Greedy Goblin

Saturday, January 16, 2016

A petition

I'm having trouble making myself log in to EVE recently due to the stuff around CSM and other "community issues". I know that MoA just needs a little more time to evict Goons and then I can finally quit victorious and not defeated, but still it's a struggle every day. I woke up in the middle of the night in a crazy EVE-related nightmare and as I tried to sleep back, I came up with a weird idea. Not having much to lose, I made it. I doubt if it worth anything, but I'm sure I can sleep well now:


PS: sorry for this totally worthless post, take this SMA Tengu as compensation.

PS: Also, there is a surprisingly high 2015 killboard report for today too, sorry for the mess on my blog.

PS2: the obligatory "T1 destroyers blobbed by 3x more T3 dessies, BCs and assorted nonsense" battle with the usual outcome.

34 comments:

maxim said...

Moves like that can have a great impact if you have a significant following.
And by that i mean truly significant. Girolamo Savanarola or Ghandi level significant.
Not sure you are at that point yet.

Wonder what will you do if CCP just says "denied". You are not in a position to go "I will not accept if nominated and will not serve if elected". Or rather, your only way to even attempt it is to delete the character that receives the donation money.

Thanks for another interesting thought excersise in politics, though. Much appreciated :D

Kevan Smith said...

That's Heinlein level libertarianism there, friend. Not a nightmare. 07.

Anonymous said...

Speaking of that Tengu, discarding some minor fitting issues, it's an acceptable ratting fit, nothing too stupid about it more than not the worst case of bling I've ever seen, save for the fact it didn't run away in time...

Anonymous said...

Well I for one will be pleased if you throw in EVE - especially given how shoddily you've been treated by CCP. For one guy to create so much content in a game is just unbelievable.

I've been following you for years and I've loved your anarchic views on WoW and WoT and I gave EVE a go because of your blog. I loved the idea of goblining in space - I just found the barrier to accessing the info I needed too high and gave up because the ROI of my time just didn't seem to provide enjoyment.

However for 18 months I've still followed your blog - and I'm pretty sure that whatever game you explore next, I'll have a go at it.

CCP are wrong and you are a real treasure for EVE - I mean even if it's just for all the angst you've caused the goons - that kind of engagement created by a single player is just exceptional.

NuTroll said...

I agree with anon , EVE would be the worse off if goblin left. This is a great blog and the only one I read when I take breaks from eve.

nightgerbil said...

@ anon 16 January, 2016 09:49

Oh come on a purger rig with a shield booster? t1 rigs, but faction bcs? t1 rigs on a t3 crusier? Its the kinda fit thrown together by a noob whose bought a tengu pilot, is tinkering with copy pasted fits from forums, but doesn't understand the theories behind them. its a classic example of why test, sma and a whole host of other null sec alliances are hives of incompetence that make spirit cloth wearing death knights look like they know what they are doing.

nightgerbil said...

just to add to my last comment; the capsule killmail is also fun https://zkillboard.com/kill/51398095/

check out the armour implant...

Basil said...

Honestly, you're unlikely to break the goons- the pressure you're putting on them makes them have a harder time to do what they do, but they can still do it. And if you ever stop, they'll snap right back to what they were.

You aren't changing the conditions that allow them to exist with your actions, but you might be doing it with your words.

Esteban said...

Good move. Not like the 1.whatever billion matters much to you, and it's a little extra integrity not to be supported by CCP even in a small way.

As to EVE-fatigue, I realise that you love data and strategy above all things, but I'd still recommend doing more actual combat flying to break up the river of numbers. Farm some Goons yourself. Either anonymously as stress relief or for more blog posts from the frontlines.

Zax said...

You were rejected for running for CSM because you were not running.

You were told "Submit valid candidacy that isn't going to waste the time of those running for election to the CSM or players who want to contribute to the development of EVE Online via the CSM, and you'll be considered as a valid candidate."

Somehow, this got lost in translation to become "You are banned from the CSM".

Gevlon said...

@Esteban: I don't have EVE-fatigue. I have Falcon-fatigue. Every day I play the game I contribute to his salary which I really don't want to.

@Zax: Players who want to contribute to the development of EVE should help removing that horrible obstacle called CSM. There is no honest way to run for office, as CSM membership is good for two things:
- to spy on internal info to use it for market manipulation and prepare your alliance with doctrines post-patch before the enemy can
- corrupting the development to cater to your group

Any candidate trying to run for the betterment of EVE have failed and left in bitterness (Rippard, Sugar). There are a bunch of punks who just run for a free overseas ticket and a cool forum icon (Mike, Corebrod), the rest are snakes running to hurt EVE to elongate their RMT-ing space-empire.

"No CSM needed" is a completely valid platform and Falcon stopped it because it was dangerous to Goons.

Zax said...

""No CSM needed" is a completely valid platform and Falcon stopped it because it was dangerous to Goons."



No, "Don't vote" is a valid point to take, as if no one votes, no one will get elected.

Do you think you can persuade enough people to vote?

If not, please explain how you do anything but make more goons end up on the CSM?

If you got votes, what would you do? As an individual, force the disbanding of the csm? How?

If people didnt vote for you, do you think that no one would end up on the CSM, or do you think that the blocs would be the ones voting?

So, your ticket was actually a "Give more power to the blocs" ticket.

Gevlon said...

@Zax: does one get enough voter is a good question for any candidate and there is one way to figure out: run and see if they vote for you. Maybe I didn't get enough votes, showing that the people disagree. Maybe no one votes for me, making me a fool. But Falcon didn't risk the chance that enough people vote for me because my success would be disastrous to Goons who are dependant on manipulating CCP and getting exclusive development info. Without the CSM they are done in months. With the CSM it might take a year or two.

Chris K. said...

Been following you for years, and as much as I enjoy reading about your projects in EVE (just as I enjoyed reading Rippard's blog), the game itself in its current iteration is a lost cause. There needs to be some major reshuffling of community managers and a redesign of the platform for dev-player interaction, since this is not WoW and the behind-the-scenes meta game actually matters. But it should have happened years ago, since with the recent declining numbers, CCP is less inclined to stir the waters in fear of displeasing their current playerbase.

I for one am looking forward to your next project in another game.

Anonymous said...

Sorry for being a dummy but what is a "Media Account"?

Gevlon said...

@Chris K: they just made some serious reshuffles. They also got a new top dog for community management, so they even have a vague idea which department needs improvement. CCP isn't lost cause.

@Anon: practically a free account for having an EVE-related media (blog, stream). They support your play in hope you get new them free advertisement on your media.

Anonymous said...

I had no idea CCP did this... it's bad for the game imo but whatever...

Anonymous said...

"the rest are snakes running to hurt EVE to elongate their RMT-ing space-empire."
Seems like your categorisation of why people are in the CSM is a massive oversimplification. There's loads of good reaons people run for and get on the CSM and the CSM has contributed massive amounts to the game. Your problem is that if people aren't helping to get rid of goons you consider them either the enemy or useless and write them off. Your black and white view is your problem.

Anonymous said...

"But Falcon didn't risk the chance that enough people vote for me because my success would be disastrous to Goons who are dependant on manipulating CCP and getting exclusive development info."
Actually, he didn't let you run since you were going to be inactive making your position drop to the next person anyway, meaning there was no point to your campaign. He simply did what would inevitably happen anyway before you had a chance to waste people's time. Also, he is a PL player, so why would you think he is a goon supporter? He says what he says about you because that's his opinion of you, an opinion shared by most people that you're a tinfoil hat wearing crazy person but entertaining nonetheless. That doesn't make him a goon.

Gevlon said...

@Anonymous: my view of the CSM is shared by most people. Just read any blogs. Hell, even CCP Leeloo has to accept that the CCP-CSM relations are damaged: http://crossingzebras.com/the-csm-process-ccp-leeloos-view/

@Next anon: the purpose of my campaign was to let people have an "I'm active and interested but reject the CSM" vote. Even if it had no formal consequence, it would deliver a message. Now we can boycott, but no one can tell if a non-voter is actively boycotting or just can't care less.

Can you link a source that he is a PL player?

If your opinion about a client of your job is that he is a fat, smelly, ugly person, do you start yelling about him? Falcon is entitled to consider me a madman. But he must had some reason to go out of his way starting a reddit campaign about this opinion. Or you also think I'm the only "controversial" person in the community and that's why no one else got such attention?

Foo said...

"my view of the CSM is shared by most people. Just read any blogs. is propaganda. By all means make the claim (it works on a lot of people), but stating this doesn't make it true.

That the CSM/CCP relationship has flaws is not disputed by many (even me).

The fix simplest of which is to encourage people to vote for better candidates.

Anonymous said...

"my view of the CSM is shared by most people. Just read any blogs."
I have. Most people accept that the CSM isn't perfect but is very much needed. That's not at all your view.

"the purpose of my campaign was to let people have an "I'm active and interested but reject the CSM" vote"
they can do that by not voting and by posting in a thread to say that. It's pretty simple, In order to run a CSM campaign you must have a desire to actually be on the CSM and contribute. You didn't have that so you don't get to have a campaign. The ting is I think you knew this and you knew it'd get shut down and you just wanted the ammo. It doesn't work though because most of us are smart enough to agree with CCPs decision on that one.

"Can you link a source that he is a PL player?"
His old character name is Verone, people quite publicly talk about that if you look abut, He was in PL back in the day with a few other CCP devs.

"If your opinion about a client of your job is that he is a fat, smelly, ugly person, do you start yelling about him? Falcon is entitled to consider me a madman. But he must had some reason to go out of his way starting a reddit campaign about this opinion. Or you also think I'm the only "controversial" person in the community and that's why no one else got such attention?"
He didn't start a reddit campaign, he simply stated his opinion publicly, which we encourage EVE devs to do, especially the community guys. The thing is, if you've got such a problem with people thinking you are insane, why don't you try changing the way you behave? Or if you really don't care about other people's opinions, then stop complaining about it. At the end of the day I've read countless blogs from you insulting people in far worse ways than Falcon did for you, so I have absolutely no sympathy.

Gevlon said...

@Foo: you are running. Can you tell me how you are better than Rippard or Sugar who tried and failed?

@Anon: Reddit are full of worse opinions about me and others. But pwnzor99 has very different position from CCP_Falcon, just like you can talk shit under the name pwnzor98 while you very much shouldn't do it to a client with your corpororate nametag on. I'm pretty sure CCP Falcon is capable of the same distinction. I'm also pretty sure that he knows how to make an expendable reddit account. Also, slipping once is very different from repeatedly pressing the same "opinion". He willingly again and again tried to discredit my blog, which shows a clear agenda. What this agenda is I can't know, but I can make the most obvious guess: he is helping Goons, which is kind of hinted by these facts:
- he saved Goon criminals from justice and lied to the media to save the face of Goons
- he allowed Sion to brag about it on the Goon propaganda site
- he created lot of content for the Goon propaganda site AFTER Sion bragged about his stunt
- he was the poster boy of the Goon propaganda book

Finally: the most important question: why did he stopped my CSM campaign? "It was a worthless waste of time" is not an acceptable answer, since we can agree that half of the candidates have completely wortless and rubbish platforms, even to the point of literally "i dunno what im doing lol" and these candidates were allowed to run and fail with a few dozen votes. If he honestly believed that I'm a timewasting idiot, he could just lay back and let me fail like the other half hundred timewasting idiots. The only reason to stop me if he was afraid that I could succeed.

Anonymous said...

"while you very much shouldn't do it to a client with your corpororate nametag on"
That is just your opinion. Most of us like that CCP employees are more casual when speaking with the community. It's on of the things that draws us to EVE is the independent nature of the developers vs big corporations like blizzard. He didn't "slip on ice" he simply stated his opinion. It wasn't something he accidentally said, it's something he believes. Again the choices come down to you either accepting critique and changing or getting over it. Nothing else will make a difference.


"- he saved Goon criminals from justice and lied to the media to save the face of Goons"
No, he didn't. I've seen this explained to you over and over again but you actively refuse to get it. For a start Falcon was only the public face of the organisational decision, and the deal they cut with the criminals was reduced punishment for coming forward and admitting they did it. As for saving face, he didn't lie, he simply didn't blame the entire organisation for the independent activities of a couple of members. If a couple of MoA members committed a crime off their own backs and CCP were to say "these people did it alone", you'd be happy and you'd be outraged if they were saying "MoA did it".

"- he allowed Sion to brag about it on the Goon propaganda site"
By the looks of it CCP don't get involved in propaganda on third party sites. You should be thankful since some of the times you've insulted goon leaders would qualify as EULA breaches if you'd said it in game.

"- he created lot of content for the Goon propaganda site AFTER Sion bragged about his stunt"
He just continued his normal duties and goons capitalised where they could, just like you've capitalised on every action he's taken lately to push your own agenda. Again he has nothing to do with what third party sites say.

"- he was the poster boy of the Goon propaganda book"
So? He agreed with a book designed to publicise the game made by the company he works for. Of course he would be on board with that.

"Finally: the most important question: why did he stopped my CSM campaign?"
Because it wasn't a campaign. Your campaign did not exist. That's like me turning up to a dog show saying "I'm not bringing a dog so you'll just have to judge my empty stool". I'd be disqualified for entering the competition without bringing a dog. It's the same with you. He will allows you to run on the CSM if you have an actual campaign and actually want to be on the CSM. The reason you won't do that is because you know he wouldn't then ban you which would prove that he has no bias against your campaign. You don't need to have a good campaign or even be remotely competent, but you can't run in an election if you have no intention of holding the position if elected.

Gevlon said...

@Anonymous: care to point out any "criticism" in his posting? "You are crazy" is simply a blanket insult. I don't know how shall I change to not be crazy.

- Accepting being a public face for a decision needs one to fully agree with the decision. Or to be a moral-less parrot. Since he had the written testimony of the criminals that they did it IN THE NAME OF GOONSWARM, so Goonswarm is just as guilty as IS for the San Bernardino shooting. Imagine that police would hold the IS link back just to protect the innocence of the IS guys who were not involved! Also, their deal didn't address the part where the criminals libeled me with their crime. They weren't forced to issue an apology.

- If CCP don't get involved in propaganda, why does Falcon do anti-Gevlon propaganda? Also, the developer with the printed CODE permit is clear CODE propaganda. Sion clearly mentioned CSM involvement that he couldn't brag without CCP allowing him to publish NDA-ed material.

- He actively shown up on TMC as content creator, not just Goons used his official forum quotes. He did streams and stuff on TMC.

- The fact that he was supporting a book that everyone in the community harshly condemned the only Goons were behind it didn't really show bias, right?

- But my honest position is that the CSM is bad and should be disbanded. How can I create a campaign by his rules?

Foo said...

@Foo: you are running. Can you tell me how you are better than Rippard or Sugar who tried and failed?

There are 2 approaches to trying things.

* Only try what is known to be achievable, and aim for a high success rate
* Try to do new and unknown things, accepting partial results.

You get more done accepting partial results than simply going for goals that are accepted to be achievable.

Your own goals with grr goons show some of this.

Have you defeated goons yet? No. Have you shown that they are far more vulnerable than their previous propoganda had everyone believe? Absolutely.

You have plenty of people tell you that some groups are invulnerable and no point in trying. You and I both know better.

Gevlon said...

@Foo: I'm interested to hear your new approach from CSM. How do you deal with leakers and Goons who manipulate CCP over beers with corrupted employees and only use CSM to legalize this (if someone secretly record their crap, they weren't manipulating corrupted employees, they just continuted CSM work in a bar)

Anonymous said...

"care to point out any "criticism" in his posting? "You are crazy" is simply a blanket insult. I don't know how shall I change to not be crazy."
All of it was criticism. He states you are crazy because of the way you post, so if you don;t like it, change the way you post.

"Accepting being a public face for a decision needs one to fully agree with the decision. Or to be a moral-less parrot. Since he had the written testimony of the criminals that they did it IN THE NAME OF GOONSWARM, so Goonswarm is just as guilty as IS for the San Bernardino shooting."
That is utterly ridiculous! Goonswarm had nothing to do with it. Just because the idiots were in goonswarm doesn't mean that goonswarm is responsible. If someone joins MoA then RMTs claiming it's in the name of MoA should all of MoA be held responsible? All this is is you being mad that goons weren't destroyed because of the individual actions of a couple of it's members - which it has absolutely no control over.

"Also, their deal didn't address the part where the criminals libeled me with their crime. They weren't forced to issue an apology."
So? That wasn't part of CCPs investigation. If you wanted an apology you were the one responsible for going and getting it.

"If CCP don't get involved in propaganda, why does Falcon do anti-Gevlon propaganda?"
He doesn't. Stating his opinion is not propaganda. The code permit was a funny gift from code. Sion getting clearance to speak about something that happened in the CSM isn't CCP supporting his posts. Again, you are just grasping at straws here trying to find anything you can pull on. You wanted to know how to post less crazy? Being this desperate to find ways to attack everything doesn't help.

"He actively shown up on TMC as content creator, not just Goons used his official forum quotes. He did streams and stuff on TMC."
A community manager is being part of the community? Honestly I'm shocked. That's what he does. He's been on other podcasts and done interviews for other blogs too.

"The fact that he was supporting a book that everyone in the community harshly condemned the only Goons were behind it didn't really show bias, right?"
Except of course all the other people that weren't goons supporting it, like leadership from other null groups and random players. And no, it doesn't show bias, it shows support for community driven projects. The only reason you think it's bias is because you are against it, therefore you deem it as unfair automatically.

"But my honest position is that the CSM is bad and should be disbanded. How can I create a campaign by his rules?"
It sounds like you can't, since you don't want to be on the CSM. Most people can understand why that would mean you can't run a CSM campaign. It's basic common sense.

Gevlon said...

It's obvious that he don't like the way I post. I'm the only EVE player whose posting he doesn't approve, probably I'm the only shitposter in the EVE playerbase. I wish to improve to get "Falcon approved". Can you point in his quotes where he specifies how I should improve. I mean what to do less, what to do more?

The criminals weren't simply "in" Goonswarm. They confessed in writing that "[we did it] to be edgy, to act like us". They wanted to adhere to the Goon image, the "Goon idea" was guiding them in their act, just like the IS propaganda was guiding the San Bernardino shooters.

So you think that CCP did right to protect the "innocent Goonswarm members", but wasn't responsible to protect the innocent me. Interesting.

Every propaganda is an opinion. So parroting "opinion" doesn't give him clearence. Also, it's strange that all the "funny gifs" support Goons and all the "opinions" insult anti-Goons. Widespreading biased opinions is the definition of propaganda.

Can you link his "other podcasts"? Because I only saw him on TMC. And I saw him a lot.

Can you link him supporting "community projects" that weren't favoring Goons?"

So you think that I'm not allowed to run because you disagree with my idea. That's charming.

By the way are you Arrendis? You sound like that damn propagandist. The same annoying parroting of Goon panels.

Anonymous said...

"I wish to improve to get "Falcon approved". Can you point in his quotes where he specifies how I should improve. I mean what to do less, what to do more?"
I never said his criticism was constructive, I just stated it's his opinion which he is allowed to have and allowed to stats publicly. That said, surely you can see what you would need to change to become "Falcon approved"? Less tinfoil driven ramblings and less bad propaganda is a start. I get though that that's your thing, so just go the other way and don't care what he says. The way you are doing it now, you are clearly upset that people have negative opinions of you yet don't want to do anything to stop them having them.

"The criminals weren't simply "in" Goonswarm. They confessed in writing that "[we did it] to be edgy, to act like us"."
That's still the actions of individuals not controlled by goonswarm. It would only be goonswarms fault if they were told to do it. Otherwise someone could just join a group, breach the EULA, say "I did it for the group" and watch the whole group get punished. Again, this is just your bias that is making you feel this way and common sense tells us that groups should not be blamed for individual actions.

"but wasn't responsible to protect the innocent me."
No, they weren't responsible because that was an action taken on twitter. It may not have even been done by the same people that vandalised the monument and CCP have no ability to know that. If you had a problem with what someone did on twitter it's your responsibility to raise that with twitter.

"Can you link his "other podcasts"? Because I only saw him on TMC. And I saw him a lot."
http://capstable.net/blog/2014/06/09/cap-stable-presents-01-ccp-leeloo-ccp-falcon-corbexx-major-jsilva/

There's one from the first set of google results. But he's on loads. He's the community manager, it's his job to do that stuff.

"Can you link him supporting "community projects" that weren't favoring Goons?""
I'm not your personal googler, but look up other projects and I'm sure you'll see him. I know he supported Rixx with his merchandise at fanfest.

"So you think that I'm not allowed to run because you disagree with my idea. That's charming."
No, I think you're not allowed to run because you aren't running to be a member. You state clearly that you would be inactive and get kicked off if you did get enough votes, so there's no point in them letting you run. There's no way you still don't understand this.

"By the way are you Arrendis? You sound like that damn propagandist. The same annoying parroting of Goon panels."
No, I'm not even a goon.

Gevlon said...

- I'm not upset by people having negative opinions about me. I am upset by a CCP employee who has godlike power in the game to openly tell negative opinions about me and only about me. I also disagree that less tinfoil would help. Minerbumping.com has some really weird stuff going on and they got ... a picture with a dev holding a CODE permit! Maybe I should declare ownership of Deklein and proclaim a holy crusade of the Goon thieves who dare to steal my Guristas and Falcon would hold my ID. Don't you think it's more reasonable?

- The fact that the official Goonswarm site took responsibility for the act a half year later wouldn't hint that Goons were actually in favor of the act? I understand that Falcon couldn't know that in advance, but after Sion openly bragged about it, he could change his decision and condemn Goons in general for the attack.

- CCP knew that the same people made the twitter as they confessed it. Also if twitter stuff is out of CCP scope, why was Stunt Flores banned who sent a fabricated meme image to a friend who put it on twitter?

- You're right. I shall make a full compilation of Falcon appearances. Want to bet which site will be #1?

- OK. If I believe that the best CSM is a CSM with no NDA or stockholder power, can I run?

One question: what do you expect to achieve by posting here?
- to convince me that Falcon is not actively trying to damage my project?
- or to convince me that Falcon is entitled to actively damage my project and I should just deal with it and not tring to shoot back at him at every opportunity?

Anonymous said...

"I am upset by a CCP employee who has godlike power in the game to openly tell negative opinions about me and only about me."
What godlike power does he have? He just went on reddit like anyone else. If he'd stuck a notification on the EVE launcher, then I'd understand.

"I also disagree that less tinfoil would help. Minerbumping.com has some really weird stuff going on and they got ... a picture with a dev holding a CODE permit!"
Well their "weird stuff" is called satire. They put on this extreme viewpoint for comedic effect, and they certainly don't sit around accusing CCP of being corrupt. That said, if you showed up to fanfest and gave them a "support Gevlon Goblin" badge, I'm sure they'd accept it too.

" The fact that the official Goonswarm site took responsibility for the act a half year later wouldn't hint that Goons were actually in favor of the act?"
No, and and no point did they ever claim to be in favour of it, or even claim responsibility. They simply stated what people already knew, that the people responsible were in goonswarm at the time that they did it.

"CCP knew that the same people made the twitter as they confessed it. Also if twitter stuff is out of CCP scope, why was Stunt Flores banned who sent a fabricated meme image to a friend who put it on twitter?"
No, they didn't know that, and they have no access to twitter logs to prove it. And since you made it quite clear you didn't care they saw no reason to take it any further. Had you complained to CCP and twitter, perhaps it might have caused action. Stunt flores was banned because he had been banned several times before, and was under investigation for harassment already when this all kicked off. CCP chose to stop wasting time with temp bans and got rid of him. I love how you ignore everything else that happened prior to that action, as if he was some innocent angel.

"You're right. I shall make a full compilation of Falcon appearances. Want to bet which site will be #1?"
Reddit, 100% for sure since he posts there more than he does on the official forums. Outside of that, probably crossing zebras, capstable or TMC. Because he appears on a lot of podcasts, so those are popular, and TMC is the most well known EVE news site.

"OK. If I believe that the best CSM is a CSM with no NDA or stockholder power, can I run?"
What your campaign is isn't actually relevant. You can run on a campaign to have all planets made pink or to get rid of spaceships if you want, but you have to run with an intention of actually being on the CSM and actually fulfilling the role that a CSM member is supposed to fill. You wouldn't run for president under the campaign of "I won't be president if elected", would you?

"One question: what do you expect to achieve by posting here?"
The only thing I hope (but do not expect) to achieve is to get you to perform a bit off self reflection and realize that all you are doing is damaging your own reputation. You want CCP to make changes and you want players to help you push CCP to make them, but your claims are outrageous and clearly driven by bias. How can you possibly expect anyone in a position of power to take you seriously?

And Falcon is entitled to his opinion. Nothing you say will change that, so get over it. Shooting back at every opportunity just makes you look desperate and weak.

Foo said...

@Foo: I'm interested to hear your new approach from CSM. How do you deal with leakers and Goons who manipulate CCP over beers with corrupted employees and only use CSM to legalize this (if someone secretly record their crap, they weren't manipulating corrupted employees, they just continuted CSM work in a bar)

I don't think I need to solve the leaks. My reading is that CCP are currently less willing to give over sensitive information. There is still useful information to be exchanged. Looking at the last set of CSM minutes, a significant amount of business was transacted that was not secret. The same will apply throughout the year.

However, lets assume CCP are wanting to give NDA information, but want to solve leaks. I would actually involve CSM far earlier in the process. Rather than present near completed ideas, involve CSM in the brainstorming/kicking ideas around phase.

Present some ideas as the opposite of what is intended. You want to get feedback on buffing Warp core stabs? Propose banning them to the CSM.

Present some ideas to parts of the CSM without giving it to all of them. Rotate this through different members.

Attempting to convince CCP of a viewpoint is the role of CSM, whether at an official function or around a bar. Again it does not matter what name you give the feedback mechanism. Fanfest, CSM, Focus group 123 or even the elevator trip are all legitimate feedback mechanisms/opportunities to convince devs.

I am part of the development group in my first life role, for a heavily regulated financial services industry. We have quarterly drinks and a work subsidized social club. A surprising amount of work is done over those beers (or wine) especially where staff ask those outside of their direct reporting lines for assistance or offer advice and opinions.

If/When on CSM, I fully intend to continue my work at the bar, over a few drinks.

Gevlon said...

@Foo: then you are part of the problem.