Greedy Goblin

Monday, April 18, 2016

EVE is Zimbardo Online, don't play it!

Since I'm done with EVE, I'm taking a little break from games. I don't want to jump head-first to the wrong game. That doesn't mean a pause in blogging. I'll clean up the blog, organize it, write real world ideas and so on, both to keep the ball running and to make it easier to form the criteria of finding a new game.

Today I get rid of the "Come Play EVE Online" permanent page and replace it with a warning post instead, so people don't fall to the trap I did.


Anonymous said...

And I thought you were quitting over the new Jita citadels and not because of the player culture which is in fact as hood or bad it always was.

Cathfaern said...

I am reading your blog since... well I'm not sure but I found your blog when tried to make more money in WoW (it was before you "took over" Wintergrasp). And I read it back to your first post when I found it. I never played EVE (I tried sometimes, but I was raiding in WoW with my guild and didn't find enough time for EVE) but continued to read your blog and it was really worth it!
So I'm glad that you won't stop writing, I'm looking forward to your posts (and of course your new MMO if you find a suitable one).

Gevlon said...

@Anon: I quit because the player culture permeated the developer culture, leading to developers openly favorizing groups even in crimes and cater to them in features.

New Jita is the latest and most broken of such caterings. Doubling anoms, API-ing siphons are examples too. New Jita is simply unbeatable, so even an MBC size player uprising can't do anything about it. Game over.

Rachel Rodaz said...

Did you ever get your Titan, Gevlon?

All that money, and you never completed the very first goal you set for yourself.

Hanura H'arasch said...

Looking forward for more real world ideas, always liked those the best.

And I guess you should change your logo as well, otherwise it's confusing.

Anonymous said...

You realize your "warning" is libel right? You're attacking a professional company and making up things based on what you think is their motivation. If they wanted to they could utterly destroy you from a legal standpoint.

Good luck!

Gevlon said...

@Rachel: I realized that it's a dumb goal and didn't. The money is better spent as subcap SRP.

@Hanura: good point, I replaced it with an old one and make a new one with the next game.

@Anon: Go ahead, make my day. Hint: Derek Smart is still not "utterly destroyed". The thing is everything I claim is either a link from someone (so they need to sue the original author) or something I personally experienced and can prove at court. CCP is much better off creating professional atmoshphere at work and get rid of a few corrupted devs who use EVE like they own it than generating me 1M hits with "Texas law" threats. Or can you quote anything from the page that is untrue?

Gevlon said...

@Anon: on a second thought, I don't even claim ANYTHING about CCP besides the fact that they fail to enforce any resemblance of rule and order.

Everything I claimed is against individual "players" and developers. Do I claim that CCP Falcon is "corrupted or simply sadistic"? Yes, and I'm EAGER to stand face to face with that shit in a courtroom!

Anonymous said...

Hi Mr.Gevlon,
I was reading your blog for some time, even when I left EVE just to see the state off it. Given that my experience can confirm everything that you say in "EVE is Zimbardo Online, don't play it!" it was foolish of me to come back in hope that things changed. And now, after two months back in game, state is worse then ever. Less people with constant decline even with this "war", skins and skill extractors for real money plus subscription, community that still considers PVE a cancer but everyone is doing it to support l33t PVP needs, etc. And boy o boy, the people and length that they go to come on top is beyond anything that I have seen in any game. So yes, you are right, in other hand I'm staying a little bit longer to see how long they will be able to hold this state before going "Free to Play", and when they do, it will be something grand. Why I think so? How many games have shop and subscription with decline in people and are still around, plus today PLEX can be made stupidly easy, so honestly I don't see any other way for CCP to survive. But that's just my two cents, maybe I'm wrong and everything is just grand. And thank you for your blog, it's better read then anything else that I have found regarding EVE. o/

Halycon said...

The times I find CCP being corrupt in game design are few and far between. Usually it just seems like they're hobbled by what came before and a personal biases toward game direction. Or, just outright shortsightedness. This doesn't mean there aren't a few people at CCP I think have no business being in the places they are at. But that is every company of any size in existence.

Eve will never be what I want it to be. It just won't. But there isn't another game that even tries. I've been to other MMOs in the last few years. They're universally horrible. Terminal cases of the dumbs pitched towards a short term high churn playerbase. It's only in certain types of single player games I get a similar sense of accomplishment I used to get from MMOs.

nightgerbil said...

While I take your points, eves culture was always toxic in certain quarters. Just reading miner bumping or headonist bots "I apologise for nothing" blog and you get angwe style stories of griefing and nerd tears.(by the way I wish I knew how to link to those with just their name). It never bothered me unduly as I experienced the same thing on wow pvp servers, except there it was even easier to lock me out of being able to play entirely and with even less consequences.

Its pretty obvious though from reading what they write that they take glee in disrupting other peoples game play experience. All the rationalisations they come up with (making content. bored pvers leave the game. its a pvp server) are just that. The honest truth is some people enjoy stopping others having fun. You know I heard over in a guild chat in swtor last week "I love making people ragequit war zones" If hes going out on a stealther and deliberately killing the same undergeared under leveled guy over and over, through several games, until he stops queueing entirely and says "screw that pvp isn't for me" how can we as a community complain "this game is declining" and beg in chat "please queue wzs !!!1" without condemming this type of behaviour?

The difference between bioware/swtor and CCP/eve however is that in swtor that behaviour is rightly seen as destructive and the devs are apathetic towards it. In eve online that behaviour is the point of the game, ccp falcon was recruited from that part of the community that engaged in that behaviour and those groups most rewarded by in game success are those who use it as part of their in game strategy. Pl farming brave to death? giant wormhole corps leveraging their power to evict smaller groups so that no emerging threats arise and replacing them with renters, even the goon terror campaigns in high sec (burn jita et al).

A guy who said all that far better then me though:

I for one was beaten up enough as a kid to not want to spend my adult relax time being beaten up by kids over the internet. Thus why I don't play on pvp servers and I don't play eve online any more. Well that and the fact eves pve is pretty boring. Swtor wanks all over it.

Gevlon said...

@Nightgerbil: griefing players can be stopped in game. The end of Goons arrived by the hand of almost everyone in EVE. Some had bigger parts than others, but still.

The problem is with grefing devs.

nightgerbil said...

@ Gevlon Oh I agree. The devs are the problem I would argue from their founders. I've heard it said that eve was written by a bunch of pissed off icelanders angry that ultima online had made a pve safe zone so they couldn't grief anymore. I don't know if thats actually true, but its certainly believable. Certainly you can't truely blame those devs who were hired by ccp FROM THE GOONS for then going onto being pro griefing. Rather blame the company that hired them and avoid the game.

Its a shame as its been the only real spaceship mmo for so long. I wish I could fund bioware to make a star wars expansion to "eve like" swtor. to actually fly our ships when we left stations. the potential is massive.

Anonymous said...

I'm with you Gevlon!

Playing since 2010... 3 accounts, 3 toons ... unsubscribed last month! And I was a paying subscriber. The skill point trade thing was the last drop for me (flawless made in 2 months of dev - and how many features are in beta and buggy as hell, for years!) and the "New Jita" is just retarded! Bye CCP!

Anonymous said...

I am also out of Eve, I have played since 2006,(with a couple breaks) was a member of Snigg before PL was even born and at the time alongside Tundragon and Moo the most feared and best PVPers in the game. I flew with Shamis when it was small gang warfare - no hot drops, just 7-8 of us against 40 and we would win. The game then was about skill, leadership and most of all trust. I have treid to get back into Eve, became part of the one of longest surviving groups, Fountain Core, a place for bitter veterans. who have stayed in Fountain despite BOB, Goons, PL , Brave, and many others. .. but its time to call quits, the game is not what I remember and loved, No its all about getting the few guys in supers do their thing and everyone else is just there to set up the super pilots, I could go to low sec, or even High Sec but I have spent so many years in Fountain, that I cant leave so its appropriate that I finally die there- with all my assets locked away - so no you cant have them

Anonymous said...

You might want to look up the Asch experiment as well. It explains a lot about eve players.

MoxNix said...

It's about time you finally figured Eve out!

Borat Guereen said...

I watched the Big Short movie this week end, and it struck me how the three main characters played by Christian Bale, Steve Carrel and Brad Pitt are all different examples of outsiders characters, not buying into the fuckeries that the slackers and moronic "socials" helped create, led by corruption and greed from the top of the pyramid.

Anonymous said...

@Gevlon: I have one final request for you. The april killboard data, would you do it? Pretty please? I'm dying to know how hard gonnies got it.

Gevlon said...

@Anon: I know Asch and it only applies to the dumb followers, not the leaders and devs who first tell that "short line is long"

@Borat: of course. And everyone laughed/rejected them

@MoxNix: why didn't you publish this revelation yourself years ago if you knew it?

@Anon: sorry, you have to do it yourself.

Anonymous said...

Whats gone wrong with EVE? its simple its lost its individualism, a single player can no longer become a legend, when I started playing a corp badge was only there to show who you could shoot, it was individuals we feared. like Phelan Lore, a nightmare in a vagabond, Verone the master at gates, Poxy Jack rackham could scan down a rats eyeball in seconds, Spathi,Enjoi and Shadowjet all would warp into a ball of enemies in only a ceptor and 9/10 get out alive with kils, Theo who would solo his Raven with some really oddball set ups, and win. then its was all about each pilot gaining a rep, now its about the corp/alliance rep and the individual pilot means nothing-that's what Eve has lost, the chance for an individual pilot to become a legend- it had so much promise for the individual player but now its just about numbers, Eve will survive - but Eve as the game I love died a long time ago

Anonymous said...

Perhaps you should not wait too long on the next game; companies tend to make a lot more prototypes than final products they greenlight. Can you really do the best job of a priori evaluating a game, especially based upon a lot of socials descriptions? Take a test drive; try the top three candidates for a week or two; you will get a few posts at least. After the EVE breakup, I am not sure if you will find a game of non-trivial size that will appeal to you.

P.S. FYI: Google of Gevlon Goblin shows six entries embedded under the first listing:
About and feed
Why was I ganked?
Newbie guide for riches in EVE
Guide to riches for low/null/WH ...
The GRR project
Come, play EVE online

So the still up "Come, play EVE online" page is still much more visible than the new warning page.

Hanura H'arasch said...

@Anon, Gevlon: it may make sense if we both publish our tools for killboard analysis? Even if it's a terrible mess it's probably better than nothing.

Anonymous said...

Today's instalment of Zimbardo in Space game.

New player twitch streamer is put under harassment by goons who taunt her about her recently deceased grandfather. Which is supported by goon leader, who is now elected CSM member.

Anonymous said...

CCP Falcon was undeniably very inappropriate and toxic here. Personal attacks out of the blue from a community manager - not touching on any subject matter - and the thing is still hired? No remorse? No apology? So the guy intends to

continue... Business as usual for CCP Games. There really isn't any room for benefit of the doubt here, the guy is not fit for duty because a commuinity manager is expected to know etiquette and set a good example - not intentionally do

the opposite. I can't understand why CCP Games wants to keep such rabble around, it does reflect badly on them that the guy is still around at all.

If I had to venture a guess CCP Falcon has repressed hostility over something that it can't resolve, and lashes out with immature vindictive name-calling, typical of a narcissist that feels powerless or something - so very pathetic.

Looks like an sadistical narcissist to me. Who knows what's really up though? A healthcare expert, that's who.

Whenever CCP Falcon feels down and sad for whatever percieved injustice the asshat dreamt up, he should obviously take responsibility for his/her mental health issues by seeking healthcare. As a community manager, spewing bile is so very

unacceptable. Perhaps the guy has read one too many toxic customer support tickets and is losing it? Since the thing tried to belittle subject matter with drummed up mental health issues, I don't think CCP

Falcon's mental illness will be adressed without inervention. CCP Games is responsible for their employees work related health though and it is on them to intervene.

To me, the complacency from CCP Games regarding this abusive community manager is a red flag and I will not return to EVE or play any other CCP games anytime soon. I get enough bullshit IRL. CCP Games needs to try to maintain their

prestige to remain competitive, same as any other company on the free market. When someone is in open contempt of their work title, like CCP Falcon evidently was here, just sack the worthless shit then ffs CCP Games!

Basil said...

You should keep screenshots of the original links' destinations in case someone edits or removes them.

2 manno said...

@ Gevlon. Really enjoyed reading your blog the past few years as you absolutely ripped GSF apart. Congrats, looking forward to more.

Мрако said...

Thanks, Gevlon. I was thinking about giving a try to EVE, but changed my mind. So at least one saved soul in your ledgers.

Paul Dejean said...

I never understood you quitting because of the new jita.

However i understand this reasoning perfectly. It's also why i quit Eve.

There really is a culture of bullying.