CFC sentements have existed a long time, no one does anything about it other than a handful of nullsec alliances. Having 2 alliances grow and have success for similar goals but different leaderships is far more interesting than a single one. I would much rather have 10 or 20 similar but smaller alliances all go after the same goal than have one that runs the risk of becoming the next GSF. I have little interest in holding sov, but a lot of interest in causing chaos in the current envirnment.
3. I am sure there would be regular mentions of it on other blogs and the forum. An active forum presense and forum sig can go a long way. It is not anonymous- it is the start of a new brand name, but not by a random person new to eve, simply a new character.
4. I can't make you see things from my point of view, so for the time being we can agree to disagree on that last part. I havemy reasons, which I have tried to express without going into a rant of precisely what they are- ;let's just say that the shortsightednes of certain people in GSF and the extent to which they will take a game and go after someone personally outside of game to achieve their in game desired results is sickening. While I had seen it before from a relative distance, I saw it up close and personal.
I'll create the new account tonight and start with some basic corp skills training and start having some conversations. I'm not going to like have 100 people tomorrow, but let's just see where it leads. It could end up that I get 1,000 people and they all join lemmings and that's cool too.
Seeya
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Gevlon Goblin
Sent: 2014.01.18 06:37
To: Erotica 1,
OK, the blogpost is already over 20K characters, so I cut it short.
I'm honestly surprised you could scam out anyones money with these skills. I don't know what you were thinking when you came to scam me with ISK DOUBLING AD in your bio?!!!
Anyway, you at least provided me a great textbook material about "how to identify scammers"
Don't bother replying!
Note: he did bother replying and trying to convince me he is honest so busily that I had to block the punk!
Lemmings reached 100 members! Join!
Yesterday I wrote how Marmite will massacre Goons due to the permawar I finance. I checked their killboard and found a kill. It's not a multi-billion one. But still, it made me smile. If you read my blog often, you know why (not just for the epic fit).
Also, fighting Goons had unforseen results:
Below you can see copy-pastes of EVEmails, which can be perfect example how to catch a scammer with 100% efficiency. The trick is: don't! While it was obvious that it's a scam attempt before I opened the first mail, as the sender is offering ISK doubling service in his Bio, I acted with full trust. I never doubted any word he said. I just wanted to understand his foggy proposal. Of course he couldn't clarify it, as it was a scam.
A honest trade is a positive-sum transaction. Value is created, we both win. A good trader of course want to keep most of the surplus on his side. A honest trader can be clear: value is created this and that way and we split this and that way. Assuming that the scammer would be honest, his zero-sum scheme comes down to "you win, I lose". Of course at this point it would be obvious that he is a scammer (if he'd honestly want a "you win, I lose", he'd offer no scheme, just send a gift). So a scammer must go with the line "you win because of X and I win too because of blah-blah-blah-bullshit". So catching a scammer is about figuring out how is his proposal will create surplus value.
His initial mail and the responses are beyond the click. Please note how he avoided giving simple answers for simple questions. Of course - like with many disasters - it is possible that it wasn't a scam, but someone totally incompetent wanted to start something pointless.
Anti Goon Alliance
From: Erotica 1
Sent: 2014.01.17 06:35
To: Gevlon Goblin,
I will not post a serious comment in your thread for obvious reasons. But it is no secret the deep rift between me and Goons now, as a certain someone there took things way too far, and encouraged the masses to do the same. If you are serious about this, I will do it on an alt and bring some guys together for a long-term project.-Ero
Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Gevlon Goblin
Sent: 2014.01.17 18:37
To: Erotica 1
Darwins Lemmings is open to all, feel free to put a corp into it. My agreement with Marmite is for 6 months minimum and war fee for this time is secured.
Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Erotica 1
Sent: 2014.01.17 20:51
To: Gevlon Goblin,
Yeah, I saw that one page 5 and I'm on like page 11 now. Tora is a good choice, and I'm glad it has been done as a new alliance, because he would have been paying to dec them anyway on a regular basis for Marmite. The risk is just having limited skill alts of his current Marmites join it.
I think it would be hilarious to have a second alliance dedicated to this for 2 reasons:
1. Friendly competition between the two, encouraging each to grow faster and get more kills than the other.
2. Hedge your bets and increase chances of success.
Also, it would be quite funny, possibly spawning additional efforts by others.
One option to reduce redundant costs would be to have the second alliance start off by being dedicated to deccing the renter alliance, or another within CFC.
I wish you and Tora the best of luck in the current endeavor. While I am not willing at this time to fund a second alliance myself, I am open (and interested) in forming one and growing it. I would not use my name openly at first for "reasons," but have no problem being known to be associated with it after some time has passed, of my choosing.
Here was going to be my proposal, and I'm still willing (and quite happy) to do it:
1. I'll start a new account (Goons know all of my current accounts- 2 active and 20 inactive), put a minimally skilled pilot in as executor, and switch training to alt slot for ceo of main corp, first training corp skills exclusively. Ero has empire control 4, but I'm not moving her out of KOP for that- there is plenty of time for the required training s
2. Initial funding is provided at beginning and/or ongoing to fund certain expenses.
3. Over time, alliance would become self-funding and require no outside funds. There would be some general expectation loot from wartargets would be split with something like 25-50% going to alliance, maybe only 10%, but some level. No corp taxes, and actively encourage and teach new players to make their own isk and only risk cheap ships of their own. With the right personal touch... outside funds from all sorts of players might start coming in over time, much like the New Order gets.
4. Longer term, implement my original plans against CVA space instead against CFC. This is basically drop 100's of SBU's at once in their territory, concentrated in a particular region (the whole region) while actively working with PL, NC., and others to flip sov- not to take it for ourselves, but make it up for grabs for anyone and everyone- encouraging many alliances to converge into CFC space at once, ideally in a coordinated manner, assigning space to divy up, and most likely during a period where they are actively deployed somewhere else in another war. Very likely, terms of having a set pocket of space for alliance protected by a major alliance, without having to defend it ourselves will come with this. This goal would not be made public until it occurs.
Initial Funding:
1. 6-12 plex to immediately apply to the new account.
2. Your choice, either 12 months of wardec fees for one alliance of your choosing- gsf, their rental alliance, etc., or simply deposit the required funds monthly. I forget if you can set wars to autopay as I have done with other expenses like office rent, but if so, just have it pay automatically. For security, no other directors in executor corp other than you if you wish, as well as main corp, or at least accounting roles so you can see fund flows.
3. Initial funds (or assets) for gifts to new players to Eve- this would likely be 5-10 t1 fit destroyers, a couple frigates, and a set of skillbooks. This would not be much, maybe 1-2 billion isk worth, to fund gifts for the first 100 brand new players. Veterans placing alts or themselves in corp would be expected to self fund.
While I will not publicly associate myself with the alliance as Ero at first, I would still use my rolodex to start staffing it. The main focus of my new corp would be to recruit brand new players to Eve. Other existing pvp corps would be actively recruited to join alliance, probably starting with the former members of KOP's prior alliance as well as the prospects we had in the pipeline.
I am partial to having this new alliance dec the renter alliance, and ideally GSF as well. Goonswarm started the rental program out of necessity. In any war, going after a major source of the enemy's funding is key. I can put in some experienced small gang and large blob FC's, as well as current alts of CFC members who have kept their alts secret and only use CFC membership for economic benefit. In later stages, this will become important to internally affect morale within CFC, and ongoing to provide some intel.
As soon as pilot numbers are reasonable, there would be regular roams into CFC space, focussing on their income- harrassing their renters, blowing up the POSes at their moons, and putting siphons on as many of them as reasonably possible. It would also be funny to put up some pocos at 75-100% tax in their own space. As far as pocos in highsec, we may or may not have a campaign to take them over, but t the very least we'd regularly take potshots at them and POSes to generate notifications. Over time, this can lead to more muted responses when they are actually being taken.
Oh, and I'd surely setup and actively maintain some sort of blog for this. A donation of a TS server with 100+ slots and an alliance forum and killboard would be appreciated.
Sincerely,
-Ero
Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Gevlon Goblin
Sent: 2014.01.17 21:50
To: Erotica 1,
I don't get it why don't you just place an altcorp into this alliance?
Re: Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Erotica 1
Sent: 2014.01.17 21:57
To: Gevlon Goblin,
Because it is easier for me to recruit corps and players when I am in charge. I recruited for my last alliance and the executor basically burned that down and was embarrassing for me, and I don't want a repeat of that, as much as I like and respect my friend Tora.
If you need some TEST references, you can each out to Iamien (ok bad example lol) or Daquaris. You'd be surprised at my prior service to TEST :o)
Anyway, gotta run out the door.
Seeya
Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Gevlon Goblin
Sent: 2014.01.17 22:04
To: Erotica 1
How about this: you form a corp into the alliance. If the alliance fails or your corp becomes prominent within Lemmings, I simply shift my funding to you, you take your corp, form new alliance, I urge other Lemmings to follow you. But currently I'm very satisfied with Marmite and see no reason to give up a well-ran organization for a feint hope.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Erotica 1
Sent: 2014.01.17 22:15
To: Gevlon Goblin,
I can do that, though it still has the problem of me not being able to offer honest promises to recruiting whole corps as I can't control the direction.How about this... I fund a startup as I discussed, but ask that you strongly consider coming in with additional funding in about 3 months if things work out. Having control of the branding is very important to me.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Gevlon Goblin
Sent: 2014.01.18 04:52
To: Erotica 1,
There is no reason to have two identical goal alliances.
And yes, you can make honest promises to recruit PvP corps as we invite them all. There isn't a single serious PvP corp turned down.
All I see is that you want to put your name to the top position from my money. Either start it from your own, or just join Lemmings.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Erotica 1
Sent: 2014.01.18 05:00
To: Gevlon Goblin,
Think outside the box, that conventional thinking is annoying, no offense.
One alliance is just funny. 2 leads to friendly competition and possibly spawns more. The prior 3 of 3 alliances I have been in, prior to CODE, all leaderships lied to the newer corps and line members so that they could line their own pockets. I'm not suggesting that is the case now, but I won't risk it with my honor (among friends.)
I don't care about "serious" pvp corps. Some will join, but it's important to me to attract a wide mix of players and corps.
Yes, I prefer to use other people's money whenever possible, but I do not want to use my name at all, except among friends. The new character will not be publicly tied to me whatsoever until I step down and hand the reins to someone else. The main reason for this is it would attract unwanted attention from Goonswarm far beyond anything an alliance like Lemmings would generate.
I also have my own goals which are complementary, but separate.
If Tora puts full effort into it, the forever war alliance you are funding for him will be a smashing success. If he gets bored with it, it will die. I am willing to make this a multiyear effort from the start if/when I start it.
Warm Regards,
-Ero
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Gevlon Goblin
Sent: 2014.01.18 05:05
To: Erotica 1,
If you don't even publicize your name, what exactly would be the selling point of your corp? Also your previous main problem with Lemmings was that the leadership might burn out. Here you are already planning your stepping down.
So I still don't see what is this "multilayer effort"? Sending a few mails to your own buddies?
Please simply write down what you would do in this project.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Erotica 1
Sent: 2014.01.18 05:09
To: Gevlon Goblin,
read the prior evemails. I dislike repeating myself. My skills are in strategy, networking, and raising funds. Others can and will be brought in to do most of the work. I would mainly provide direction and inspiration. My friends will know who I am, my name is irrelevant to the rest as anyone can build a large alliance with enough minions recruiting.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Gevlon Goblin
Sent: 2014.01.18 05:14
To: Erotica 1,
What strategy needed in "undock and shoot nearest Goon"?
What network is needed for an "every man is invited" alliance?
What funds are needed when the only cost is the wardec cost?
Who would you direct and inspire if you don't even tell your name? Your friends? You can inspire them inside Lemmings telling "OK, let's see if they work, if they don't, we quit en masse and I make a new alliance, Gevlon will pay it" note: I will pay it as I want it to work. If Marmite directors burn out, I'll need backup and your offer comes handy in this case.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Erotica 1
Sent: 2014.01.18 05:48
To: Gevlon Goblin,
Camping trade hubs is the Marmite favorite, not mine. Let me address your questions with numbers to make it easier to break down.
1. What strategy needed in "undock and shoot nearest Goon"?
A. That is something everyone can certainly do if they wish. For me, it would be more enjoyable to directly attack their jf routes and thir gate camps of highsec. Once numbers are sufficient there would be numerous hit and run types of attacks on a variety of targets including but not limited to pocos- POSes in lowsec and null, and more. I throughly enjoyed fucking with TEST markets, which was my only actual GSF thing I did when I was there, outside of mentoring scammers. I would likely get a number of guys to do the same on a larger scale but with CFC staging systems as the target. That is just what comes to mind. Most FC's and alliance leaderships mainly just plan how to run their armies into others head on like fucking redcoats. I can't stand that shit. There is very little originality in nullsec, and very few willing to think outside the box. That will change.
2. What network is needed for an "every man is invited" alliance?
A. Critical mass. There are plenty of such corps and alliances in this game, and most stay tiny, because nothing sets them apart. Seeding the alliance with active corps of various types and continuing that as it otherwise organically grows is important to achieve a respectable size before the 20 year anniversary. Once numbers are sufficient, far more people are willing to join. This is essential. Also, I have very open standards. There would be very limited rules- mainly just the obvious such as no spying/awoxing. Keep in mind the will be overlap between the leadership styles of me and Tora, but there will naturally be differences. These differences will cast a wider net, making the sum of players in both alliances greater than the numbers if I simply joined a corp in his alliance.
3. What funds are needed when the only cost is the wardec cost?
A. That is mainly it, but because I am cheap, I was hoping to have you pay the costs rather than me- no other reason (well, you would be more likely to mention both alliances in your blog, which is a win/win/win for everyone). For instance, I'm perfectly happy having brand new players train for an extremely cheap noob ship doctrine if necessary, though most likely will be cats. Any ship, no matter how cheap, can be effective for most tasks in numbers. Of course, it would be ineffective in huge fleet fights, but that's not what we would do anyway.
Who would you direct and inspire if you don't even tell your name?
A. My name only goes so far- mainly certain people on the forums or minerbumping readers whom I do not know and rarely speak up. Given my recent history with GSF and my clash with a prior GSF alliance CEO, my name would not help growth of the alliance- it would hinder it and honestly make me question whether I even want to mess with it. Erotica 1's brand was crafted on purpose, very deliberately. The new character would grow a new reputation from scratch, though I'd openly say I'm an alt of a known character. I would only mention Ero's name far down the road to add to my legacy, nothing more. There is a lot on my "bucket list" in Eve.
I would likely create a blog in the style of Minerbumping. It would have low traffic at first, but I believe it would have strong potential to grow. Only so much can be achieved by pvp skills in Eve. It is more important to win over the hearts and minds of others.
I had no intentions of asking for unlimited or neverending funding. I just wanted to tag your name on it and use some of your isk, both of which would give it a jump start better than my plans because I've learned over time that my projects outside of isk doubling are rarely profitable for me personally. And while those things are important, the biggest benefit by far would be exposure in your forum posts and on your blog of the new alliance alongside the other one, plus any others than spring up. Even if it's all trolling by CFC, a bump is a bump on the forums, and you already have readership on your blog.
I will not lead a coup in Tora's alliance regardless of the situation. It would leave a bad taste in my mouth. You have to keep in mind that only a subset of my intended corporations I would recruit would join this for the primary benefit of the stated purpose. These are guys that would join because I ask and because I'm in charge- which mainly means leaving them be to do whatever they do anyway, with the added bonus of being able to freely shoot goons in highsec and low without concerns of Concord or gate guns. That is not something I am comfortable ever again doing within someone else's alliance.
I don't know your real motivations- like what drives you in this beyond the fact they fucked over TEST and grr goons and all. I have very personal reasons and the willingness to see this through regardless of isk or time involved. I don't know how much you know about why I joined GSF and why I left, but let me tell you, I won't forget, and I won't forgive.
:o)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Gevlon Goblin
Sent: 2014.01.18 05:58
To: Erotica 1,
If you are planning nullsec attacks, why do you need wardecs at the first place? There is no Concord in Deklein. Also, having guerillas in Goon space if anything but out-of-the-box, zkillboard is full of Goonbear ganks.
Critical mass: this is what I'm worried about. If we split the limited membership into two alliances, we get two smaller, while one bigger would have larger "join the zerg" effect.
Creating an anonymous blog? That doesn't look like a good idea. Blog audience grow slowly, having a jumpstart name is great.
But the main problem is the same: you could achieve all of it in a corp within Lemmings. I still don't see reason for a second alliance.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Erotica 1
Sent: 2014.01.18 06:11
To: Gevlon Goblin,
1. nullsec attacks would come later when the numbers support it. They would not be the one thing we do- they would be an option, and once we have enough pilots who enjoy that, we would do it. hit and run is not out of the box. Landing a small fleet of disco ships repeatedly in the center of a blob, while bombers decloak and warping off to prealigned safes while they engage other targets is, leaving to go do whatever we feel like while a weakened force continues to fight PL or whomever. Going around and taking potshots at all their pocos but not making any attempt to take any and then take a bunch is, etc.
2. It is a movement. While anti-CFC sentements have existed a long time, no one does anything about it other than a handful of nullsec alliances. Having 2 alliances grow and have success for similar goals but different leaderships is far more interesting than a single one. I would much rather have 10 or 20 similar but smaller alliances all go after the same goal than have one that runs the risk of becoming the next GSF. I have little interest in holding sov, but a lot of interest in causing chaos in the current envirnment.
3. I am sure there would be regular mentions of it on other blogs and the forum. An active forum presense and forum sig can go a long way. It is not anonymous- it is the start of a new brand name, but not by a random person new to eve, simply a new character.
4. I can't make you see things from my point of view, so for the time being we can agree to disagree on that last part. I havemy reasons, which I have tried to express without going into a rant of precisely what they are- ;let's just say that the shortsightednes of certain people in GSF and the extent to which they will take a game and go after someone personally outside of game to achieve their in game desired results is sickening. While I had seen it before from a relative distance, I saw it up close and personal.
I'll create the new account tonight and start with some basic corp skills training and start having some conversations. I'm not going to like have 100 people tomorrow, but let's just see where it leads. It could end up that I get 1,000 people and they all join lemmings and that's cool too.
Seeya
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti Goon Alliance
From: Gevlon Goblin
Sent: 2014.01.18 06:37
To: Erotica 1,
OK, the blogpost is already over 20K characters, so I cut it short.
I'm honestly surprised you could scam out anyones money with these skills. I don't know what you were thinking when you came to scam me with ISK DOUBLING AD in your bio?!!!
Anyway, you at least provided me a great textbook material about "how to identify scammers"
Don't bother replying!
Note: he did bother replying and trying to convince me he is honest so busily that I had to block the punk!
21 comments:
I'm not gonna read all that, but I assure you Erotica 1 wouldn't assume you don't know who he is. He probably assumed you do know who he is.
Erotica 1 is one of the best known scammer in EVE. Yet you didn't seem to know that based on your post. It's things like these that makes EVE so challenging for you (I'll fully grant that you're great at ganking miners and making isk but many other things aren't going so well... )
LR
@Anonymous: how knowing him would have helped me? He couldn't scam me after all.
I mean the point of the post is that you don't have to know the person, just clarify the plan.
I can't believe he would waste all the time in to those wall of texts. For the time it took to write that he would have earned that isk he tried to scam just by updating trading orders.
@
"I can't believe he would waste all the time in to those wall of texts. For the time it took to write that he would have earned that isk he tried to scam just by updating trading orders."
He probably did it at the same time as running scams. Erotica 1 is shockingly good at making people hand over buckets of isk, eve with his rep.
It is really funny though the Gevlon has no clue who he is and entertained him with what is clearly an enormous troll. Whether you thought you were being clever or not, that's what he wanted.
@Lucas: so he spent hours writing just to serve as an example how to be caught? Was it some community service then?
Good scammer, had me sold that he was sincere about goon bashing, but like gevlon says it falls down upon "why dont you just join lemmings with a corp? if it works out and marmites get bored, you take over then". Making a second alliance really DOESNT make sense and thats the point of the blog post. If it doesnt feel right, dont do it.
Ps, yr cpatcha is getting harder to do all the time. Getting harder and harder to post here.
He scammed you into replying, and you fell for it hook line and sinker. Erotic 1 pretty much assumes everyone knows he's a scammer already so he attempts these wild, obvious scams just to make it all the more hilarious when someone falls for it. He's mostly in it to troll and get some laughs out of you, getting any money is just a bonus.
@Gevlon
"so he spent hours writing just to serve as an example how to be caught? Was it some community service then?"
No, he spent hours because that's what he does. He like to do these enormously long and pointless things, I guess scamming must be kinda boring like mining or something so it adds a bit of fun. Seriously, look him up. there's like 9 hours recordings of him trolling people for fun. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan, but I hardly think a few eve-mails really dented his time compared with some of the outrageously time wasting stuff he's done.
Even as a relatively new player (3 months old) I know that Erotica 1 is one of the most notorious scammers in Jita. I guess he was just trolling here...
here we go again.
comments say. "scamming for fun not for money. that was his plan all along, good laughs and kpop pictures in lolchat"
you know here in this blog realm. that everyone is laughing at you. If you scam just for the fun of it ... we will call it a conversation. to change a conversation into a scam there need to be the ISK/Asset flow otherwise you don't have a scam.
If Ero1 did know who gevlon was. You know, casually read his blog for a week or two. As a scammer you have to be prepared with good arguments and miss information. And if Ero1 is that great. Than I should advise him not to join the RL phishing/scam market. It might hurt his feelings of greatness.
Ohh wow donations already. Gevlon what will you do with donations?
Funny how people emphasize the fact Gevlon didn't know Erotica beforehand... let me turn around the question: why should he?
I have blocked around hundreds of chars in Jita for scamming and spamming... why should I recognize any of them by name?
As Gevlon already mentioned, you protect yourself against scammers by recognizing their methods, not recognizing their names, which are easily hidden/changed.
Never heard of that guy before, but as soon as he wanted trust, I knew he was a scammer. Man people must be stupid to fall for this.
Also, expected the killmail to be lucas Kell, left disapointed. Looks like blog troll never does leave station
Ero is just another one of the many turds floating in the Eve punchbowl. Why anyone would willingly associate with such an obvious shitbag is beyond me. If he is telling the truth (probably not) it sounds like he got exactly what he deserves from Goonswarm.
Anom:
"Funny how people emphasize the fact Gevlon didn't know Erotica beforehand... let me turn around the question: why should he?"
because that guy is all over the (eve) internet.
not only was he featured less than two years ago on tmc, giving an interview on his isk.doubling service.
he's also almost daily on the forum, not only trolling, but also taking part in serious topics.
If Gevlon wouldn't waste that much of his eve.time writing blogposts about stuff that he doesn't know much about, and spend (much) more time reading other peoples blogs, as well as reddit, (goon)wikis, eveo-forum etc pp, he could be (by now) a very knowledged person.
though he complains about other people being ignorant of the game, and it's mechanics and isk-making, he himself keeps being ignorant about almost everything.
a right minded person, after getting an evemail from erotica1, would first google that name, second realise that one missed something vital about eve's metagame (though being very very active for two years by now), then understand that it might not be the best move to (once again) totaly emberass oneself on the internet.
that he keeps doing so is not only funny, but very sad in the same time.
To answer your question. No, he should not know, but he could.
@ GWI:
not wanna defend him, but, if you have been reading gg's blog, and it's comments' carefully, you might understand that that guy has more than one account - many more.
it's not unlikely that his pvp-char isn't the one that he's using for "trolling".
Though i find it fairly funny that somebody that rich still has to mine.
@GWI
"Never heard of that guy before, but as soon as he wanted trust, I knew he was a scammer. Man people must be stupid to fall for this."
People in fact are stupid. Seriously, look up old scams and see some of the dumbass stuff people have fallen for... It's makes you a little sad to know that people that dumb exist.
"Also, expected the killmail to be lucas Kell, left disapointed. Looks like blog troll never does leave station"
I in fact live in null, maybe you missed that somehow. What possible reason would I have for getting blown up on the Jita undock? I mean firstly, I'm not a goon, but then on top of that, I have alts to do my high sec trading and hauling for me. Seriously, its this exact reason that nobody actually cares about groups like Marmite, which is why despite years and years of war from several group like this, no null sec group has ever been brought down by high sec "PvP" (I use that term VERY loosely).
Why should Gevlon know who Erotica 1 is? The thing is that Gevlon more or less presents himself, as a blogger, as a commentator on EVE affairs.
It's almost as if a military commentator was talking about the war in Iraq but didn't know the country was mostly semi-arid to desert crossed by two large rivers, nor that it had oil. It's a bit startling to see such blind spots.
By not knowing who Erotica 1 was, it diminishes the quality of his post. Think how silly it would be if Gevlon wrote a post about POS and their uses and failed to mention they required fuel?
LR
You WAY overvalue this punk. He isn't relevant at all. Scamming in Jita has 0.0 effect on the universe.
we do not overvalue that "punk", but remind you of not educating yourself properly about the game.
that punk just happens to be the most current example for it.
@Daniel: I don't see why being educated in the game includes knowing random punks. The very point of the post is that such obscure knowledge is not needed. All you need to know is recognize the behavior.
"I don't see why being educated in the game includes knowing random punks."
a) cause he is not a random punk - but a very well known person.
b) cause it is not about the punk, but your attitude towards the game and blogging.
if you really think that you managed something great by telling that one is a scammer if that one states so all over the internet.
grats, this was one awesome acomplishment. my respect.
if you still do not understand, that many things could be easily figured by hitting google with some keywords, and your blog's purpose is to advice newbies in this game to not use google, reddit, eveo, tmc, en24 and and and
grats, i totally dig your attitude. my respect.
though i think that it is a very bad advice.
Post a Comment