Greedy Goblin

Friday, January 1, 2010

Morons of the week

Another holiday, another extra morons of the week. However this weekend is the last when there are so many morons of the week. From next week, there will be only one "morons" post, on Saturday, with the best 6 moron. On Sundays there will be a new fun column!

This forum topic belongs here on its own as it's definitely written by a moron. But the real funny is one of the commenters signature: "Support bacteria! They are the only culture some people have."

I received 45 e-mails with people buying arrows/bullets or complaining about "being scammed". Please don't send these, everyone already doing it and can see the same on his own screen! Also don't send "dumb engineer undercuts 100 stack with 1000". You may still send "dumb monopolist buys up 10*100 for 10*8G to relist it for 1*15" or really good moron complains. If he simply writes "u shit fuk u scamed me" is boring!

Ingenious move from Anti. If people buy 100 arrows for the price of 1000, why not selling them single herbs for the price of a stack?

The lamest M&S letter. Ever. I hope David shown it to a GM too:

Metalladin of Emerald Dream US is lucky as Doti was nice enough to educate him and the whole audience of /trade about the proper way of undercutting:

Topaz,Genjuros-EU seems to be on a quest to beat the record of "highest profit on selling easily available vendor stuff". And as bonus, he sold it all to the same genius!

Kaaterina-Twilight's Hammer found a pretty strange moron. He seems to get the idea of selling ice cold milk. But he got it all wrong. Why?
- Listing milk: 1 sec
- Returning mail: 1 sec
- Waiting after a page: 30 secs/50 = 0.6 sec.
Alltogether: 2.6 secs. The vendor price is 20c, so the profit is 20c/2.6 secs = 2.77 G/hour. Even if he list and receives semi-AFK spending only 0.5 sec/milk, he has 14.4G/hour. As Kaaterina adequately put, "one can get more gold by killing kobolds in Elwynn Forest for Linen Cloth"

Forthewin of Spinebreake-EU can still sell the new vendor pets. I can't imagine how can anyone be so stupid to fall for this trick:

The moron who buys his own arrows to fix the price is an evergreen (by Lepeck):

If the healer have more HP than the tank, that's a problem. If he also does't have shield and has int/spi head, that's a moron. If the DPS has less AP than the tank, that's another one. If someone like Reszka of Azuremyst EU meet both in a HC, that's bad luck, but great fun for the readers of this column.


Carson 63000 said...

Seems to me that the guy selling milk for 40 copper probably wasn't trying to make a profit, but rather to throw a spanner in the works of people who were trying to profit off the morons.

Gasp said...

The guy selling milk so low probably just wanted to disable people who were selling to idiots. Unfortunately, someone like Marko from jmtc probably bought it all out and re-listed for higher,

Rebecca Herman said...

Yes, I am shocked by selling the overpriced vendor pets still working. I listed two to see what happened. Both sold for 80g. So 40g profit on each. I feel kind of bad though. Should I? It's not my fault they are dumb... heh.

Anonymous said...

Yesterday in a run of dead mines with my level 18 druid I was confronted by an angry hunter for stealing all his gear, because apparently agility and critical strike rating are not stats for a feral druid, since everyone knows all druids need intellect and spirit.
I forgot to screen shot it, but it is nice to know night elf hunters are still the go-to first character race/class combo.


Anonymous said...

Forget hit points, what the hell was that warrior doing, trying to tank as arms with mostly dps gear. And why dualwhielding, why? he's arms, fer crist's sakes! with 2-handed weapon specialization!

As for the hunter, good god, between the spec choices (not choosing to play BM - a smart player can pull it off and do very well with it, but rather his distribution of talents) defense cape, strength axe and spell power pieces, low attack power is the least of his problems.


Ben Kennedy said...

Generally, the purpose of deep undercutting by 5g instead of 1c is not so your stuff will simply "sell faster". This is silly, anyone with a decent AH business can certainly wait an hour or a day for something to sell. If you are pricing below market to "sell faster", you are just giving gold away. The true reason to deep undercut is to force competitors to compete on manufacturing efficiency by dropping the potential profit for the item to where they can't make gold at a rate reasonable to them.

So what the "M&S" says is in fact correct, and saying "it will sell faster" is foolish. Undercutting a 80g gem by 5g is stupid - if you gem sold at 75g, then it also would have sold at 79g, and you threw 4g away. Undercutting a 80g to 5g over the cost of the raw gem (say 45g if you can obtain the raw gem for 40g on average) is smart, if you can make it up in volume.

Figworth said...

Oh, I am totally using 'that ilegaal. U are banned!'.

Anonymous said...

@Ben Kennedy

I agree the main reason to deep undercut is to drive competitors away by reducing the profit they can make, but for items with high auction deposits like gems, I really do think you need to undercut by more than 1c just so they sell quicker. On my server at least, undercutting by 1c just does not work at all. They get undercut so often I'm lucky if I sell one and I lose gold through deposits. Whereas if I undercut by 10 or 20g off the market price then I know they will sell and I do make a profit.

Tonus said...

I agree that the guy selling milk for very low prices is probably trying to be chivalrous and kill the market. Although I guess he's not chivalrous enough to pass up a minor profit along the way, heh.

And I can see where a person would want to undercut by a few gold to improve their chances of a sale. If you undercut by 1c or 1s, you risk being undercut by the same amount, and after a while there are enough auctions just below yours to slow your sales and require relisting. Better to force the would be undercutters to stop and wonder if it's worth their time.

Anonymous said...

i would sell milk for 40 silver, because what i enjoy is to trick morons it sweeter than making money imho.

huntard FTW, and the tank aint much better although i can beat that had a fury warrior tanking once not a single def item not the spec he one concession was a shield, but at least he held aggro il give him that and had me to drop 5k into him every second or so.
as for undercutting undercutting by more than some silver is bad unless you want to drive up sales because you have a large volume or are capable of competing through crushing the others margins but baring that large undercuting is stupid .
oh and if you want to ruin margins or drive up sales through lower prices you need to drop it by 5-10 gold at least.
oh and is it just me that buy the more expensive one if someone undercuts by a copper ?
the monopolist rules btw awesome

Glenn said...

@Ben Kennedy

Price elasticity would disagree with you. It's not so much that you "sell faster" it's that you sell more at the lower price.

Quick example: I've gotten several upgrades from triumph/frost badges since the patch, so I've had to re-gem gear. My main gem I buy is bold cardinals, which often go for 300g or much more on my server, which I refuse to pay. At all. I buy bold scarlets instead if the price isn't good on cardinals. My demand for bold cardinals at price >300g is 0.

This morning there were 3 listed for 235g each. I bought all three. The person who had undercut by 1g would have lost my sale. I would not have bought a gem for 299g any more than I would have at 300g (I have also ignored gems listed for ~270g). Which means that person's profit was zero (with respect to me). The other guy who deep undercut sold all his gems, for 705 gross profit.

Obviously, each buyer's elasticity of demand for any given product for any range of prices is different, but that doesn't change the concept at work: you will sell more at lower prices. Your profit per sale will be less. Waahhhhh. Your total gold will be higher, unless you undercut below cost.

Gevlon understands this concept well, which is why his glyph business is so profitable.

Arnock said...

@ the guy selling single icethorn for the same as a stack, I wish icethorn sold for 11g per stack on my server =/

Anonymous said...

I think it's pretty funny that you assumed that the guy selling milk for cheap was trying to make money, and then spent the time to analyze his gold/hr. He was much more likely just trying to be nice to people who don't know any better (or who just want to get it from the AH while they are buying eggs) by putting a bunch up for cheap. It's funny the idea of someone being nice just doesn't even occur to you. Feel free to start the "being nice = stupid" now.

Rebecca Herman said...

I guess it depends on the market on your server. By pricing my gems at the price I want to sell them and listing them at the times they sell well - I far more than make up for the AH deposit on the few I don't manage to sell, at a far greater profit than if I just sold all of them for a far cheaper price. I guess you gotta do what works with you but I'd say about 90% of my gems sell at the price I listed them at.

Gevlon said...

If the milk guy just "want to be nice" with idiots he doesn't even know, he is no less a moron than if he would do it for profit.

Zerone said...

Hi all, this would be the milk seller 'moron'.

As this is a blog of getting every last penny out of the AH I'm not that surprised that ppl haven't got the concept of a 'NPI' yet. Although a bit surprising that Gevlon which should have some market experience haven't understood the concept of it yet. (assuming from his latest comment)
There is several reasons for a None Profit Item (did I swear in church now?), some are part off a intricate tactic either to rise or lower the market over time, while some are just for fucking with others or being nice.

In this case this would categorize as combination of 'fucking with others' and 'being nice' and what Kaaterina forgets to inform you all of is that he was one off those trying to sell the milk for 2g each before I just 12h into the christmas event decided that it was an dishonorable way of making such a profit. I mean common, at least craft/disenchant/buyout something, don't run 50 yards and expect a 1,9g profit from an unlimited supply.
Also on a side note, Kaaterina is also pissed because I've eaten quite a bit into his profit cake the last half year while I've expanded my AH trades, getting large at AH gets you lots of new happy friends, I promise you all! (No I don't do anonymous bankalt trading)

Speaking of morons, you guys would not believe the amount of retards who actually tried to buy it out and resell it while I was online and at the AH. The more I went 'lol' in whisper the faster they tried to buy it all out, until finally realizing 500milks later that the milk is a unlimited supply item 50y from the AH sold to them at 2x vendor price, that always took the edge out of em. ^^
Also the amount of milk I posted is because I've learned that if anything ppl are lazy, especially ppl trying to cash in on milk and spices, having 200+ up and the likelihood of someone even trying to buy you out decreased by several times, so that would also explain the amounts.

While I'm probably a small fish in a big sea I am one of the server's most influential AH traders. It's all self learned (is this blog really needed?) and I do take pride in not doing questionable trades like the milk trying to make a buck out of every little thing, it's just so cheap and bellow my dignity, it's not like there isn't enough ways of making a healthy profit out there.

Your 'moron' of the week, Zerone @ Twilight's Hammer EU

PS. Don't I get any award? Maybe a badge? How about a title in game, 'the AH moron'? Pretty please Galvon! DS.

Kaaterina said...

Kaaterina here. Whoa. So I'm pissed for not selling milk? Right-o.

'One of the most influential traders'. Uh-uh. I don't care if you were Bill gates himself, if you're doing work for 14 gold/hour you're an idiot. If you're trying to annoy your competition (that wouldn't have noticed you BTW, if it weren't so blatantly stupid), you're doing work for zero profit. You can't annoy 'competition'. You can always annoy a certain competitor, but there's more of them than you can ever handle.

The buyers of your milk are NOT idiots for the simple fact that most of them need ONE milk (which they should get at 40c instead of a stack of 5 for 100c=1s. The 4 extra are wasted, if they were to buy from a vendor.) Mine were idiots for buying it overpriced. Congratulations then. You just single-handedly turned all AH milk-buying morons into smart people without education!

Next up. You vastly overestimate your importance when it comes to 'eating from my profit cake'. Fact is, you're 'just another guy'. Your wares are not 'more special' or 'more dangerous' to me than the next guy's.

Oh and this one is pure win.

"Speaking of morons, you guys would not believe the amount of retards who actually tried to buy it out and resell it while I was online and at the AH. The more I went 'lol' in whisper the faster they tried to buy it all out, until finally realizing 500milks later that the milk is a unlimited supply item 50y from the AH sold to them at 2x vendor price, that always took the edge out of em."

Strangely enough, I remember a CERTAIN 'influential self-made AH trader' who was all to happy to buyout my nigh-on-inexhaustible supply of Large Prismatic Shards, to relist them at a higher price. He gave up after a while. I wonder what happened to him? Did you call him a moron too and set him straight? OH WAIT, that was you. Never mind then!

I don't know what bee crawled under your bonnet to declare a vendetta against me, but that's stupid and unprofitable.

Do you play the Ah for money, or to appoint yourself self-righteous defender of the usurped according to some subjective moral compass?

Zerone said...

Quote Kaaterina;
'Bla bla whine whine buhu buhu whine whine.'
...until the part of; 'Strangely enough, I remember a CERTAIN 'influential self-made AH trader' who was all to happy to buyout my nigh-on-inexhaustible supply of Large Prismatic Shards'

Yes I do remember that guy, it was the guy who made a FORTUNE and propelling his AH success realizing that the ench market was way under priced and that there were a lot of money to be made if only someone with determination and time would buy it all up. I heard that guy made approximately 4 times the invested money in just mere 3 weeks, but then again, what would you know, you just tried to sell your shards ASAP.

And no I have absolutely no vendetta against you, in fact I can't recall me ever whispering you or making blatant comments about you in trade channel, the other way around is another story.
The 200 milk I sent you by mail AFTER -this- is ofc not counted, that was purely for the lulz.

I'm always keeping an eye on over-average users of the AH and I can gladly inform you that your assets is, how shall I put it, so minor that you pose absolutely no competition, my interest in you does not go further than smiling at your attempts to bash me from time to time. This however is hilarious, you spending more time calculating my avg. earned per hour for milk than it took me to run, buy and post it.

As for the end of you post, let me quote myself from my other comment; 'I mean common, at least craft/disenchant/buyout something, don't run 50 yards and expect a 1,9g profit from an unlimited supply.'

THIS people shows one purpose of NPIs, it really is great fun when less talented AH users go crazy mad because you wrecked 100g of their profit. Well worth more than the few gold, while maintaining some level or morality. Win win. =)

Kaaterina said...

Lying and ego trips, oh my!

Careful that you don't pop from all that hot air!

Anonymous said...

@ Zerone
your resarch on the enchanting monopoly seems to be thorough - a guy i heard about - not exactly the most relaible imho.
unless you actualy managed to turn a profit on the prismatic shards greater than hers she wins that one, side note when did this happen ? because if you thougth cornering the enchanting market sometime last month im voting moron of the week again to you.
and calculating a Gold/hour ratio is something i do in less than a minute so that is hardly a valid charge to levy.
but to end it on a more even note odds are you are both minor players and Have unhealthy sized egos.
Besides where do you draw the line ? is it not the same thing for me to buy 12g/s saronite and sell 20 gold titanium, im exploiting their ignorance in the same way.
is that wrong ?

Anti said...

"@ the guy selling single icethorn for the same as a stack, I wish icethorn sold for 11g per stack on my server =/"

Gevlon actually left out a key part of my post.

I posted single herbs for two reasons.

1 - to sell to morons - tick
2 - to get morons to undercut my singles with their full stacks - tick

regular icethorn price is 18-22g
i was hoping to start an under cutting war by morons undercutting my single stacks.

i had only limited success.

Zerone said...

Quote Kaaterina; 'Lying and ego trips, oh my!

Please prove me wrong and expose me if you are able to.


I was playing on the words Kaaterina used to describe me, somehow he/she/it managed to compare people thinking they could buy out my milk, which is a unlimited supply item, with me making a move on the ench market this spring which generated the base wealth that I later used to gain the position I have today.

I can't recall exact mats and at which point they turned into profit since I basically moved in on all the mats in game, spreading the risks etc. What is a fact is that 3 weeks later I had gained 4 times the amount I first invested and thus I continued doing so for a couple of weeks, playing the market in different ways learning and adapting. I still do trade with ench mats but to a smaller extent having more markets to tend to nowadays. I have some remaining stocks from back then and some is newly generated stocks from disenchanting, either way I'm assessing my profit to be somewhere around 400-500% and rising, particularly nowadays when ench mats have risen quite rapidly following an increase in ench levelers and a shortage in stock. So I'm still cashing in on what I covered almost a year ago.

While I could time the run and buy for getting milks I can assure you it takes less than 30sec and thus my point is valid, he/she/it spent more time on calculating and mailing this blogg about it than it took for me to post it. Hilarious!

My ego is in proportion to my knowledge and assets tbh, I do however (and did in the first comment here) acknowledge that I'm probably a small fish in a big ocean, but as far as my server and faction goes I have only seen one other player who have earned more, a major gem seller and early cutter since way back, before I went into that market. Nowadays I don't see much of him and I assess that I will pass him in the coming quarter. Other than the gem guy I don't even know of anyone having earned half of what I have and Kaaterina comes in, if I recall correctly, at somewhere around 1/4th of my earnings.

I never expected to have this much fun when I posted those milks, tbh I could have paid a couple of hundred gold for all this if I had known. Cheers! ^^

Kaaterina said...

Zerone, you're amusing.]

"And no I have absolutely no vendetta against you, in fact I can't recall me ever whispering you or making blatant comments about you in trade channel, the other way around is another story."


Nice strawman however; implying that I have done that, defeating it with a non-sequitur, failing to provide proof, and shifting the burden of proof away from yourself.

A+ trolling. Too bad I'm not stupid. Stuffing 4 informal fallacies in one phrase does not make it believable.

Zerone said...

Well, looking at my VanasKoS hate list you are clearly marked as 'Whining AH user'. Considering the manual input of that description I rule out it being an mistake and thus I'll have to call you the liar in this case.

Taking a screen every time someone makes a blatant comment or whisper is gonna fill my screenshot dir. with too much uninteresting stuff, but I will make an exception for you here forth.

Enjoy my milk!

Anonymous said...

Selling the Milk for that low isn't so dumb. Maybe he was crashing the market? In a few days maybe he was the only seller? I started selling milk in stacks of 5 for 1 copper each...for a loss. Next day I was the only one selling and put it back up to 1.5g each. It worked.

Kaaterina said...

Translation: "I don't like you therefore I put you on my blacklist. Because I put you on my blacklist whatever I claim about you is right, therefore you're a liar and I'm not."

Outstanding deductive reasoning, Holmes. A scientific beacon of applied argumentative discourse. I humbly bow before you.

Zerone said...

Don't flatter yourself kaaterina, I have no emotions towards you at all, except maybe one of entertaining enjoyment. My hate-list is LONG and there every little failure or blatant action is recorded, stuff that might be use full in a future situation, like this.

Since you are into the detective style (have you been watching too much S.Holmes trailers lately?) let's review the evidence now;

1. You spent all this time just to look like you have no clue. I mean common, not even able to identify or understand the concept of a NIP to start with.

2. You pose no competition or affect my business in any way, thus the extent of our relation is no more than the entertaining comments here.

3. You seam think this is some sort of articulate competition. It merely makes it look like you're grasping after every last straw so you don't have to lose your face.

4. Thanks for the ench mats you claim to have sold me once, you are part of my success. <3


Anonymous said...

@ Zerone
i wasn't asking if you made money cornering the enchanting market i asked if you made money from the shards specifically, odds are you didnt.
if you still have stock left thats bad, the fact that you add to your stock with DE is neither here nor there, and final odd market you have in my opinion all enchmats have fallen in price across the board since patch 3,3.
as to why still having stock is bad thats why.
apart from the several fallacies, points to kaaterina for pointing them out,
you do know that the "im a smallfish statement" was followed directly by a im the second biggest player on my server and i have crushed the other guy and is passing him in a couple of months are directly contradictory ?
how exactly do you estimate that you have four times more gold then her ?
if following your time line you wiped out the other guy sometime in the summer it would seem to take you half a year or three quarters of a year to pass him, that doesn't look like good returns.
just as a mental exercise we say he has 200 000 gold and you will be beating him sometime in the spring you have made 200 000 over a year (less but im rounding here so it wont matter) thats nothing spectacular, not bad far from it but not spectacular.
following the time-line you should have around 150 000 gold now which means kaaterinas quarter is around 40 000 - im willing to bet she has more and you have less of a clue about your opposition that you imagine
besides im fairly certain twilight hammer has seen a gold capped char and you do know you went from one of the most influential to the biggest apart from one guy that you now have crushed in the span of three posts and what i guess is what two three days ?
"While I'm probably a small fish in a big sea I am one of the server's most influential AH traders." later
"I have only seen one other player who have earned more, a major gem seller and early cutter since way back, before I went into that market"
so unless you are some kind of heavily influential but with seriously poor returns trader those two statements dont seem to match. in the first you are one of many in the second you are the unchallenged master of the azeroth
oh and PS you ran and got milk several times she did the math once.

Kaaterina said...

Let's take it point by point shall we?

1. You had fun, right? Well, I have news for you. 'Fun' is not a quantifiable resource. You can't trade 'fun', you can't count 'fun' and you can't take 'fun' to the bank. This blog is about business, not having 'fun'. You want to have 'fun', or brag about having 'fun', or 'being nice' or 'pissing other people off', General Forums -----> that way. Go and tell them how much 'fun' you've had. I promise you, they care.

Did you earn money from that milk scheme? Did your NPI facilitate profit in other areas? No?

Then, from a strict business perspective you're a moron.

2. Non-sequitur. You're still a moron as per point 1., regardless of the fact that I may or may not be a competitor to you.

3. Non-sequitur. You're still a moron, regardless of whether or not I make a fool of myself by replying to your informal fallacies.

4. Non-sequitur + Strawman argument. You're still a moron for running milk regardless of whether you made money off enchanting mats. You're still a moron for trying to monopolize the LPS market and failing at it. You're a moron for calling people morons for trying to monopolize the milk market, while you, yourself, engaged in the same type of activity. (Ie. Monopoly over a limitless supply item.) Don't you get a headache from that cognitive dissonance?

Zerone said...

@ anonymous
Wall of text crits me for 20 000 damage and I still don't really know what you are asking for, looks like you're just being doubtful in general so let's see if I can cover it all.

200 000g? gold cap? That was ages ago, while I do not discuss exact amounts or stocks due to competition knowing that could possible be a disadvantage, we're not speaking that small. Let's just say that I have reached the negative number bug, reverted back to 0 and back up again more than once, have a fully tabbed guild bank seemingly always filled (sigh, more slots plzthx blizz) with investments or unprocessed mats and have for periods of time had over 15% of all auctions up on the AH, that should give you a general concept of the extent of my trades.

While looking at statistics of someone isn't any exact comparison tool, avg. gold earned per day is still a somewhat usable comparison tool after peoples numbers start looping. Profits do differ from person to person and markets, but considering I'm into quite profitable markets like gems and scrolls (with others) I'm pretty sure Kaaterina haven't been able to pull of a 4 times higher return of investment and are most probably around my level or lower.

About ench market, it is rising on TH, you should know that global trends ain't the same as local trends since wow have highly isolated markets with little flow from and to servers. That I have stock remaining is not as bad as you point it out to be, as it's all covered already and I bought most of the stuff for 10-50% of what I'm getting in return, in fact the reason I'm still having stocks is because I'm patient and rather wait than just throw it all up undercutting everyone. Since I'm constantly filling up my stocks with DE it's also impossible to know if I sold all of my initial stock already or not, besides making allot of money in wow req. you to be so broad that you will sometimes hit jackpot straight away while other times you find yourself committed to a particular market for a longer time, patience is one of the things that differs those making good profit and those losing money.

As far as my bigger fish statement goes I though it was clear I meant in comparison to the rest of the world, as I assume this blogg is read by more people than those who play at TH.

Yes you are right, I had to run 3 times because morons tried to buy me out, after I posted 250+ milk or so I never had to run again, perhaps if you count when they expired, but I'm often running back and forth with expired stuff so it's not like it was any extra turn just for those few stacks. I still think he/she/it writing here, attaching the screen and doing the math took more active time than I spent.
Besides, does it matter, it's still a NPI because I felt the lazy gold diggers had to work a bit more and I don't like people cashing in on temporary seasonal markets, I still wasn't there for profits.


Zerone said...

@ Kaaterina
Yes, this must be a blogg of 'lol look, that guy isn't cashing in on 7g/day of profits', it would explain why I never sat my foot here before people started telling me about this hilarious envious guy who was trying to bash me.

My point is proven imho, now you're just in a 'not lose my face' loop.

We're done, you're an amateur in my book and we'll probably never see much of each other again, hope for your next milk scheme not to be spoiled by someone.

Zerone said...

@ Kaaterina
I forgot! I was about to ask you if writing here was for 'fun' or for profit?

Did you earn money from this blogg addition? Did your addition facilitate profit in other areas? No?

Profit is everyting, amirit?

Kaaterina said...

Actually, it did.

I've had a person offer me discount on raw gems and ore just to see you 'crash and burn'. Apparently, I'm not the only one who you stomped on with your ethics and morals babble and ego-flaunting.

While I find his motives questionable at best,(lowering their profit for no obvious purpose - which I pointed to him, might I add - Good suppliers are hard to come by), I'm not going to turn down bigger profit margins.

Remember, every time I undercut you on the AH, I capitalize on this here investment.

Also, your point was not proven, since you didn't have one in the first place. All I can see are fallacious arguments.

Anonymous said...


you have reached the gold cap GZ i did it back when it was still hard
and i do apologize for assuming you were the kind of guy who would mention it ASAP.

i got that you had a hard time estimating it to 400-500% as that is a pretty broad statement.
but once again you didn't disscuss the specifics of the shards and my point remains, they are pretty useless and the they can be made from void crystals, those are even more useless.

an NPI is one that brings in side profit, cellphones are generally sold as an NPI too hook you to a service provider, that is what an NPI is nothing else. to explain further the phone is cheap but the service isn't, thus the term the item , the phone, does not generate profit but the service agreements does.
neither of these:
"some are part off a intricate tactic either to rise or lower the market over time, while some are just for fucking with others or being nice"
fit the term, being nice or screwing people doesn't have an economical term and running something at a loss but gaining consumers and crushing competition is not done with an NPI.

you are not willing to discuss what you have in your guild bank sure NP with that but you have no problem with annoying all of those people odd behavior IMHO, both divulge information.

yes i do know that wow markets are not in sync with each other, there are zero cross server trade opportunities, however they do follow the same trends since all of them are Dependant on what blizzard decides and the auto-disenchanting is a fairly big change to the market, hence my comment that you have an odd market. and almost all items are in a slow decline in value until before the next expansion and then they suffer from inflation leading to higher prices, having stock is bad even if it costs you nothing in storage.

actually if you want to argue that you are better merely being bigger dont give points, the man getting a two million return on a one million investment does better than the guy with a 100 million return on a one billion

yes i do know that to get rich in wow you need many markets when you have a low return per item, you need volume, its called mass production, although mostly associated with glyphs the basic idea is still true.
large amounts of trades gives an good return even with a low profit per item.

you know how many times the gem cutter reached the gold cap and then restarted ?
and my final point is small fish big ocean since all the servers are kind of ponds i assumed you meant on your server, because as yourself put it "While I'm probably a small fish in a big sea I am one of the server's most influential AH traders." its in one sentence, the obvious way to interpret that sentence is that you meant your server in specifics.

yes im quite disbelieving in general and i hope this is less of a wall of text, but yours are not much better.

Zerone said...

@ Anon

'you have reached the gold cap...'
Please inform us at what point you think reaching the gold cap went from hard to easy, if I interpreted you correctly.

'i got that you had a hard time...'
Regarding large prismatic shards it's no problem at all to generate profit over time. If I'm not mistaken I currently have a stock of around 200 and I renewed it a few months back when I was running low, thus I'm confident that I have managed to return all investment and made a healthy profit on the Large Prismatic Shards as I have never gone under the threshold price for any of my ench mats so far. The threshold in this case being maximum BO price paid at push + a 10% profit addition, times 1.05264 to counter the AH cut. Assuming I bought all at max BO price set for the shards I have still made a minimum profit of 10% of all sold from the initial push. How many of the shards I acquired back then that I've sold is hard to estimate (again) but I did restock with around 150 in august when I considered the void market to be way slower and less profitable than the Prismatic, add to that those you get from DE:ing from time to time and I'd say I'm not far off count with my current stock. As late as yesterday I sold about 15 of them for the quite profitable price of around 7g. (can't check exact values as severs are down)

'an NPI is one that brings in side profit...'
While I'm sure you found that description of a NPI in the fanciest of marketing books and just didn't make it up, it's irrelevant as I have clearly explained what I consider a NPI to be, you might wanna call it something else but the motives I had are quite clear and it wasn't to make a profit, thus non profit item is a perfectly fine description in this case and for any other item put up on the AH without the purpose to make a profit, you may suggest a better term if you have any.

'you are not willing to discuss...'
Yes, and sometimes you have to pay to enjoy something like a cinema or a nice dinner, you simply have to ask yourself if you find the consequence worth it in context to what you are getting out of it. I do not find showing my assets like an open book to be worth anything.

'yes i do know that wow markets...'
I disagree, in my view and looking at the trend at my server for the last year, most older ench mats have been rising due to a constantly diminishing supply, throw in a sudden rise in ench levlers and you have a very healthy market generating profits up towards (and sometimes past) 1000% on some items. The only case where your statement would hold true is current ench mats, but that is a market I've never tried to corner at all, I'm using other methods to draw profit from at that market.
Having a stock is not bad at all, the profit margins are very good if time and local market knowledge is applied, as I still claim, prices have been constantly rising.

'actually if you want to argue...'
I disagree again as I think you have to put it in context. While the first man makes a higher profit, in hard cold cash the 2nd man made 99 million more than the first even though his profit were much smaller. It's simply two different ways of making profit depending on initial conditions and while I do lean towards the 2nd style Kaaterina is in no markets that has always been generating 1000%+ in profit, and even if he would have it would not be sufficient. (assuming from his earned per day and that I remember it correctly)

Continued bellow...

Zerone said...

'yes i do know that to get rich in wow...'
We're agreeing, that's a first. ^^

'you know how many times the gem cutter...'
As you know by now I'm not going to openly divulge detailed information like that and I'm a bit puzzled about the latter part of the question, you do not restart at gold cap, it merely goes negative in statistics and then returns to 0, you should know this, who goes to the physical gold cap on a single char anyhow?
The for me only known serious competition does have around 50% higher earned per day than me, but his has been declining and mine is still rising about 5% a week.

And you were in such case just assuming what I meant, it was in no way obvious especially considering the latter part of my statement. You do understand it now however.

PS. You are the one disbelieving and asking questions, if you are after smaller compromised answers you'll have to ask more specific and disbelieve less in general.
Besides, I've had you flagged as a troll, kaaterina himself or someone symptomatic like a guild friend since the beginning, in such case your only intention is to get walls of text and thus it's win-win. Perhaps it's time for you to start showing some credibility yourself besides your lose claims, that is if you don't want to have people disbelieving you instead.

Cool story bro.

Kaaterina said...

What? What's wrong? You don't believe my lies?

Awww, and here I thought we were such good friends.

I'll make you a deal though! You believe my lies, and I believe yours, ok?

No? Pity.

Kaaterina said...


Zerone, I do believe you're sockpupeteering Anonymous and pretending to 'defeat' him, and by extension, pretend that you refuted me.

Such a classic strawman set-up. Tsk, tsk.