Greedy Goblin

Sunday, January 31, 2010

Mean guys of the week.

I'm not getting enough pictures for this topic, so to encourage you let me put a screenshot here from heroic CoS, where the tank and all DPS are from the blue geared guild. This is what someone should do in blues (the Recount shows the dragon mount boss):
So if some punk would say "poor guy has no gear", just link him the picture above. And send him here!


This little story has it all: not defcapped tank, who even suck as DPS, and someone defending him with civilized language (by Grindando):


Robert sent me this great specimen of the tree folk:


Repaxan-Winterhoof US saw something that none of us wants to see in recount: 550 DPS. Of course 0/71/0. So no wonder someone called him out:


That's it for today, and if you want more, remember what our spiritual guide, Sara said: "Yes, yes, show them no mercy! Give no pause to your attacks!"

36 comments:

Anonymous said...

Sorry to shatter the image, but in the picture of "non defcapped" tank people are idiots as well, they repeat the wrong "uncrittable" 545 number while it's 535 for heroics, and even lower if you have the 30 stam + resilience shoulder enchant.

Oh, btw just did BRD on my holy priest alt and 2 top dps were over 500, if people can do this at level 55 in BRD how come the Warrior did that at 80...

spinksville said...

Is it any wonder people don't want to tank when you get people in the group like in that second screenshot?

Poor guy didn't even have the confidence to argue his case, can you imagine if every group had been like that for him?

Anonymous said...

http://vnboards.ign.com/world_of_warcraft_general_board/b19789/112480246/p1

"The typical character that reaches level 80 is going to do less than 1k dps no matter the class, specialization or skill. I went through 3 alts doing that and they all started around 800 dps, even with some crafted level 200 equipment. For the record, once a character gets all the level 200 equipment he'll be around 2k dps."

I cried a little inside. Or maybe I threw up a little in my mouth. I'm not sure.

Lupius said...

First comment is not true. Resilience has no effect on pve encounters.

daf said...

Out of curiosity i did some unscientific testing as a lvl80 Orc Arms Warrior against a lvl80 test dummy.

By auto-attacking the dummy with no buffs or skill use in my regular gear (average ilvl246) i was able to do 1k dps.

Still my gear is not blues so i removed all gear and equipped an old
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34891 with executioner, doing the regular arms "rotation i managed to do about 550dps.


So I'd say as far as warriors go, depending on gear 500dps people are auto-attacking and then afking or playing completely naked with the exception of weapons.

I remember leveling to 80 doing on average 1500-1800dps on instance runs with welfare badge/arena gear so 1500dps seems like a very low bar even for pour players considering everyone's is considerably overgeared these days, shame some prefer to stay in denial instead of listening to sound advice, I've long given up in trying to educate them. Not worth my time.

Gevlon said...

Resilience doesn't decrease PvE damage, but decrease critted chance.

Anonymous said...

DPS numbers allow players to see who is the leech and who is the supplier. At level 58 on my shaman, I was doing 500+ dps in BRD and in Ramps (which takes much more hit to get up there). At level 75 on my hunter(no epics of ANY kind), I am doing 1200-1400DPS in instances. My equivalent DPS for a level 80 is about 630-720DPS (deduct 12% compounded DPS per level difference).

I'm sorry, but I have seen alterations that seem slight (switching one glyph for another, readjusting a talent tree, hitting one button before another, etc), turn a fresh level 80 doing 900DPS as a shadow priest into a 1600+DPS shadow priest...no alterations in gear(mostly blue from instances and quests), no huge money pickups or raid pickups...just changing the underlying problem of ignorance of their class.

And while some may defend those idiots in dungeons saying 'you are ruining their play and experience by telling them that they are bad', whatever happened to someone ruining my experience by being a DPS warrior wearing +SP plate...or a Shaman enchanted and gem'd with +Spirit?

-out

Carson 63000 said...

Lupius, equip enough resilience gear to reduce crit chance by 5%, then go a let a mob beat on you for a while, and tell us how many times he crits you.

Dmitry said...

A person who considers himself a competent tank, let alone a paladin, should know that there is no such thing as a cap on Defense.

Anonymous said...

The tank def cap screen is from me , I play as grindando. I k ow what the def cap is myself and yes the other player said it was too high. Unfortunatlh I forgot to screenshot the part where he persists to say he is def capped even though we fight some more mobs and he is getting wiped out every mob almost . The thing that angered me most was the fact he lied Twice to us first he said about being capped. Then about not dpsing on rimefang. Why do it why not just accept we were right and listen to what we had to say that would help him next time he did the encounters

Kaaterina said...

@Spinksville.


When I leveled up in TBC and wanted to tank, I was messed up beyond belief.

Wiped the group on the first robot guard in HC Mechanar.

I was told that I was a shit tank, that my abilities and gear were FUBAR and that I shouldn't be near a heroic with a 10 foot pole. They didn't even tell me what I did wrong.

Know what I did? I went to the OFFICIAL WoW forums and read the stickies. First thing, got a proper spec, secondly, got rid of all my sucky leveling items and bought some "...of the champion" greens (that were better), third, practiced a basic rotation (which back in the days was Holy Shield>Consecration>Judgement>Reseal-none of that fancy sealweaving), fourth, WENT AND DID NORMALS.

All started with people telling me that I'm bad.

Being bad is ok when it's your first character. What is NOT ok, is insisting in being bad, and blaming it on undergear.

Ulatekso said...

You missed out on that resto druid's equally awesome moonkin offspec. He somehow decided that Eclipse wasn't worth speccing into :|

Anonymous said...

Defense cap is 535 for heroics, 540 for raids.

Gibbiex said...

I'm not honestly sure dps in heroics means alot. I want to see the guys in blues do 4k dps on a raid boss like patchwerk (it may or may not happen, i bet you could probably do it with the right buffs and so forth). I've been running heroics out the ass and one thing I note that Gevlon also notes is that guys that do quick burst damage get a ton of dps. My warlock for example does just terrible dps in heroics, even bosses are not that great. My hunter which is just a bit better geared does way more dps, like 50% more. Now maybe I dont know how to play the lock on a heroic zerg, that's probably true, but still, some classes are just going to do bad. Locks are one. On the other hand, there is no reason a DK or a paly is not the top dps on a heroic. Although frankly, it's fun to see the guys doing 500 dps, I maintain that it really doesn't matter. You can 3 man it. You can preach all you want about being carried, but the facts are you only need one competent dps, and a competent tank and healer. That's it.

ingmars said...

these mean guys/ morons of the week are making me want to go back and play WoW for teh lulz. the last character is probably worst character ever, i mean, 0/71/0 + only 2 mayor and 1 minor glyph and ehh... yeah no skill either, 500dps, wow thats low...

Jeff said...

I still have not heard of resolution on the Recount bug. It is my understanding that recount does not accurately track cross server damage.

I play a tank who sits at the soft cap for defense and I am often told "the more defense the better" by DPS players. What they don't notice is that my dodge is north of 50% and my parry is over 30% giving me ridiculous avoidance that could not be compensated for with if I converted every single dodge and parry rating point to defense. I am also told that I should have more health (5man buffed I sit around 37k) so my damage is a little spikier but I go long stretches with no damage at all. people are dumb. If they were smart enough to play tanks they would. Getting 2k dps in heroics is easy, even I can do it.

Anonymous said...

http://www.mmo-champion.com/class-death-knight/funny-guy-in-random-dungeon/

doesn't link to your blog, but still a very interesting post. Not sure if this would be mean guys or morons. There is a lot of fail in that dk.

The Gnome of Zurich said...

I've never said blue geared players "should" do 1500 dps. 1500 is what you should be able to do when you hit 80 with whatever you are wearing (probably not all or even mostly blues) and without spending a lot of time optimizing your spec and rotation, merely knowing the basics of how to spec and play.

I would expect a good player to do 3k+ in blues with no difficulty. But I don't consider it my god-given right to run random dungeons and only play with good players. Average players are fine if we're not doing anything difficult.

Anonymous said...

After seeing the SS's of the dk tank: He's playing on one of the latest added EU realms. In that battlegroup I think most realms are tagged for "New Players" or has been recently.

I rerolled there to get a new start, but soon dropped that thought as 90% of all players on the new realm had no idea about anything.

I have no idea how you can be bothered to do random heroics in that battlegroup :P

Anonymous said...

Gevlon, can you show us a picture of damage done/dps for a whole instance run with your blue toon group?

4k dps on a boss that dies in 40 seconds is nice but when i say "fresh 80 toon should do 1600 dps at least" i mean over the whole instance.

Tietäjä said...

In vanilla wow, doing more than 500dps was the goal in BWL. Reaching it was impossible to some (dps) classes before AQ gear. NO ONE could obtain 500 dps before raiding gear.

Nowdays, after TBC and later WotLK, talent trees have changed so that dealing high dps in some pre-endlevel levels is possible. This however depends largely on spec and class. For example if you're doing a HC with an affliction lock and there are one or more high dps people in the group, the lock's dots won't have time to tick in trash for proper damage. Bossfights are different and those are the ones that count anyway. If the trash dies in mere seconds, who cares? And before suggesting different specs for the afflilock in my example you should note that affli is the right choise for highest sustained dps at early level 80s. You need to gear up before changing to other specs.

Take retribution paladin for example. With green/blue gear a retsipally is able to do high burst damage which will make them exceed 4k dps in trash. Dealing sustained dps makes their damage drop like a cow's tail.

Anonymous said...

You are playing fully enchanted characters that the majority of their gear is from heroics. How is this supposed to set standards for people coming into heroics with weaker gear and enchants? Especially when your gear doesn't have that large of a margin with the few iLevel 200 epics that are an upgrade for you within the original heroics?

Yes there are a lot of stupidly low numbers in heroics, but saying that your numbers are what a blue geared guy going into heroics should be outputting is far from being a good baseline since it's a catch 22.

I'm interested in seeing the DPS numbers of other classes in your guild in heroic fights for a change.

Olga said...

Fight is too short to be a good dps measure. If you check logs of boss tries in ICC, you can see 15k dps on failed attempts, but only 10k on successed. Burst damage means not so much, as it was already said here. It would be better proof to post recount for 5 minutes on dummy with same or close number.

Weapon X said...

Recount is the cause of so many stupid arguments. Stupid, because it's like arguing about drops of water running down a window - and insisting one drop is faster.

I've got a mostly iLvl 245 Lock, some 226 and some 254.

On a COS run I'm lucky to "beat" the hunter in blues/iLvl 200 on trash. By the time I cast, the trash is dead. Bosses - I can just about reach 3k before they die.

Now, in ICC on stinky - I can hit 13K dps. Bosses is 6-7 K DPS

So - bad player? Class "broken" ? No - just a fail on recount. Use recount for what it's worth - measuring POTENTIAL DPS, but don't wave it about like it's pages from the bible.

Locks are apparently getting buffed next patch. Will my skill have increased if I can do 7-8K dps after Wednesday?

Anonymous said...

Rofl my alt warrior as a tank at 72 lvl pulls 700-800 dps in normal instances (good dpsers at 72 around 1400) so the +3k dps is pretty normal for 80 lvl newbies.

Anonymous said...

what a bunch of clueless tools.

the def cap for heroics is 535. at 532 defense the chance for a crit is incredibly tiny and if the tank has more then say 25k hp the healer should easily be able to compensate for a 0.1% chance of getting a 10k crit on a boss or a 5k crit on trash (one of my shaman's healing waves is about 10k non-crit and 15k crit and i still have a few blues).

i tanked BWL and AQ40 without being def-capped because the cap was really high back then in 2006 and no way you could reach it in t1/t2 gear.
but nowadays every tool has an opinion about tanking without the knowledge to back it up.

Anonymous said...

Why do people who are clueless decide to post here? Resilience has no effect on PvE? You can tank heroics in full PvP gear actually. Resilience affects crit chance against you. As long as you reach 5.4% you are uncrittable.

It can be done by getting 535 defense rating, or a couple hundred resilience, or a mix of the two.

coldbear said...

I approve of this.

Wiggin said...

I think I have on that takes the cake. I called out to my guild for anyone interested in running a random H. Got a couple people interested. As the tank, they know I will get them an insta queue.

One of the DPS asks to invite their friend (random rogue). I do so on the good faith that our guildie is bringing a friend along for a quick Heroic clear.

I made a quick inspect of the rogue, mostly iLVL 200-213 epics, a few blues, both weapons non-PVP epics, so fair gear really, certainly fine for HTOC.

Throughout the instance, the rogue never eclipses 350 dps. I asked at the end of the run, because we were going to run another. "Whats up with the low dps (random rogue)?"

Their response "my interface is all messed up, hold on, let me fix it."

After their interfaced was "fixed," we ran halls of lightening and they sustainted a nice 800 dps...

We didnt have any problems clearing the content, but I can see where people get frustrated.

Also ran part of a Naxx 10, with guildies. I was the nub warrior in PVP dps gear (I usually tank, this was my old season 6 gear), but managed number 3 or 4 on two different bosses...pulling only 2.5k dps...and this wasn't an alt run, everyone was 4.6k or higher GS...the rogue on top with +4k DPS whispered "I am dissapointed with some people here." I agreed.

Anonymous said...

The Recount from the guys in blue gear looks like they had heroism/lust up. Granted, you can do a good bit of DPS in bad gear, but given that the spammed numbers in guild chat are much lower, and they have a shaman healer, I'm guessing that's a little bit of an unfair number to justify as "the norm."

Anonymous said...

The recount posted at the top, are all the dps blue geared?

Don't have time to check you all out on armory, but considering the fact that it's 2 mages (presumably arcane) and a hunter, then the collective cooldown use for nukage will result in a very quick fight, and an unrealistic dps. This won't be an accurate representation of sustained dps. Not to mention that the healer seems to be a shaman, therefore heroism/bloodlust.

If you can perform the same dps with affliction warlocks / shadow priests / unholy dks in blue gear on mal'ganis then I'll be impressed, since they don't have powerful cooldown nukage like the classes you've used.

Anonymous said...

Hey grindando, it might be good to stop saying def "cap" since there is no such thing. There is a def "min" but no cap.

Basher said...

i support this website.. people need to know how to fking play their class.

Anonymous said...

I must admit that I never look at recount in heroics until after the instance is over. Then most of the time I dont anyway.
It appears to me that most of you are just looking for a fight with other players. Yes I have had the 1200 dps Hunters or DKs but only notice after the event

Heroics with a half decent tank and half decent healer and 1 good dps (Me) are over so fast I hardly notice what anyone else is doing. I take my badges and go.

The only drama tends to be from overgeared people moaning about a new tank who only has 25k health unbuffed in case it slows up the faceroll by 20 seconds.

tytalus said...

Perhaps another valid response to running a heroic and finding a kid in the booster seat: votekick them and finish the instance as-is.

I ran into something like this yesterday where a fail-DK DCed shortly before the final boss in a heroic. We just finished one short.

Anonymous said...

Resil DOES work in pve as it is crit reduction. L2 internet. The honor shoulder chant make your raid def cap 536 and heroics 531. And then to the dork saying about hitting 80 doing 1k dps then 2k in ilvl200 gear , the problem is you not gear.