Greedy Goblin

Wednesday, March 3, 2010

Why the naysayers are wrong?

Ganking update: as I promised, I post on the realm forum, telling the hordies about their inevitable fate.

Actually it's not proven that they are wrong, the experiment runs exactly to prove them wrong. So hereby I show my idea that will be verified (or falsified) by the experiment.

Yesterday I've announced my plan of starting an ally gank guild in order to make the hordies transfer away from EU-Maghteridon, where they currently have 10-20 more players than ally.

Got huge amount of naysayer comments, and - surprisingly - naysayer e-mails. Not troll mails, but intelligently written ones. These people would like to contribute by proving by logic that it's a waste of time.

Technically, the naysayers are right when they claim we cannot force the horde to go away. We will be a 100-200 members guild against 3-4K active hordies. We can assume that we will win PvP fights, as we will be in groups, PvP gear, PvP spec, PvP experience and we jump on them, using "unhonorable" tactics like attacking someone fighting monsters. However if a 3 man group kills a hordie every minute, that means 1/3 kills/minute/gangker, and due to the 1:20 ganker:hordie ratio, the hordie death rate will be 1/hour. I assume they die more often by stepping on their shoelace and falling to their own swords, so we are just minor annoyance to them, not a problem.

If we concentrate our effort in time (like "please be online 18:00-19:00 and gank then"), it's easy for the horde to see our pattern and use that time to do instances or log out (they can see us all the time from a lvl1 ally alt).

If we concentrate our effort in a place (like "always gank in Sholozar Basin, cutting them from the herbs"), they can just go somewhere else, then simply trade the herbs we have in abundance for ores or something like that in the common AH.

It is 100% true that we have no chance to win against the horde if they are like the commenting naysayer himself: intelligent, rational people. However the solution comes exactly from where the problem came: they are not intelligent and not at all rational. They are socials.

For a social, being ganked is not equal to die in the fire. Dying in the fire, due to a bad pull or simply by being killed by a 5 level lower single monster is "bad luck lol". They just corpserun and keep doing their nonsense. However being killed by another person has social relevance. He was "pwned". He was found weaker than his peer and his failure was observed by peers (at least by one, the ganker). He was laughed at. Some person somewhere laughs on him IRL. Someone thinks he is weak, a loser. He does not tolerate this situation.

He might choose to fight back. This case he dies and dies again. We are in a group, we are prepared for PvP, we will gank him into the ground. That will make him feel very bad. He might ask help from "friends", but since they are leeching M&S, most of them turn a blind eye on his request.

Or even worse, they get a few friends to help him, but since we are a PvP guild, dedicated to this action, we can get more reinforcements. It is officially required from all online members to travel to the other end of the world if there is a battle that the locals cannot handle. I'm sure that we will win 99% of such guild battles. This will have a devastating effect on them (despite they lost no gold and minimal time). Their group, their major source of self-esteem, was defeated. This is unacceptable for any social. Their primitive brain simply can't process the information that their ingroup, "we" can fail. A rational would say: "hey, we are a PvE guild with 10 people online, they were PvP guild with 15 online, no way we could win". But a social can't live with the thought that we are not the best. He will blame others for "failing in PvP" or "lazy to have PvP gear" or even call those who did not rush to the battle "traitors". They will start drama or simply /gquit to distance themselves from this "fail group".

Since we will act rationally, we cannot be ganked. If they could organize a larger force, we would simply retreat/log out. Remember, there is huge death penalty on everyone in the guild, encouraging them not to rush into uphill battles. So they will lose and lose, and lose, and sometimes have a draw game. They will never feel decisive victory. In WoW there cannot be decisive victory, you can't destroy an enemy, but corpsecamping-ganking feels that way.

Since there can be no victory for them, soon no hordie will rush into battle against us. Of course we are still just minor annoyance causing 1 death/hour. But the feeling of helplessness, the thought that he can be "pwned" any time by us will put a heavy burden to their ape-mind. They will evade "being pawned" by evading the outer world. If just 10% choose to stay in safe zone, it will cause 10% decrease in the influx of both farmable items and gold. Their expenses to NPCs (repair, taxi, skillup, respec) remain, and the decreased item influx increased prices, they start to run out of gold. In the same time the ganking rate increases by 10% on those who still go out making more of them to stay safe.

Of course, rationally a WoW character cannot be starved as he has no material needs. But a social has needs: he must have the new "cool" mount, pet, achievement. He must farm to finally buy his mammoth or bike. He must finish those holiday achievements that require going to ally cities. Imagine if we would guard just one Midsummer fire. Or raid Brill during Noblegarden!

With the economy collapsing and the world becoming dangerous, more and more of them will chose to leave this "fail server". Remember, for socials it's always the others fail, never them. They expect others to help them. Since there are lot more hordies than ally, the failure of the "others" is even more obvious to the social and he leaves quickly.

We will be negligable annoyance to horde players. But we will be unstoppable menace to horde socials. Again, remember twixt. He was all alone. Just like Angwe, the orc rogue. I suggest you read both links before naysaying again.


Anonymous said...

As Alliance, I don't think you can gank Horde in Brill as they are all protected from PvP combat by being in friendly territory. Unless they purposefully raise their PvP flag that is.

Kaaterina said...

"... So they will lose and lose, and lose, and sometimes have a draw game. They will never feel decisive victory. In WoW there cannot be decisive victory, you can't destroy an enemy, but corpsecamping-ganking feels that way."

The question is. Will you? You, your guild, anyone. Will you? How do you measure success? How to you say to your guild : "Ok guys, we fulfilled this goal, next goal on the list is:...."

Corpse-camping ganking is fun the first times. But after a while it gets old. You say that it feels like final victory. I beg to disagree. All it takes is picking on ONE smart person who realises he cannot win and logs off. What do you do? You do not know whether he is online or offline (without cross-faction /who eavesdropping), so your 5vs1 gank group wastes time by watching a corpse that may or may not come back. Sure you can convince yourself that you achieved 'final victory'.

Only you can't. You're smart. There will be the voice of reason in the back of your head saying: "That guy logged off and is using his time productively by having fun on an alt, while I'm stuck here doing nothing. And I can't leave because he may come back at any minute and then the 'final victory' would be his. He outplayed and outsmarted the 'smelly ganker' by making him waste his time."

Ablimoth said...

Actually, I find the thought hilarious! I might even resubscribe to try this...

Anonymous said...


Had never heard about Angwe or Twixt.

Simply amazing. Good luck with your efforts! Wish I could join you but sadly I'm on a US server.

Zingishuni, Draenei Shaman, lvl 80, Malfurion US

Azzur said...

I've no doubt that if you can get 20 ally pvp'ers who will commit to this project (I would say that it will take around 3 months) that it can be done; and that you may force some horde to take the free transfer off. However, finding these 20 committed PvPers is almost impossible.

World PvP in WoW is incredibly boring. Flying around hunting random horde is fun the first few times but it gets tiresome quickly. And this is because 20 ally hunting a lone (or a party of) horde is no challenge at all.

The 19 other PvPers don't have a chip on their shoulder (they have nothing to prove, unlike Gevlon) and will get bored quickly and stop playing.

I think that you'll find that Tobold is going to be right. Non-consensual PvP is niche because of the absence of a fair fight.

Anonymous said...

I joined the project yesterday. And I believe we can make some Hordies go crazy.

What my problem basically is, is that we need a lot of stuff for leveling. For example, some crafters that can make lvl 78 pvp kits would be awesome on a pvp realm. You still do damage, so you can keep up the leveling.

We are starving for bags. When you see goblins cheer for 8 slot bags something is wrong.

I have no alts, no gold or anything else that I have on other realms. I'll need to farm a lot of mats myself if I want to level a profession because I assume the AH is pretty empty with so few allience on the realm. There is also not so much gold to make with trading on the AH.

So I think the biggest challenge of this project is not to gank the Hordies, but to get some crafters to the max to supply the needs of a guild.

Enchants, glyphs, maybe some flasks or potions if you want to get serious into pvp. And only 14 slot bags would already be very nice to have. Think I got to used to being able to buy 4 frostweave bags everytime I wanted to.

Gevlon said...

@Kaaterina: you would indeed be right if we were such an idiots to corpsecamp anyone. We won't. After killing him, we just fly away seeking other target. If he wants revenge, he'll find us. If he doesn't even try, he'll keep on playing with bad taste in his mouth. We don't have to kill him again

@Azzur: isn't wiping on I choose you Steelbraker 82 times boring? Because I did exactly that and every time I approached with excitement and determination that this time I'll win. And on the 83 time, we did.

We are here not just ganking punks. We are proving that "alliance can't win this battlegroup" or "we are overwhelmed, can't do anything" is nonsense. Every dead hordie is a step toward proving something huge. We are facing something the naysayers claim to be impossible. It's much, much larger than some pixel boss.

Anonymous said...

Gev there is just one thing i would want out of this project of yours... access too it. Stuck on US and oceanic realms... Don't let the nay sayers get you rowled up as i'd say that most of them are who you'll be killing... if you can get even a group of 50 that are dedicated you'll push the economy through the roof as you open up areas for players to capitolize on!!!

Anonymous said...

I am the Anonymous who posted a list of attainable goals in the previous topic.

Oh my. "With the econony collapsing and the world becoming dangerous"... In 3 months from where you start, more than half of the Horde won't even know you exist.

You assume that if you will always gank between 18:00 and 19:00, the Horde will "see your pattern and use that time to do instances or log out". Bwahaha! They won't do a thing. Some will die and cry in trade, some will retaliate (and you want that, that is the best fun), but most will just not see any of you at all.

You are a theoretician. I am not. See you in three months.

Anonymous said...

And, yes, I have had *many* more angry whispers than there are in Angwe's collection. Angwe's whispers are good ones, but I am sure he would be the first to say that the amount is not huge, you can collect more playing 2 hours a day in a month.

Anonymous said...

Neat trick to find out if someone you're corpse camping is online or not. Type /invite theirnamehere. If it says "Cannot find player" then they're offline. If they're online, it will say "Target is unfriendly".


Azzur said...

It took my guild 70+ tries on Anub HM for the first kill and yes, it was incredibly exciting. That was challenge.

"We are facing something the naysayers claim to be impossible. It's much, much larger than some pixel boss."
It is only going to be larger for YOU (i.e. non-consensual PvP is niche) because only you have something to prove (naysayers).

For the others, doing the tasks needed for success is going to be far too boring. Killing a PvE boss is different because the task is not boring.

Seawolf said...

I think it is a exciting idea and am very tempted to find a EU copy of the game so I can join in. The server I'm on also has a large imbalance, but due to the overall low population world PvP is scarce.

If you are declaring war on the horde fan boys then why not make it an economic war as well? Imagine the carnage you could unleash on the inside with a banker by denying the horde of specific resources.

Also others have suggested using mind control and I'd like to second that notion. My shadow priest has caused many a horde to log on their alt and rage at me. One of my favorite spots is at the horde flight path in Felwood. You can MC them all the way into the next zone.

Search youtube for "Felwood flying lesson" to see a short vid from that spot taken during the Lunar festival. Twenty minutes later they logged on to an alt to rage, evidently they were still trying to make their way back.

Anonymous said...

I think I read about a guild with a name like "how bout those dailies" that kept at least 3 people on Isle of Quel. 24x7.

It's a good thing that your group is not deterred by the naysayers. Besides, human nature being what it is, I am sure you will all consider it a success and your victims will consider their plight not their fault. Independent of what happened. Say your experiment succeeds and the number and percentage of M&S in WoW climbs; who as won? Blizzard, I guess.

Making your ground rules public has raised the bar quite a bit. For instance, it's pretty difficult for you to attack large groups. Say your team of 4 players kills a group of 8. If half the time one of your players dies, then the action is unsustainable.

Since you are going to level these toons, then it seems that the occasional level 80 rogue could put a real dent in your statistics.

Or you raid Brill and kill 19 people, and someone logs on their 80 and comes out a one-shots on of your group. Unsustainable.

You need to re-explain your example
"However if a 3 man group kills a hordie every minute, ... the hordie death rate will be 1/hour." is just arithmetically wrong. One event per minute is 60 events per hour. What were you trying to say?

I do not play on a PvP server; how many times have these players been being killed before you arrived? I.e. going from 0.1 to 0.2 deaths per week is more noticeable than going from 4.1 to 4.2 deaths per week. Will your increase in the average Horde's death rate be noticeable?

Anonymous said...

I definitely look forward to see more on this even though I probably fall in the dreaded "social" category myself. To me joining a project like this would be worth it for the fun of the battle(s) and I couldn't care less if the opposing factor decided to bugger off or not or if they were in fact driven bankrupt. I do have a lot more fun when I get to choose the stage of battle rather than being thrown into a "fair" fight in arena or a battleground. If I have the upper hand I engage, if I stand a good chance to lose I run away.

I'd like to suggest an alternative realm: Al'akir.

The faction imbalance is as vast. Judging from the number of items up for sale on the auction house and what is written on the forums the horde population is bigger - giving you more candidates for griefing.
WG is _always_ held by Horde and last, but not least, as far as I can see the battlegroup is a lot bigger meaning it'll not be such a slow and painful process getting pvp-gear for the underdog-guild.

Kiwin said...

I was online this morning on Magtheridon at around 10AM. There was 43 alliance players online. None in IF, none in SW and none in Dalaran. I've never been the only one around in a major city at those hours, it was scary.

Dominus said...

Very interesting project. WoW pvp has allways turned me off (coming from a more balanced pvp game, Guild Wars), but this has me intrigued.

Alas I am but a noob at wow pvp and starved for game-time already with MW2 and final fantasy coming next week.

Jb said...

I did play a horde on Mag EU so I wish you gl with the experiment. Its gonna be a really hard ride to suxcess. You will have the element of surprise though. Hordes will never expect it. The few times I got ganked with my litle warlock the poor ally player got gangraped soon after and prolly had to log.

Bernard said...

I'll be moving over a toon this weekend.

Let's see if we can keep the momentum up - lots of discussion in the WoW blogosphere to keep people enroling.

Bindu said...

I think this is actually a good idea, but the success might be the opposite of what you intend.

Myself, I play on a PvE Realm, because I do hate PvP, but I do hear from friends that Open world PvP is dead on PvP Servers as well.

Obviously the intended system of “Horde vs. Alliance” is not working as intended, because the players do not hate each other. Why should they? They even occasionally do help each other, and I don’t mean the big threats like Arthas. It’s the little things like some lvl 80 Horde helping a levelling Alli in distress. I don’t know if it’s a social thing or pure boredom or whatever. Now money, that might be a reason to compete against each other again.

I would not be surprised to actually see people joining the server again, because there is some open world PvP going on. Well, that might be the opposite thing from what you intended, but imo that’s just the thing that could happen.

Matt said...

@seawolf: It's not cheap, but if you have the money you can buy a digital edition of WoW Classic from the European Blizzard store and start playing immediately. (It works I just did it.)

EU Store

Talderas said...


You tear me inside. On one hand I am a hard core hordie, so I don't want to see the alliance succeed at anything. On the other hand, I friggin hate socials.

I'll be honest, a lot of people are idiots when it comes to world PvP. I run around the world as a prot specced paladin for three reasons.

1. I can kill more things at once than as ret.
2. It provides a discouragement to most players to gank me.
3. I still kick many player's asses in world PvP.

To describe in detail.
1. The only reason I'm typically out in the wilds instead of instances or raids is to perform dailies or mine. When mining, spec doesn't matter. When doing dailies being able to kill more stuff at once means I can tag mobs before other players without having to assess whether I can take it. That means I kill faster overall.

2. Prot paladins should be, in theory, the one tanking class you rabidly avoid. I personally have 42k hp unbuffed. That means to kill me you have to go through at least 52k hp ignoring any of the extra healing I get from Judgement of light/seal of light. If I decide to use lay on hands, you'll face 94k hp + incidental healing. I am not exaggerating when I say I can keep 5 alliance busy trying to kill me for a good 45-60s. In fact it's a tactic I frequently utilize in AB. I run to a base none of the other horde are running to, if there's only 2 alliance, I ignore it. If there's 4 alliance I charge head in. I know I'm going to die, but the point isn't to defeat them. The point is to occupy their attention. The alliance let themselves get put 5vs1 prot paladin, leaving the rest of the BG to be 14H-10A. It's also no joke that there have been successful PvP arena teams that utilized prot paladins in the team.

3. The fact that I can kick the butts of other DPS spec players in PvP while I'm pure raid tanking spec I believe is further insult to injury for socials.

So Gevlon, in conclusion, I think if you're going to gank the Horde you should have everyone play as geared prot paladins. Maybe a few healers tossed in there.

Fenryr said...

I've posted my thoughts on why Gevlon will succeed in at least reviving the server on my blog;
Yes, this is shameless self promotion, but I'm a new blogger, one must start somewhere.

Fenryr - The "Special Shaman"

Jan said...

prot paladins are one big blizz joke... i fking hate them, i dont know how, but when in 2v2 (i play as discipline with affli) retri pala cant kill me... whereas prot pala has somehow bigger damage and kind of more control, so he can kill me, even by himself... also: as affli doesn't have much nuke, we usually win "by mana" (opposite healer runs out of mana sooner than i) and the freaking protection healer NEVER runs out of mana!

Ratshag said...

In two posts you have yet to give a single objective definition of "success", nor have you given any sort of time frame. If you are going to alter the Alliance:Horde ratio, what is your target? And how quickly will you do it? Assuming there is shift in the ratio, how are you going to demonstrate that it was your actions that caused the shift, and not simply fanboys following Ensidia, or socials taking advantage of the free transfers to go play with their friends, or bored PvPers looking for a server with more Alliance? The Undergeared project has a definite goal (kill Arthas) and an implied timeframe (before Cataclysm). So far however this is just vague hand-waving.

Greenhell said...

Are there any diciples of Gevlon that are considering making a serious attempt at this on a US server?

Tantow said...

Think the real fanboys would have already followed Ensidia some time after they left. Since the free transfer is to (a) specific server(s) it would be pure coincidence that this happens to be the server of all the 'socials' friends. And hardcore PvP-ers looking for world PvP on a server with hardly an opposing faction, should also have migrated long time ago.

Only remaining ones: people who are tired of the laggy server and/or those being 'encouraged' to leave by being ganked repeatedly and deprived of resources.

The ratio is already changing (slightly) by the people starting new chars on alliance side.

Greenhell said...

Are there any readers of this blog that are considering making a serious attempt at this on a US server? Gevlon if you havent already done it could you post some guild guidelines for your project? Thanks.

Anti said...

Gevlon : ecconomic warfare might be a great idea. build a bankroll horde side using your usual methods.

use it to buy items for export that are in short supply alliance side. jack the prices up horde side and supply alliance side after transfering it through the neutral AH.

i did this in limited amounts on another imbalanced realm. Thaurisan. i leveled my alliance mage from 60-80 and wanted maxed out tailoring and enchanting. alliance AH was very short of supplies and i had the luxury of a second account so i could trade to myself through the booty bay AH.

i did things like buy all the arcane dust horde side, relist them at 200% price, sold 50%, recouped my expenses, then xfered the other 50% to my alliance enchanter for skilling up.

Strutt@Kil'Jaedon said...

And who is to say that there isn’t already a Horde PvP Ganking guild already with say 400 players in it? All in the top notch Arena gear, flying around looking for "noob" allie pvp guilds to crush?

On Kil'Jaedon, horde side they had a strong PvP guild -MinuteMen- they seemed to do just this.

I highly doubt that you will make anyone transfer just by ganking, there are too many ways to get away or retaliate (rez sickness/log off/call guildies) But wish you luck.

Ratshag said...

@Tantow: "The ratio is already changing (slightly) by the people starting new chars on alliance side."

If your definition of success can be met by simply creating toons on the server, then I would call that a very weak definition.

Omgadnowai said...

I wish, and seriously so, that I was on European servers.

I'd roll yet a third Rogue and perhaps try to, yet again, roll against the odds and succeed.

WTB European account.


Okrane S. said...

Not only it's a vague-hand waving, it fundamentally doesn't have a point.

Ever since the undergeared project Gevlon 'feels' he has something to prove: in light of the blog, because of the socials or something to the socials.

Sadly there is nothing to prove.

Nothing to prove about raiding, about the socials (gevlon hasnt even pinpointed one single social so far - only talks about them, never a screenshot saying this is social), or about the game in any way.

Simply because in front of a sample of largely heterogenous player-base majoritarily populated with people of low intelligence and morals, you can say and prove whatever you damn want and you cant be easily contradicted.

Why would we wanna prove anything about the socials we despise? Why would we care about them?

Secondly, what Gevlon is doing actually is appeal to the burn-out hardcore players who read his blog (if you read greedy-goblin you are hardcore, period) in order to create blog-content for him. In the form of Undeargeared or Gankers project. We are at the end of the expansion, most are already burned out so why not appeal and revive our desire to play by twisting the game and changing the rules a little. That will revive it. Just like his low-level-solo-instance project.

Thirdly such a project cannot succeed but at the same time you cannot prove it can't succeed either. Its a self perpetuating goal.

Of course some will be excited because of their burnout and start leveling characters. Some might even get to level 80 and start ganking. If it brings you enjoyment, by all means do it.

The naysayers aren't wrong. They aren't wright either. They are measuring your impact differently as they are all looking for different goals inside this game.
When looking at pvp some see ganking, some see arena, some see battlegrounds, some see going against the odds and suceeding.

To me, PVP success is when the victory screen in BGs or Arena apeares or when my opponent is dead. In this experiment of yours your enemy is the whole horde side which you can never kill or shut down and your victory screen is their insults and cries against you.

I don't know this kinda seems like looking for social status to me...

Eaten by a Grue said...

I submit the story of Fansy the Bard. Very much relevant to this cause.

Anonymous said...

I come from Mal'Ganis (US Horde) where the Alliance are severely outnumbered.

There was one guy who made a name for himself, he was a nigh elf druid who was very successful at ganking horde.

The reason night elf druids are so effective is because they can shadowmeld-flightform and instantly get away.

He had three main tactics besides standard 1v1 ganking. The first was to simply get you while you were AFK at a summoning stone or some local place. He took advantage of neutral guards (such as those near the Ulduar stone) by baiting you into attacking him and then letting the guards kill you. Lastly he would use typhoon near cliffs to knock people off to their deaths.

All in all he was quite effective and a good majority of Horde on our server remember him. And he was just one guy.

Anonymous said...

This reminds me of the Thanksgiving crap that happened on my server. the chairs at the tables were, for whatever reason, able to be killed... and so Horde killed all the chairs at the tables in Ironforge. For some reason, the chairs wouldn't respawn... so we lost days before Blizz finally fixed them. It was amusing and annoying at the same time.

Tonus said...

I think it will be interesting to see if you can find a sizable group of people willing to put up with the ganking and make it to 80. The more entertaining stories may be in studying the drop-out rate (how many quit by level 20, or 30, or 40, etc).

I played on a PVP server for a couple of years because my friends were playing there. I was not (and still am not) good at PVP, and did not enjoy ganking others, so my experience was generally one-sided. I did not complain though, because it was my decision to play there. I simply found areas and quests that minimized the amount of players I might run across. Overall it was not a bad experience (I was never camped, for instance) and I even enjoyed PVP now and then.

What irked me most was to see that the same friends who were so gung-ho about playing on a PVP server were the ones who complained the most whenever they got ganked. Oh, it was the end of the world for them, they would get genuinely angry (enraged, even) when PVP didn't work the way they seem to have expected it to (ie, where they were the ones doing the griefing, not the ones being griefed). Here I was, the non-PVPer quietly dealing with ganking, and I had to hear my "rough and tough" guildmates cry about being ganked. Sigh.

That was probably the part that bothered me most. I think that there are a lot of people who watch PVP videos and imagine themselves in the ganker's role, having fun at the expense of others. When the shoe is on the other foot, they are angry and disappointed that the script has been changed. I suspect that a lot of people who think that this will be a great idea will not last very long once the dying starts.

The Gnome of Zurich said...

I think it's worth answering Greenhell partially, since I'm the one who steppped up and started a US side for Undergeared.

While, I can't speak for anyone else, I don't plan to lead a US version of this. US undergeared is not as far along as EU, and I'm pretty sure I have less time to devote to the game than Gevlon. I'm also a mediocre PvPer, much better than your average M&S, but worthless against real players.

Even though I am on a PvP server, I always roll pure PvE specs and rarely bother to get any PvP gear beyond the easy/cheap starter pieces to replace particularly brittle bits of my normal PvE gear. My intentional PvP has all been in battlegrounds with a few arenas back in TBC.

That said, something like this would be fun as hell, and if there's a US version, I'll roll a character for it, though I can't promise quick leveling or that I'll do all that well.

Cinnamon said...

Even if your theory is correct and the M&S don't do anything to stop your "purging" of the realm..

I can't help but wonder if there are any horde goblins on that same server, who get a good chunk of their income from the same M&S you want to chase away, who read this and know what your intentions are and know they will lose a lot of business if you succeed..

I just wonder if goblins would try to stop you in order to save their business..

Anonymous said...

Oh wow.. I was just thinking about what Bindu said and I realized.

"What if to get into ICC you had to hold some PvP objective?" But that would only be cool if ICC was actually a big deal, and not just more free loot.

Imagine, your guild bands together and after an hour of tireless fighting, you have secured the Wrath Gate and you start your epic siege on Icecrown Citadel.

Instead of "LFM ICC 10m, GS > 5k"
"Ok lets go get some free loot"

Imagine how epic the AQ event was, now compare it to the ICC opening. There was no "ICC War Effort" It was just "Hey look, gates down, lets go get free loot."

Also on an unrelated note, lol my capchta word was "pantiman"

Rob said...

There are basically 2 things that hold me back from transferring a mule-DK there..

Magtheridon's population is currently rated as - I'm playing on a realm and there's barely anyone around outside the major cities. So, is there actually anything to do/gank? Are Alliance cities being raided all the time or are we just gonna walk around in small groups finding some gathering Hordie whos not the slightest challenge anyway every 15minutes or so ..

Next thing I worry about is that this whole project might be rather short-lived judging by the difficulty and interest/patience of people - Should I transfer I'd bring a lot of stuff with me and I don't want to lose it simply because disbanded just after 2 weeks..

Comments appreciated.

Bristal said...

It's definitely a fun idea but I have to agree with many of the caveats as to the likelihood in fulfilling your goals.

However, you may also be giving the socials exactly what they want: drama.

This project could not only NOT chase the Hordie socials away, more could transfer in for the gank 'n whine fest. Not to fight of course, but to chat and QQ about it.

Matt said...

@Ratshag: Yes, it's pretty weak to say that Gevlon is succeeded people people are rolling low-level alliance characters after reading his blog.

However, one sufficient (but not necessary) easily measured criteria for success is the following. If you log onto EU-Magtheridon in a couple of months, and /who around alliance side and you see that there are alliance playing the server who aren't in the "inglorious gankers" guild, then Gevlon succeeded.

One of the stated goals of this project is to revive alliance-side EU-Magtheridon. Today there is virtually no one playing alliance-side EU-Magtheridon and the alliance-side economy is completely non-functional (which makes it very painful to, for example, level raiding professions on a character).

If "ordinary" players start playing again on EU-Magtheridon, it's because Gevlon's guild created a functional economy, and created enough disincentive for Horde M&S to run around leveling zones ganking alliance that alliance socials can "play the game".

Anonymous said...

have you thought of how many hordes might transfer in to kick you're lame ass??

Strabo said...

I dont read much, but I have heard you mention, "Goblins have no emotions". Yet, this seems to be full of emotion? Is a goblin only a goblin in commerce?

Anti said...

my suggestion for people looking to join in on this would be to roll a DK gatherer.

for bags make the DK a tailor / enchanter. run loads of lowbie instances for quick cloth for skillups and bags for the guild. can even power level other guildies while gathering the cloth in instances.

for leather / ore / herbs make a dual gathering DK.