I had a ganking campaign in February with the nice 52B worth of kills a month. Since I’ve realized that “big and powerful guys do whatever they want” is a lie and they are just padding their killboard and their ego with easy kills, I went on a quest to teach miners to tank their ships.
For most time, my corp only had one player in it, myself, the first and second non-me members joined days ago. I subtracted their kills from the corp result, leaving this one-man corp with 123.2B worth of kills in September. More than a thousand kills. I have a giant secure container with 749 corpses and the loot from the miners paid for all the ganks and some bonus.
123B is enough to buy PLEX to play for free for 19 years. It’s the price of a titan and a supercarrier. But it’s better to compare apples to apples. Let’s see how other corporations performed in the same month:
But the best isn’t outperforming Dreddit. GSF (the alliance) had an official highsec ganking campaign, the Caldari Ice Interdiction. The result couldn't be masked as a victory even on the Goon Fox News, they had to admit "Unfortunately, without sustained pressure to back up the talk, their victims quickly lose their fear and the game returns to normal." Why? Because the corp Bat Country, the main corp behind Miniluv, the Goon ganking organization booked 142B kills this month and most of them are nullsec kills (read: abandoned Querious, Delve, PB structures, TESTies in Curse and fellow Goons during their stupid thunderdome event). The Miniluv page (which can be incomplete) books 30 Exhumers and 94 Barges for September. We Gank Because We Care had 281 and 311. This is really apples to apples: the mighty griefers of EVE, in their annual tear campaign were significantly outdone in their declared goal by a single player. A “highsec publord” I might add. If I were The Mittani, Miniluv would be dissolved and Warr Akini summarily podded back to Empire to mine Veldspar. By the way, the New Order Logistics, the ganking corp of James 315 booked only 55 and 149 ships, 58B.
How could this happen? About a year ago the mining barges were rebalanced because previously they were killable by a 3 days old throwaway alt in a T1 ship. That part was necessary. But CCP didn’t give tools to miners to defend themselves, like enough PG and CPU to fit proper tank, but they were given raw EHP. A 390DPS is needed to kill a naked Retriever in 0.5, it’s not something that a throwaway alt can provide. This killed “for fun” ganking. A bored nullsec player can no longer start a recruit-a-friend 51-days free account and massacre miners for lulz. Barge deaths went nosedive and miners got used to be safe without lifting a finger.
But 390DPS isn’t much for someone who cares to get it. My T2 fit Cata has 740 and I can dualbox gankers, being able to destroy anything below Procurers and 2-lowslots-tanked Mackinaws. Unlike the other ganking groups that tried to solve the problem by throwing numbers on it, I put my trust in the solo player. A solo player doesn’t have to wait for others or suffer the incompetence of others. A ganking fleet spends more time lolling on childish jokes than actually flying out to gank and fail half of ganks because someone didn’t have ammo, had safety on, undocked in a pod or shot the wrong target. The results of the solo player depend on his actions. He ganks, when he wants, where he wants, without having to discuss with others or depending on their resources. The very anti-thesis of the slogan “the best EVE ship is friendship”.
What I did is clearly not something that you couldn’t do. No “l33t skillz” are needed to gank miners. That’s the point. Then why does your corp with hundreds or even thousands of members have similar amount of kills as a single guy? Because you are held back by the incompetent fools around you. The funds of your organization goes to handouts to the morons and slackers and in doctrines you have to limit yourself to the lowest common denominator (the bombless bomber). If you want to achieve something above the average, you can’t do it in a group whose membership is - by definition - average. It doesn’t matter what you aim for, the best approach is starting on your own.
Of course you can join forces for bigger tasks now and then, that’s why I formed a corp and recruit. But your main focus should be solo acting. If the everyday tasks are too big for you alone, you don’t need friends, you need to improve. Fleeting up to kill Orcas or deadspace fitted 50K EHP Mackinaws is normal. Needing a fleet to kill an untanked Mack is being a failure.
My stats matching thousand-men groups are the ultimate proof of selfishness, individualism and the rejection of “helping friends”. EVE and the rest of the MMOs are purely meritocratic: every single avatar started on an equal footing. If someone needs help, he isn’t unlucky or cute but lazy or dumb who needs a link to a guide and a kick in the butt and not handouts of resources or carrying him in groups to get on kills.
Tomorrow I’ll talk about “why” and the future plans regarding ganking.
PS: I really hope this was RMT. I mean no one can be this stupid.
While I use to post anti-tears, this piece of tear is so perfect that I must share with you:
For most time, my corp only had one player in it, myself, the first and second non-me members joined days ago. I subtracted their kills from the corp result, leaving this one-man corp with 123.2B worth of kills in September. More than a thousand kills. I have a giant secure container with 749 corpses and the loot from the miners paid for all the ganks and some bonus.
123B is enough to buy PLEX to play for free for 19 years. It’s the price of a titan and a supercarrier. But it’s better to compare apples to apples. Let’s see how other corporations performed in the same month:
- Goonwaffe (GSF): 354.3B
- D00M. (NC.): 122.9B
- Sniggerdly (PL): 445.0B
- Dreddit (TEST): 113.7B
- Red Federation (RvB): 176.2B
But the best isn’t outperforming Dreddit. GSF (the alliance) had an official highsec ganking campaign, the Caldari Ice Interdiction. The result couldn't be masked as a victory even on the Goon Fox News, they had to admit "Unfortunately, without sustained pressure to back up the talk, their victims quickly lose their fear and the game returns to normal." Why? Because the corp Bat Country, the main corp behind Miniluv, the Goon ganking organization booked 142B kills this month and most of them are nullsec kills (read: abandoned Querious, Delve, PB structures, TESTies in Curse and fellow Goons during their stupid thunderdome event). The Miniluv page (which can be incomplete) books 30 Exhumers and 94 Barges for September. We Gank Because We Care had 281 and 311. This is really apples to apples: the mighty griefers of EVE, in their annual tear campaign were significantly outdone in their declared goal by a single player. A “highsec publord” I might add. If I were The Mittani, Miniluv would be dissolved and Warr Akini summarily podded back to Empire to mine Veldspar. By the way, the New Order Logistics, the ganking corp of James 315 booked only 55 and 149 ships, 58B.
How could this happen? About a year ago the mining barges were rebalanced because previously they were killable by a 3 days old throwaway alt in a T1 ship. That part was necessary. But CCP didn’t give tools to miners to defend themselves, like enough PG and CPU to fit proper tank, but they were given raw EHP. A 390DPS is needed to kill a naked Retriever in 0.5, it’s not something that a throwaway alt can provide. This killed “for fun” ganking. A bored nullsec player can no longer start a recruit-a-friend 51-days free account and massacre miners for lulz. Barge deaths went nosedive and miners got used to be safe without lifting a finger.
But 390DPS isn’t much for someone who cares to get it. My T2 fit Cata has 740 and I can dualbox gankers, being able to destroy anything below Procurers and 2-lowslots-tanked Mackinaws. Unlike the other ganking groups that tried to solve the problem by throwing numbers on it, I put my trust in the solo player. A solo player doesn’t have to wait for others or suffer the incompetence of others. A ganking fleet spends more time lolling on childish jokes than actually flying out to gank and fail half of ganks because someone didn’t have ammo, had safety on, undocked in a pod or shot the wrong target. The results of the solo player depend on his actions. He ganks, when he wants, where he wants, without having to discuss with others or depending on their resources. The very anti-thesis of the slogan “the best EVE ship is friendship”.
What I did is clearly not something that you couldn’t do. No “l33t skillz” are needed to gank miners. That’s the point. Then why does your corp with hundreds or even thousands of members have similar amount of kills as a single guy? Because you are held back by the incompetent fools around you. The funds of your organization goes to handouts to the morons and slackers and in doctrines you have to limit yourself to the lowest common denominator (the bombless bomber). If you want to achieve something above the average, you can’t do it in a group whose membership is - by definition - average. It doesn’t matter what you aim for, the best approach is starting on your own.
Of course you can join forces for bigger tasks now and then, that’s why I formed a corp and recruit. But your main focus should be solo acting. If the everyday tasks are too big for you alone, you don’t need friends, you need to improve. Fleeting up to kill Orcas or deadspace fitted 50K EHP Mackinaws is normal. Needing a fleet to kill an untanked Mack is being a failure.
My stats matching thousand-men groups are the ultimate proof of selfishness, individualism and the rejection of “helping friends”. EVE and the rest of the MMOs are purely meritocratic: every single avatar started on an equal footing. If someone needs help, he isn’t unlucky or cute but lazy or dumb who needs a link to a guide and a kick in the butt and not handouts of resources or carrying him in groups to get on kills.
Tomorrow I’ll talk about “why” and the future plans regarding ganking.
PS: I really hope this was RMT. I mean no one can be this stupid.
While I use to post anti-tears, this piece of tear is so perfect that I must share with you:
19 comments:
Wow, that was a pretty rude message from Vestor Suhth. I could understand him being angry if you'd ganked his ship, but why would he be so angry about an unsuccessful gank attempt?
I mean, it WAS an unsuccessful gank attempt, wasn't it? After all, he "knows how to do loadouts" and "there was nothing wrong with his tank". So you couldn't possibly have successfully solo-ganked him? Could you?
..First, awesome job. That's a whole lot of ISK destroyed and a very nice collection of corpses.
Second, how many hours did you spend ganking that month? Hours/day?
Third, you have to divide that 123B by two, as you used two pilots to get that number. So 61.5B average per pilot. That is the clause that you put on the NulBlocs.
Fourth, isn't all of your time and energy "teaching" HighSec miners just as big of a waste as a NulBloc freighter pilot refueling POSs? You are letting M&S leech off of you. You are spoon feeding them good tanky fits and how to help their chances in avoiding being ganked. Just like you accuse WoW players of handing out welfare gear to M&S, you, Gevlon, are guilty of handing out welfare information.
And you arn't being compensated. Not very goblinish.
But wait, your are doing this because you want to? Are you doing it for fun?
Doesn't matter. Bottom line is you are spending countless amounts of time and energy for no profit, and to give welfare to M&S to boot!
Just like you call other people's activities for fun stupid and waste of time, this endeavor you are on is stupid and a waste of time.
@Carson: he died of course.
@Anonymous: look up the killboard, you see when did I gank.
61.5.B/average pilot. Actually 31B since I have scout and looter. GSF has 3500 members, 0.1B/pilot. Ouch even in this metric.
There is no such thing as "welfare information" as information isn't limited. If I give you my apple, I have no apple. If I give you my knowledge, I still have knowledge.
@Gevlon
But you did the work of collating and delivering that information, not to mention setting up the circumstances which make that delivery more dramatic. This is work, which takes up your time, for which you are not compensated. Meanwhile the M&S get the fruits of your labor for free.
Sure they also lost a mining barge to your gank, but that's not a necessary cost of their lesson since miners can learn on their own, and gankers don't have to teach them anything. No matter how you cut it you're still carrying the M&S.
Your comparison is still apples to oranges, unfortunately. You can't compare easy kills you can do on massive scale without any fear of anyone fighting back to real pvp kills. It's obvious finding a real enemy and winning is much harder, both in terms of time and skill required. Ganking miners just require to warp to a belt and press f1. Then repeat all day long. These are totally different things, but you still choose to compare them. What's the point? I can say I have more frigate kills than you scored in your entire career. And the question would still be the same - so what? You only showed how easy ganking is, but that's something we already knew since the beginning of eve.
"Carrying M&S" bit is straight up ridiculous.
With that approach, all activities that have any form of social meaning outside of profit are "carrying M&S". Individualism i like. Extreme individualism - not so much.
That being said, i'm also interested in how much time it took to amass those 150B worth of kills.
"61.5.B/average pilot. Actually 31B since I have scout and looter. GSF has 3500 members, 0.1B/pilot. Ouch even in this metric."
So you are using 4 accounts to solo gank.
61.5.B/average pilot. Actually 31B since I have scout and looter. GSF has 3500 members, 0.1B/pilot. Ouch even in this metric.
"There is no such thing as "welfare information" as information isn't limited. If I give you my apple, I have no apple. If I give you my knowledge, I still have knowledge."
Good, then your time is free, which is how the Mineral I Mine Are Free crowd also see it, because it reduces their overheads.
Firstly, I just want to say I do not understand the point you are trying to make with this post. What are you trying to say? It seems to be a rambling of unconnected comments rather that steered towards a point. Oh and I haven't giggled like you promised me so you owe me 1m isk in compensation.
I mean you talk about the ice interdiction. Which ran full swing for a week, then we deployed and most of us went to delve, yet still in that 30 day period they did 270b in kills. Not to mention that the desired effect was to raise tope prices to make profit, which happened, and we made loads. Sure it wasn't the sustained hit that the other interdictions were, but honestly what do you expect in the middle of a war?
And then you talk about miniluvs barge and exhumer kills in september. So? they aren't a barge ganking corp. They are a for profit corp. Barges and exhumers give very little profit. If you look at their KB though what they mainly target is freighters. On the 30th alone, they killed 2 freighters which dropped 6b between them at the cost of 17 catalysts total. That's what they do, so comparing their barge kills is a pointless as they only do that to pass time (or if they spot a juicy drop). Why would the Mittani drop a clearly profiting corporation?
Then there's: "A bored nullsec player can no longer start a recruit-a-friend 51-days free account and massacre miners for lulz". Well that's wrong. It takes no time at all to ramp a ganker up, since you don't need any support skills. You can jam them into a T1 dessie on day 1, and a small gun specialisation takes no time at all.
" A ganking fleet spends more time lolling on childish jokes than actually flying out to gank and fail half of ganks because someone didn’t have ammo, had safety on, undocked in a pod or shot the wrong target."
This I want proof of. I don't think you've had enough experience with ganking groups to make this assumption. You flew with new order, but they are a bunch of idiots to be honest. There's plenty of ganking groups out there that are successful. See miniluv for example. Solo gankers are just restricted in what they can kill. If you are in it for profit (which many gankers are), solo gankers can only kill small haulers. Not much else is very profitable.
"What I did is clearly not something that you couldn’t do. No “l33t skillz” are needed to gank miners."
Then this confuses me. You say this, yet you point at other corps and say "look how much I beat them!" (paraphrasing). Well surely, if its super easy (which it is) then they could easily have done the same. This leads me to believe that their KB stats aren't comparatively lower because they are terrible, but because the CHOOSE NOT TO GANK MINERS. There's no profit in it and the tears get boring after a couple of days, so most of us don't bother.
"Because you are held back by the incompetent fools around you. The funds of your organization goes to handouts to the morons and slackers and in doctrines you have to limit yourself to the lowest common denominator (the bombless bomber)."
You still think this is the case don't you? I tell you what, I'll accepts your comments on this when you successfully take several regions of sov. Bombless bombers are an absolute genius concoction of the meta. They are cheap, easy to fly, easy to get in an out, and can't be blocked by a cyno jammer. They are also amazing to watch in a fleet of 255. Good luck jumping a fleet of dreads in to do the job the bombers do without PL or BL dropping a fleet of supers on them for the fun of it.
"It doesn’t matter what you aim for, the best approach is starting on your own."
OK, gank freighters solo. Or orcas. Or take a region of sov solo. Not everything is best done on your own. There are limits to what you can accomplish, and sometimes you just need raw numbers, regardless of skill. A tackler needs barely any SP, barely any player skill (fly at target screaming and clicking your ward scrambler) and yet is one of the most important parts of PvP for example. Oftentimes I've heard a fleet calling out for more tackle, and its a role literally anyone can do, it's easier than ganking. This is where having other people helps.
And I know, I know I should be blogging :p I might have to do a writeup on the bombless bomber.
Miniluv isn't about what they say it's about. It's just a content provided for the bored massess of CFC when there's nothing else to do - Panem et circenses, in other words.
In this case there was something to do, namely nullsec regions to structuregrind. It's still hilarious to watch how spectacularly the whole "interdiction" failed.
@Lucas: I promised giggles to Sugar, not you.
A T1 dessie won't kill even a naked retriever in 0.5 alone.
There are big tasks you need others. However the spoils will be distributed among them too. Taking something on your own, even if smaller (like a C1 wormhole) can give you more rewards than having a slice of a region.
"There are big tasks you need others. However the spoils will be distributed among them too. Taking something on your own, even if smaller (like a C1 wormhole) can give you more rewards than having a slice of a region."
I disagree. I held a WH solo once. It took a lot of time and a lot of logistics. Sure it gave me a fairly decent reward, but it required so much more time. Being in the CFC requires considerably less of my time and is nearly as rewarding. My spare time I can now spend running my high sec trade, which is pretty rewarding too. Add the two together and I am considerably better off in a large group than I was solo.
By the way, you still didn't explain what the point you were trying to get across in this post was. What are you aiming to say? What Am I supposed to take away with me from the post?
Or is that what is coming tomorrow?
Whoops, missed one
"A T1 dessie won't kill even a naked retriever in 0.5 alone." Perhaps not, but a covetor, hulk or a rat damaged barge it will. But the point you were saying is that a goon cant make a new account and go ganking. Sure he can, just hes unlikely to get as many on day 1. After a week or so, he should easily be able to solo gank. That's not really changed from the old days.
CODE., which is the New Order ganking alliance, is composed of much more than New Order Logistics. And as you know, the New Order of Highsec is more of a coalition. Still, its unfair to just pick out one corporation of the core New Order alliance and compare yourself to that.
CODE. had 1403 kills in September with 153.07 billion ISK destroyed. It doesn't make your achievement any less impressive to note that we are still destroying the bots and bot aspirants at the same rate we were when you were an active member of our group.
You've accomplished a lot with your new corp. You don't make yourself any more impressive by running down the Goons or us.
Bing Bangboom
Agent of the New Order of Highsec
Belligerent Undesirable
Gevlon,
Well done. Just the fact that you significantly outperformed all of the other highsec ganking corps, with loads of members, does prove that they are just full of M&S, following blindly those in charge.
Griz
@Grizilk Chanlin
"Well done. Just the fact that you significantly outperformed all of the other highsec ganking corps, with loads of members, does prove that they are just full of M&S, following blindly those in charge."
lol?
Is that really what you take away from that?
You don't think theres any possibility that perhaps they choose not to live in high sec ganking miners for 0 profit just to buff their killboard? You don't think that perhaps most of us have better things to do in this game?
KB padding gankers are not a new thing, but it means literally nothing other than Gevlon has too much time on his hands. He even states himself in this very post that it requires no skills to gank. So surely that must tell you there is probably another reason for nobody doing that? Right?
I bet you are one of these guys that seems 2 full queues in front of 3 ATMs and just assumes everyone must be too stupid to use the 3rd one then stand there bashing the screen for 10 minutes screaming "WHY NO MONEYS!?!?!"
Congratulations Gevlon. For my taste you don't need the ranting, what you do is already spicy enough. Or you want to be that low its your choice. You already post tears.
last time I checked EVE is still a sandbox. You are free to do as gamemechanics, EULA and TOS tell you.
keep up the projects!
Another point is consistency. The amount of time this must have taken you is not sustainable. I guarantee that if we come back in 6 months time, that you will not be ganking at this level anymore.
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if you are burned out by the whole thing and have moved on to something else entirely.
Interestingly enough, your numbers sound about right on how much damage a solo pilot can do compared to freight club's numbers (not including alts).
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