Greedy Goblin

Tuesday, June 7, 2016

r/blackdesertonline/ vs r/eve

As I'm playing now BDO, I started reading r/blackdesertonline/. It's very different from r/eve: there are no memes, no "ur gay pwnd" and absolutely no politics and politically motivated up/downvoting. It's informative, civilized and almost sterile. Like I'd read some internal forum of a real world community. r/eve on the other hand is ... r/eve. We all remember Sion's meltdown over its unique culture.

It's a mystery to me. Both pages are written by "redditors" and "gamers", yet they are world apart. I can think of three reasons, but maybe I'm wrong and wish to hear your input:
  1. Moderators: maybe the BDO mods are less tolerant about pointless crap and remove "fofofo" class "contributions" to the forum. Another version of the same: the automoderator is set aggressive and downvoted posts (mostly crap) is hidden fast enough before it spawns flames.
  2. The playerbase is more mature. While EVE players are full of themselves and believe to be the top of gaming, actually many of them are "orbit/F1" skilled, SRP leeching lolkids whose posting contribution is at similar level. Other group of players - while skilled - are flat out assholes who play EVE only for the easy tears and their posting is made in similar manner: to annoy people.
  3. Lack of reason to hate: since the Guild vs Guild feature is not yet implemented, there can be no grudges between groups. The other poster is just another player of the game the first poster loves.
I know it's not much of a post and I failed to provide anything useful, this is the rare case when I saw something interesting but couldn't solve it myself. So please help me.

PS: I hate the enchanting RNG. Using failstacks of my farming Axion Shield, I tried to make some duo accessories. I managed to lose 6!!! Pri+normal Ridell earrings, a pri+normal Rhutum Elite belt with nothing but more failstacks. With my Pri Red Coral ring, I wanted to be sure, so I elevated failstacks to the limit: 35. Or at least tried, because instead of the 35th stack, I got my +15 Axion. Probably would have lost the ring anyway. So - unless I accidently get 35 stacks somehow by doing something I can't see now, I won't enchant for duo.

PS2: After this, I removed my contribution point from the upgraded Elric Shrine. I'll be damned if I ever grind again. I will quest in Valencia, so slowly will gain XP. But if I never be 55, I can live with that. I cannot live with seeing one more Elric in my life:

Grinding Elrics from lvl 51.5 (from normal play) to 52: 2 hours
Gringing Elrics from lvl 52 to 53: 5 hours
Grinding Elrics from lvl 53 to 54: 7 hours
Going to Red Battlefield, sneak by the wall near the enemy blob, Rage Absorption, Guard, Righteous Charge into the middle of it and casting Divine Power Ultimate on the head of 2 wizzards, a ranger and 2 others and pushing the score by 300: worth every Elric.


Manserk said...

It's the culture, on eve people are allowed to "shit" on other without consequences (Backstab/Scam/Gank/Awox) and sometimes more seriously without much consequences (Dox/DDos/IRL threats/Griefs), even devs are doing it.

I don't think there is anything like that in BDO

Provi Miner said...

numbers pure and simple and gang mentality. Those two combine to create a very disturbing environment. X post crap Y trys and top X. There is a lot of good stuff on eve/r and I do enjoy the laughs from time to time while skipping over the crap.

Smokeman said...

"I know it's not much of a post and I failed to provide anything useful, this is the rare case when I saw something interesting but couldn't solve it myself. So please help me."

Give it time. BDO is too new for the assholes to wreck every communication channel about it yet.

I'm sure you're familiar with this, but I'll reference John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory:

These people don't flip overnight, it takes time for otherwise normal people to get addicted to a thing and then flip to being total assholes about it.

I predict that in a year? BDO will make Eve look like a Carebear paradise.

Rob Thompson said...

Hi Gevlon, I admit to following r/eve, but not in isolation. Also out there for me are TMC, CZ and EVE News 24.

r/eve is frequently cringe-worthy and resembles nothing more than a bunch of adolescent males trying to outdo each other at a pissing-distance competition.

I'm reading 'Internet Spaceships Are Serious Businsess: An EVE Online Reader', edited by Carter, Bergstrom and Woodford (University of Minnesota Press, isbn 978-0-8166-9908-7 $22.95).

It contains some excellent contributions (also, alas, a few inaccuracies). Among the things which got my attention was the assertion that, despite being a game conceived and executed by northerners (Iceland), and played by folks from around the world, the culture of the game is driven largely by Western (i.e. North American) ideas of both 'fair play' and acceptable 'grief play'. The cultures of both the 'land of the free' flag-wavers and the 1960s Frat-house seem to dominate.

It's only when I considered those ideas that certain things fell into place; Eastern Europeans are autists, Russians are aggressive and cliquey, Chinese are botters, etc.

As a previous comment made clear, it is precisely the level of 'freedom' enjoyed by players of EVE which seems to give rise to the kinds of behaviour seen on forums and in Reddit threads. It's almost as if having obtained these freedoms, some folks feel they have to use them in denigrating others.

It's an interesting book, and I'm only half-way through. I recommend it though, to anyone interested in video games generally and EVE Online in particular, for a scholarly approach and a fresh eye.

This is a long comment, Gevlon; feel free to cut it down as you see fit.

Marek Zaborowski said...

I would like to point out, that EVE is generally conflict focused game. You play it to FIGHT others people. I mean, if not the pvp element EVE would be terribly boring game. So its not a suprise, that r/eve is full of people that loves confrontations, conflicts, flamewars and ruses. They are trying to recreate the climate of EVE afterall, which is more or less catched on new Citadel trailer.

Tithian said...

EVE mentality is that you are allowed to do everything, in the name of the 'sandbox'. Even activities like the 'bonus room' were allowed, until Ripard went against it (and even then the backlash towards him was such that he quit blogging). This attitude is even reinforced by the devs, i.e. Falcon shitposting on the reddit as if he has an agenda on 'EVE politics'.

Of course the subreddit will be a cesspool if the general idea is that it's a slightly more moderated 4chan.

Anonymous said...

I'm doing something horribly wrong. I don't get that fast xp like you. I'm 53 5x% valkyrie and elrics hurt me a lot. Manes and helms go down in an acceptable pace (when no elite is arround) but the XP gets slow. My gear is +15 none-PRI/DUO accessories sitting at 96AP 187DP. Also elrics is nearly always full with people. I channel hoped a bit but it is always full (Alustin server) or do you grind in the morning or very late night?
right now trying to max punishment and righteous charge so I can cancle SOJ-third-hit more frequently so I can dance and block a bit more and manage CDs. My current skill plan I failed by taking Judgement of Light I know. It sounded so promising but it cant beat rage absorptions free DP+ACC.
I tried sausan and they hurt. the range mobs and canon guys hurt like hell, everytime when CCs don't land (yuria+vangertz shield +15) they will nearly kill me.
Dancing isn't killing and not killing is not getting XP.

On Topic. EVE has a "unique player base". I never encountered so much vile in any other game. Nearly every other community is more friendly. Even Aion is overall better and that game also has a good ammount of dickheads.

Gevlon said...

@Anon: a Valkyre without severing light? No wonder you have problems. That keeps your HP topped. Also, why do you want to cancel your SOJ third hit?

I just ran into the middle of a pack of Elrics, taunted them all in with Divine Power, jumped out, they all gathered where I was, Celestial spear, SoJ 1-2-3-ultimate, Severing light 1-2-3-Ultimate, repeat twice, full room of dead Elrics.

Anonymous said...

I mean to cancel the SOJ first two hits! it is all about the SOJ third hit + ultimate. Celestial spear ultimate will cancel the first two hits of SOJ and deal direct SOJ-third + SOJ ultimate damage. Same with other abilities. Righteous charge and punishment seem to have these cancelling abilities too. See timestamp 1m02s good executed cancelling and 3 very fast third-SOJ+ultimates. So instead of first and second SOJ it deals immediately SOJ third hit + ultimate damage to hopefully knocked down targets getting all the downed dmg multiplication.
Severing light and Divine Power, huh, well I have 61 points to spare. I didn't get Devine Power because it looks very expensive (110 skillpoints). I'm getting better with cancelling so there should be enough time for me to severing light knocked down enemies. I will get severing light and in 6sp the ultimat, maybe that will help, Thanks!

Anonymous said...

I would speculate that most of the constructive discussion and sharing in Eve is done on other websites such as wikis, internal forums, and perhaps Eve forums. That would leave r/eve as the place to go for trolling and proclaiming your discontent with the opposition.

Having not played BDO I can't say for sure, but it seems that it does not have as many communication options and so r/blackdesertonline would serve to fill in many of those functions.

PS - I have to assume that the moderators also play a role, as many people that play Eve take delight in being scumbags publicly and the rest of the community sees that as a constitutional freedom that can never be censored.

Gevlon said...

Severing light don't need the enemy to be knocked down. It turns them away, so they can't damage you and fills your HP. Also, its ultimate knocks down enemies.

jstk said...

I thought it was obvious. BD is mostly a single player game and there's no real way to interfere with other people's game, so it's normal they have no reason to "shit talk" others like r/Eve does.