Saturday, January 12, 2013

Dead morons of the week

Before the random idiots, let me tell my own story about someone who has way too little brain to survive in EVE. So I was out in the belt scouting after we killed like 5 exhumers (2 kills for myself, other 3 as scout). So I happily noticed that the pair of Hulks have Permit and wanted to leave when suddenly 2 Mackinaws warped in. I scanned them to see tank. Scanned again. Scanned again. Then I wrote a not too modest yet appropriate line to the channel: "All hands on deck, get into fleet, supers log in". That last part was stolen from the PL FCs I flied with and I guess this exhumer and pod deserved it. There was another equal Mack but we couldn't kill that since we have lot of newbies still (the top 1/3 pilots did equal damage as the other 2/3 on the kill).

After that our mega-fleet killed another random AFK Mack, then we hit on a triple-hulk setup. All 3 died, the combined value is in the calculator:

Now the idiots from the killboard busy in competition for Darwin prize:
  • Wardecced jump freighter is dead jump freighter. A Goon is always wardecced.
  • Same is true for MateDot.
  • Or Nulli Secunda.
  • Or Pandemic Legion.
  • More Pandemic Legion.
  • Or RA Citizens.
  • Or Ethereal Dawn.
  • Or Solar Citizens.
  • One more Solar Citizens, this one with 11B cargo, so the only thing saved it from suicide gank is the wardec-gank.
  • Yet another Solar Citizens.
  • One more Solar Citizens.
  • I've never heard of them but they also shouldn't haul under wardec
  • Jump freighters can jump. Normal freighters can't. In nullsec if you are big and can't jump, you die
  • 6B normal hauler (not covops) in lowsec with max-cargo fit. Wonderful
  • Supercarriers can die without anyone is moron (hint: if you have no damage control, you are one). However having 8B cargo in it is just dumb. Use a JF.
  • Another hauler Nyx, this one with 10B
  • Purple ratting Nyx yay!
  • Ratting Nyx full of the fruits of a long day of farming (probably botting) without tank with a 4B pod.
  • 8B normal freighter in lowsec.
  • Capacitor Power Relay "Increases capacitor recharge rate at the expense of shield boosting. Keep that in mind when you fit an overpimped shield Moros
  • 6B ratting Machariel
  • 8B cargo in a non-cloaky Tengu
  • 5B shield Moros, and didn't even got all mids for shield. Or rigs. So rather tankless Moros. We an also talk about stacking penalty on tracking moduls. Or pointless pimping.
  • Northen Coalition. (MateDot) lost a region due to a Falcon. Compared to that, a 17B Falcon isn't that bad.
  • And the winner, the uncontested idiot of idiots, the suspect Noobship with 10 billion cargo!
So people, please, don't fly wardecced freighters and jump freighters, don't put billions into an Ibis, Falcon or normal hauler, don't haul or bot in supercarriers and you won't lose a fortune.

19 comments:

Anonymous said...

not morons
Wardecced jump freighter is dead jump freighter. A Goon is always wardecced.
And goons move dozens of in corp jump freighters every day. A few get killed.

Same is true for MateDot.
As above
Or Nulli Secunda.
As above
Or Pandemic Legion.
As above
More Pandemic Legion.
As above
Or RA Citizens.
As above
Or Ethereal Dawn.
As above
Or Solar Citizens.
As above
One more Solar Citizens, this one with 11B cargo [...]
As above. 11B in cargo is no problem. The majority of freighter and jump freighter pilots haul more than this and never get killed.
Yet another Solar Citizens.
One more Solar Citizens.

As above (x2)
I've never heard of them but they also shouldn't haul under wardec
Never heard of them either, but probably as above.
Normal freighters can't [jump]. In nullsec if you are big and can't jump, you die
Not always.
Supercarriers can die without anyone is moron (hint: if you have no damage control, you are one). However having 8B cargo in it is just dumb. Use a JF.
Moving things with caps and super caps that are not freighters is common place and has been done since they entered the game.

Given your questionable history on the subject of super capital fitting I really think that you should refrain from calling super pilots dumb.

Another hauler Nyx, this one with 10B

Purple ratting Nyx yay!
Yes, Yay...hangon what is your point exactly?

Ratting Nyx full of the fruits of a long day of farming (probably botting) without tank with a 4B pod.

Botting? what are you basing that on? Without a tank? he had 2 repping carriers with him. It took no less than 65 pilots to eliminate this fleet.

8B normal freighter in lowsec.

Can you please do me a favor and group all of your freighter kills together so that I can do "as above".. How many times has this freighter pilot run this route *without* being killed? Also 8b in a freighter isn't a problem. Not even close to being a problem.

Capacitor Power Relay "Increases capacitor recharge rate at the expense of shield boosting. Keep that in mind when you fit an overpimped shield Moros

Its not overpimped. I know of ones which are officer fit in wormholes.

This one is mostly faction with a few A-types. 5b for a moros is actually fairly middle of the road.

As for the module..whats the problem? the idea here is to survive the siege cycle with enough capacitor to run your hardeners during the cycle. Once out of siege you get repped. In capital warfare it is capacitor which is key here, NOT raw EHP. You suggesting this guy is a moron for fitting that module shows that you have no understanding of the mechanics at play.


I wish I could prove you wrong here but I can't... because your links are broken

6B ratting Machariel

8B cargo in a non-cloaky Tengu

5B shield Moros, and didn't even got all mids for shield. Or rigs. So rather tankless Moros.


also, assuming that because it is a moros and you have no idea what you are talking about it probably isn't as bad as you make it out to be. The pimping is almost certainly not pointless. Please provide a proper link so that I can prove you wrong here as well.

Most likely unlucky

Northen Coalition. (MateDot) lost a region due to a Falcon. Compared to that, a 17B Falcon isn't that bad.

A cloaky recon should be able to get away from gate, except if the rupture pilot was exceedingly quick. Other than that shipping high value cargo in any covops cloakable ship is pretty safe. You either screw up and die or you get unlucky and die. Not enough information here so it could go either way.

The only probable morons in your entire post are:

6B normal hauler [...] in lowsec with max-cargo fit.

and

And the winner, [..], the suspect Noobship with 10 billion cargo!

and

You Gevlon, for failing to understand much of what you talk about. Lets see if you have the courage to post this comment or not?

Gevlon said...

It doesn't need courage. You fit very well here for trying to excuse obvious morons. Was one of the wardecced freighters in your corp?

Links fixed

Anonymous said...

When you say "obvious" you actually mean "in my poorly informed opinion".

Because these are not "obvious" morons. They are fairly run of the mill things that happen every day to people who know what they are doing.

You provide no evidence of their moronic behavior save for a killboard link, and your personal definitions about what is moronic behavior (too much cargo, MORONS, too many pimp mods, MORONS!, solo pimp ships, MORONS!!!!) when none of them are actually morons at all.

No, none of them are in my corps, but my corps are perma wardecced. Nice attempt at yet more logical fallacies.

I'm not making excuses for morons, I'm pointing out that you are in fact a moron, for refusing to listen, learn and understand WHY these things happen and the legitimate reasons for them existing on kill boards. Stupidity may play a part in some kills but most of what you pick on is just what you cannot rationalize yourself.

Anonymous said...

To follow up with your fixed links..

the tengu: unless CCP have changed the way kill mails work, blueprints always look like more value on the killboards than they are...because hte mail itself makes no distinction in type between the copy and the original so the board assumes original. He's lost some blue prints which would be rather expensive if they were originals but are likely copies.

Moron for moving any blueprints in lowsec? perhaps.

The moros:

Same system as the last one - same fight it seems (Quantum explosion are on the other side). Hastly refit shield dread (RA potentially helping out some russian friends..I've not been in the WH intel channels for a while so I can't be certain). He's lacking a refit by the looks so the fit is a little bit strange. Hardly moronic though. The rig selection is once again to help protect cap long enough to get him out of cycle to get repped up. There are better shield fits out there for the moros but I'd hardly call this guy a complete moron. (WHs are hard, and 0.0 kinda suck at them. Chances are this is a first iteration shield moros for this guy).

I'll refrain from commenting on the ratting mach. Bit rich for my blood but most ratting ships are.

Gevlon said...

A moron is someone who makes an unnecessary mistake. Each and every one of them did something that he shouldn't be doing.

There is absolutely no need for flying a wardecced freighter or JF. EVER. There is absolutely no reason for not having an out of corp alt.

There is no reason to haul several billions worth of small things in anything but a cloaky T3. If you can afford the cargo, you can afford the ship. Of course in NPC corp.

There is no reason to haul 2B+ in a freighter. You can always take turns.

Pimping PvP ships is always stupid since it draws people on you who want to kill you.

The fact that many people do these things and get away with it doesn't make it less stupid. Just like most people who don't use their seatbelts in their car lives. It doesn't make them not idiots.

Hivemind said...

@Gevlon:

"Jump freighters can jump. Normal freighters can't. In nullsec if you are big and can't jump, you die"

If that were true, no system would ever have ihubs, stations or level 5 upgrades, since all of those are too big to be moved in anything other than a Freighter. It's also worth noting that (afaik) Freighters can use Jump Bridges, so in null they actually can jump. Nullsec itself is usually the home of solid intel and scouts, normally making moving freighters relatively safe. I don't know how the kill you have there happened, but neither do you - if could have been pilot error or it could have been something very clever from the Gorgon Empire people doing the kill, like using a spy or springing a logon trap.

"However having 8B cargo in [a supercarrier] is just dumb. Use a JF."

Explain why this is, please? Last I checked, a supercarrier had a lot more EHP than a JF and was immune to tackle except for Dictors and Hictors, which can also tackle a JF. There are a lot more people willing and able to engage and kill a JF than there are an SC, so what makes the JF a better choice for carrying valuable cargo?

"Purple ratting Nyx yay!"

Do a little research before you post these, please. That supercarrier died to an AWOX pilot who got the initial tackle - there's a CORE Alliance player way down the kill list in a Sabre, CORE and Flame Bridge are both part of the same coalition and thus have friendly standings with each other.

"Capacitor Power Relay "Increases capacitor recharge rate at the expense of shield boosting. Keep that in mind when you fit an overpimped shield Moros"

A shield booster with no cap doesn't do any boosting at all. The purpose of the CPR mods, as others have pointed out, is to allow the Moros cap to last through siege.

"5B shield Moros, and didn't even got all mids for shield. Or rigs. So rather tankless Moros. We an also talk about stacking penalty on tracking moduls. Or pointless pimping."

The purpose of this fit is pretty clearly to be active tanked, hence why it's got the shield boost amplifier and the rigs to extend cap life through the siege cycle. If it's able to run a few cycles of the cap shield booster while sieging then it doesn't need the extra buffer, which is all that shield rigs could have provided. As for stacking penalties, I believe it's only stacking above 4 mods that reaches "anything else would be a better choice" level. Bear in mind also that with the midslot TC scripted for tracking speed, he's only getting 4 module penalties on tracking, only 3 module penalties to range. As for pointless pimping, all of those modules contribute to either DPS or tank. What's pointless about them?

"Pimping PvP ships is always stupid since it draws people on you who want to kill you."

Outside of hisec, there aren't a lot of people who run around with a ship scanner looking at ships to see "Is that worth killing? Is that?". Because Null and WH space are free-fire zones, as is lowsec if setup to tank sentry guns for a reasonable time, people can and will engage any fight they think they can win. I've certainly never heard of anyone in null/wh space going out of their way to engage a target specifically because of their pimped fit. Meanwhile, said pimp fit might give you an edge; someone who engages because they can deal with a t2 fit on your ship might be caught unprepared by faction or deadspace tank or DPS mods.

Gevlon said...

@Hivemind: supercarriers get more attention and unable to dock, which is integral part of hauling.

Ratting in a super is generally considered dumb. Purple fitting detto.

The shield Moros could have put a Cap recharger to the mid slot instead of the fourth cap module for cap.

The pimp has little extra performance for lot of extra cash. A shield Moros generally is not meant to live long. It's more or less a suicide thing that hopes to kill more things before dies. No point pimping it.

MasL, the famous 20B Machariel pilot was actively hunted after he lost his fit once and everyone learned that he is a flying vending machnine. He died soon again.

Anonymous said...

"Pimping PvP ships is always stupid since it draws people on you who want to kill you."

As has been pointed out before - unless you have a well-known history of flying pimped ships people will base their response on your hull not on your fitting.

And drawing a lot of people who want to kill you may very well be the purpose of flying something shiny - people don't just sit in low-sec (outside of FW) or 0.0 waiting to be killed by you in a honorable 1v1.

The way to get fights (that are not just you ganking some PvE fitted ratter) is to draw out a (disproportionate) response and then work to split them up into manageable chunks.

A shiny target in their sights makes some people go completely stupid in their attempts to kill it. A boring & efficient looking target makes them dock up.

Hivemind said...

@Gevlon

"supercarriers get more attention and unable to dock, which is integral part of hauling."

True, but they can sit under POS shields while haulers transport goods from station to fleet hangar and vice-versa. My point remains that the supercarrier has the benefit of a lot more EHP and immunity to most forms of tackle. I don't know the circumstances behind the kill, but I think it unlikely that a JF in the same situation would have fared better than the SC. And on the flip side, I doubt the SC was killed for the 8bn ISK cargo.

"The shield Moros could have put a Cap recharger to the mid slot instead of the fourth cap module for cap."

I'm not sure, is this referring to the Moros with the Cap Power Relays? If so, with the fit he was using, he had a 17.2k DPS tank for 6 minutes, long enough to last through a siege cycle. Switching the T2 invuln field for a faction Cap Recharger would drop that tank to 14.2k DPS and only 5m30s cap life. In this case, even with the shield boost penalty his fit is superior to your suggestion.

Something you might have realised if you spent a couple of minutes in EFT like I just did before you chalked him up as a moron.

"The pimp has little extra performance for lot of extra cash."

That's not a problem if you have the cash to spend and need the performance.

"A shield Moros generally is not meant to live long. It's more or less a suicide thing that hopes to kill more things before dies. No point pimping it."

Again, you clearly need to do more research before you post these things - the shield Moros you're describing as pointlessly pimped died in a Class 6 Pulsar sleeper site, engaging in a capital escalation as evidenced by the presence of Sleeper NPCs on the killmail. As others have pointed out in previous installments, the bonuses/penalties in a C6 Pulsar make shield-tanking Moroses the best dreadnaughts to use, and they're certainly not suicide ships.

"MasL, the famous 20B Machariel pilot was actively hunted after he lost his fit once"

Yes, but that's a single example, whereas you are claiming it always draws attention. MasL stood out and gained fame not just because of the loss but also because he had huge success with that extremely pimped Machariel, killing significantly more than its own value before it died, and he was already well known in the EVE community for his solo PvP.

Anonymous said...

@Hivemind - you are of course correct in all things but it will make little difference. A few weeks back I had Gevlon agree that shield tanking moros were not moronic, yet he has reverted to thinking that they are.

Add to that the fact that he actively moderates views which contradict him or make him look like the idiot and will only post a precious handful so that he can not be seen to be foolish leads me to believe that he has absolutely no interest in learning anything as he confident that he knows it all entirely already.

I've posted several comments in this thread and none have shown - I have proven him wrong countless times and thus I must be trolling. Or something.

Kristophr said...

Concur with Hivemind on the shield Moros.

Corect PvP fit for the WH environment he was in.

He got jumped by a gang with two dreads and a bunch of smaller stuff, probably the most they could squeeze through the entrance hole before collapse.

Dscan does not always help in WH space ... you need to drop a probe and watch for new anomalies ssuddenly showing up.

Gevlon said...

@Anonymous: the shield Moroses are bad for shield Moroses as their mids are not full of shield tank modules, they lack Core defense field extenders and various nonsense.

Hivemind said...

@ Gevlon

"they lack Core defense field extenders and various nonsense."

As I have already pointed out, this fight took place in a class 6 Pulsar wormhole. That already provides a 100% bonus to shield HP. Would that bonus have provided even more if the ships had CDFE rigs? Sure. On the other hand, does that bonus alleviate a lot of the need for buffer mods/rigs and allow those slots to be devoted to active tank, cap lifetime and DPS? Rather more yes.

Hivemind said...

@Anonymous 01:43

"Add to that the fact that he actively moderates views which contradict him or make him look like the idiot and will only post a precious handful so that he can not be seen to be foolish leads"

I have been engaging Gevlon in debates (or arguments if you prefer) in his comments for quite some time now and one thing that has consistently impressed me throughout that time has been his willingness to allow opposing viewpoints in the comments, even to the extent that the comment thread ends up him vs everyone (as these Morons of the Week posts tend to become).

I'm not calling you a liar for claiming that he's censored your comments previously - obviously if he has done then I would have no way of knowing - but I will say that censoring dissenting views is definitely not his style in my experience.

Gevlon said...

Under "views contradict him censored", he probably mean "u r wrong lol"

Agent Trask said...

Yea ... Gevlon will cheerfully delete posts full of lolspeak and texting abbreviations.

If you want to chew him out and curse at him, use correct English, and be inventive instead of merely potty-mouthed.

Anonymous said...

@Gevlon
Could you provide a cloaky tengu fit?

Gevlon said...

Cloaky Tengu:

http://greedygoblin.blogspot.hu/2012/11/highsec-hauling-after-orca-fix.html

Anonymous said...

And what if one wants to haul BPOs from null sec to high and vice versa?
I understand that you should use Interdiction Nullifier
and maybe drop the extenders, because of the signature radius
But then, what would you fit?
(sorry for the newbie questions, but after reading a lot, I can't seen to find a decent fit)

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