I still read some EVE related posts, despite I haven't played that game for almost a year (and won't be back before complete "ethics reform" within CCP or sale of company/title). I do so for the awful lot social events go around.
This gem was found on the Imperium News (they finally admitted what they are). The super-capital ganking group Rekkingcrew was baited by Snuff Box and ganked hard, losing 325B ISK. Happened before, will happen again. The interesting thing is in the title. The interviewed rekkingcrew leader said "A character in our fleet, working with us fucked us over. Its an awox no matter how you try and polish it… Rekkingcrew is not a single corp/alliance so it isn’t relevant what corp the character was in. He was in our fleet, so for that op, he’s one of us." Then he went on how they never awox. And then Snuff representative weaseled about neutral characters and called the awox claim illegitimate.
This is nonsense even within the social framework. Socials are built around moral: "We are the good people and we help each other because that's the right thing". They often fight "evil" (other groups with different morals) or "selfish" (people who care for themselves instead of morals), but they don't initiate violence for no moral reasons. This is the foundation of their trust: Adam knows that Betty won't hurt him unless he goes selfish or immoral.
These guys are pirates in game. Both sides. They attacked for no other reason than to get a kill. They didn't care who they attacked. They were neutrals to each other and to the bait pilot. Then they went on and preached about morals and "one of us". This won't work. Wolves who only pack for loot backstab each other for loot. There is no honor among thieves, because thievery is not honorable. Trying to shame further awoxers won't help. I'm sure the "immoral" baiter is posting tear mails somewhere.
The only way withing the social framework to prevent such betrayals is to create an ideology what members can adhere and believe in. Some credo that one can be loyal to. Because no one will be loyal to a group that isn't even a group (no shared corp/alliance membership).
The alternative is to go on trusting no one, downsizing to insured dreads that no one bothers to bait.
This gem was found on the Imperium News (they finally admitted what they are). The super-capital ganking group Rekkingcrew was baited by Snuff Box and ganked hard, losing 325B ISK. Happened before, will happen again. The interesting thing is in the title. The interviewed rekkingcrew leader said "A character in our fleet, working with us fucked us over. Its an awox no matter how you try and polish it… Rekkingcrew is not a single corp/alliance so it isn’t relevant what corp the character was in. He was in our fleet, so for that op, he’s one of us." Then he went on how they never awox. And then Snuff representative weaseled about neutral characters and called the awox claim illegitimate.
This is nonsense even within the social framework. Socials are built around moral: "We are the good people and we help each other because that's the right thing". They often fight "evil" (other groups with different morals) or "selfish" (people who care for themselves instead of morals), but they don't initiate violence for no moral reasons. This is the foundation of their trust: Adam knows that Betty won't hurt him unless he goes selfish or immoral.
These guys are pirates in game. Both sides. They attacked for no other reason than to get a kill. They didn't care who they attacked. They were neutrals to each other and to the bait pilot. Then they went on and preached about morals and "one of us". This won't work. Wolves who only pack for loot backstab each other for loot. There is no honor among thieves, because thievery is not honorable. Trying to shame further awoxers won't help. I'm sure the "immoral" baiter is posting tear mails somewhere.
The only way withing the social framework to prevent such betrayals is to create an ideology what members can adhere and believe in. Some credo that one can be loyal to. Because no one will be loyal to a group that isn't even a group (no shared corp/alliance membership).
The alternative is to go on trusting no one, downsizing to insured dreads that no one bothers to bait.
2 comments:
wow, you really missed the mark. Social's are not good/bad people who see themselves as good people. In my time in eve I have destroyed things simply cause they were there and we wanted them to not be. It wasn't a us v them, it wasn't a good (perceived)vs bad (perceived), it was like any social gathering "well what now?" "oh lets crush this or that for the simple reason we can". Now lets expand that beyond the game and look at social organizations. No on in any mafia (Italian, jewish, Russian, you name it) who operates outside the rules has any illusion about who they are. The military, the police few have any illusions about being the good guy or the bad guy. You join a social org you accept the facts or you don't join. When I served it wasn't about being the good guy, it was about duty and responsibility. I had no hate for the enemy it was my job to stop them and killing was the best way to make sure they were stopped. When I was in basic my targets wore funny helmets and were painted red or had a red star on them, there was no illusion about being right or good it was about my way of life being preferred by me over their definition of life. I am sure they felt the same.
Good and evil have nothing to do with socials at any level at any time. Truth there is very little difference in population cross sections based on economic positions. Cops commit as many crimes as a percentage as those of same economic standing.
good and evil just don't exist at the social level, what does exist is the choice of belonging and willing to "fight" for the social identity. Do you think hells angels who sell crank think they are the good guys? no they think they are the exceptions to good and evil they are the 1% the outlaws (that they are about as tame as any gang is almost comical).
eve subreddit yesterday so around an alpha account tomorrow? :)
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