Probably because it's Christmas, Goons are hoping that there can be mercy for them, so despite the "nuts!" message from yesterday and mocking their begging on Reddit, they are still back on their knees:
Let me explain Goons! In every PvP alliance the line members want war. You are corrupting the leaders to betray them and "create content" instead, in forms of staged fights. MoA can't be corrupted, because the leaders don't have control over their members. There are no space assets or blue lists that one can lose by being kicked. So even if you could buy off Massa and Gen Eve, all you'd achieve would be all members quiting and creating MoA2. So your bribes and offers will not even be considered.
There will be no "frenemy" status, there won't be NIP, there won't be "mutually beneficial agreement". There will be an all-out war, till the last minion is freed and the last "true Goon" is beaten back to Empire! All your offers will be harshly rejected and mocked! There will be no mercy, not even on Christmas for the Emporium!
Let me explain Goons! In every PvP alliance the line members want war. You are corrupting the leaders to betray them and "create content" instead, in forms of staged fights. MoA can't be corrupted, because the leaders don't have control over their members. There are no space assets or blue lists that one can lose by being kicked. So even if you could buy off Massa and Gen Eve, all you'd achieve would be all members quiting and creating MoA2. So your bribes and offers will not even be considered.
There will be no "frenemy" status, there won't be NIP, there won't be "mutually beneficial agreement". There will be an all-out war, till the last minion is freed and the last "true Goon" is beaten back to Empire! All your offers will be harshly rejected and mocked! There will be no mercy, not even on Christmas for the Emporium!
31 comments:
Insert William Wallace Reference here.
Aww....
Why not let them dance on MoA's strings? Endless negotiations, the SHITTANI himself rolling in the dirt and begging MoA to NIP.... Oceans of tears...
But if they rented the space they could kill as many if not more goons as they used to but would make more isk for their line members replacements ships... I will never understand irrational people. Oh well, guess they will remain poor forever.
Courthouse is the awful shitlord who tried to get miniluv hero Powers purged by claiming he was was leaking. I doubt he has a friend in Eve.
We have an culture rift that stops us (MOA) from ever joining them. The MOA of years ago that joined the CFC, is not the MOA of today. They were promised all kinds of goodies to keep their PvE playerbase happy. MOA even built a station, and just as the station was built and Vile Rat died, the rules changed and MOA was booted from the CFC. That was the old MOA, it was only after that that I joined up with them. The new MOA, is a pvp focused group that has littel to no interest in ratting, PvE, mining, missions ect. We play the game to PvP, and have fun as a tight focused group. Using small gang tactics to effect good results on the battle field. I have no doubt that in any equal numbers game we would come out on top. Our tactics and ship use are a result of the area we live in , and the numerical advantage of our enemy.
We have our own unique culture in EVE, and its not for everyone. We live in the middle of the biggest enemy in EVE.And we thrive. The harder they hit us, the more they hell camp us, the more they DOXX us, the more they meta game us, harass girlfriends, use spies, tell people to die, use the game as a RMT cash cow,the more they DDOS our TS3 the more we will dig our heels in. We have fun killing the CFC and goons by the thousands, so there is not much incentive to leave and start moon mining and setting up SOV.
What we need is more groups to move north and stand toe to toe with the CFC with us. It seems however that some groups do not have the fortitude to do so. And very few groups are left up north to harass the CFC.
That being said we will continue on using the tools we have to cause as much damage as we can using the mechanics of the day. All the while having fun.
When I see the CFC spewing on about things I usually have one thing to say to them "SILENCE SCUM"
Happy holidays.
Mass
This is 1000% what you would expect to see when an (r)abbit society colides with a (K)wolf society. The rabbits can't understand why the wolves won't betray each other, because betrayal is all rabbits do.
http://www.anonymousconservative.com/blog/r-strategists-appease-k-strategists-confront/
You've really got to start reading Anonymous Conservative. Since I've groked r/K, everything in the world makes more sense. (r)abbits are created by a world of free resources. Being a goon has always been about free resources, so the rabbits flocked to the goons. Wolves, on the other hand, flocked to the place where competition is competition, and you have to meet the "you must be this tall to ride" requirements.
Now I see your issue with provi, because provi is not expansionist (actually has a hard enough time herding their own cats let alone trying to take space) to you they are a non entity. I never realized that because provi internal rules are essentially NIP you can't stand that.
Non Invasion Pact while we don't actually have Pacts our standing rules essentially mean this.
thanks Gob's hadn't thought of it like that before.
@99smite: I would do that, but Massadeath isn't a blogger looking for good material, but an army general and handled it with a "nuts!".
@Anon: taking the deal would mean the following things:
- MoA would be further from Deklein and Branch. They could only kill SMA, which is fun, but won't destroy Goons, since Goons can't care less if SMA is destroyed
- The MoA line membership would lose trust in the leaders. "I wonder what secret addenum this treaty had". It's even more nasty with more recruits: while a MoA member have first hand information, the potential recruit can easily be convinced that "they are just another frenemy like PL"
- While today the offer is "you can shoot our line members as much you want, just take this NIP". Half year and half trillion ISK in IHUBs, towers and assets in conquerable station, the Goons can offer a new deal: "Deklein and Branch are off limits for you, and can only kill in Fade or we blow everything up and hellcamp your stations until captured".
- Now MoA is in the middle of CFC space and still about half of their losses are from third parties. If they'd live next door to Syndicate and Fountain, they'd have much more visitors distracting them from fighting Goons.
@Massa: indeed
@Provi Miner: I never formed that thought consciously, but yes, that's the thing. If you aren't expansionist, you are not being.
In effect they are desperate to be able to control MOA on their terms, they cannot force them to defend as there are no timers, they cannot attack MOA ratting that much, the hell camps don't work and are boring for them, they cannot force MOA to do anything, they hate having no ability to leverage their strengths and hate that MOA can do to the Goons what the Goons have done to everyone else.
Does anyone really think it sensible to go take sov in a crap region just so the Goons and others can leverage their advantage.
MOA is doing great stuff as they are, I just hope that CCP do not make any changes to 0.0 NPC space.
Dracvlad
"In effect they are desperate to be able to control MOA on their terms"
No, they really aren't. It was a massive bait mail to get MOA posting about it and it worked.
MOA have no real chance of defeating goons because they don't go after strategic targets, and pretty soon citadels will be out and shortly after that the phasing out of NPC stations, at which point if MOA can't defend their own structures, it's game over. Pretty much all goons have to do is wait. The only reason MOA are ale to survive is because they use indestructible stations and don't commit too much in ships.
To play to win in EVE you need to risk significant amounts of what you have. If you're not willing to do that, you're destined to lose.
@Anon: "strategic" objectives are cheap-ass structures that can be easily replaced. Losing expensive ratting ships hurt more. Can a ratter replace them? Sure, but sooner or later asks himself "wouldn't it be cheaper to pay rent for Shadow of xxDeath instead?" When the answer is "yes", one Imperium member is lost. According to the ratting graph, it's already happening.
Hoping that mechanics changes will save you is typical Goon behavior. Please note that
5X is mere 6 jumps from lowsec, so in ABSOLUTE WORST situation MoA has to travel 6 jumps more. Do you claim that 6 jumps are "game over"?
@anon 16:48 sov space stations get replaced with citadels NPC 0.0 and low sec stations remain as they are,that is the reason you will continue to be farmed
If you aren't expansionist, you aren't being?
How is MOA expansionist? They still own zero SOV. They have zero influence on SOV.
@Jim L: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-IFu2WySBRX8/VmA6nFjf6TI/AAAAAAAALAo/pc6p58ipNIc/s800-Ic42/wares.png
@jim I think you might have misunderstood. Non expansionist for a sov holding alliance is non being in gobs world. Instead if provide dropped sov moved to low or to stain and just killed shit gobs would reclassify them.
Expansionist sov holder = exists
Non expansionist sov holder = non entity
Non sov holding renter, ratter, miner (who don't support PvP group) = non entity
Non sov holder who fights, or is a pave group that supports a PvP group) = exists
Anonymous said...
"In effect they are desperate to be able to control MOA on their terms"
No, they really aren't. It was a massive bait mail to get MOA posting about it and it worked.
A massive bait to get them posting about it, I doubt it, but if it is as you say all I can say is good god you Goons are so desperate for content that you even make yourselves look extra stupid to get it. You lot are turning into a massive joke, seriously the boredom is getting to you...
Dracvlad
@Anon 17:49
You might want to check your facts on that. CCP have made it very clear that NPC stations will be replaced. They want people to have to engage with risk, and in the long run they want everything destructible.
@Gevlon
""strategic" objectives are cheap-ass structures that can be easily replaced. Losing expensive ratting ships hurt more."
No, "strategic" objectives are the only thing that matter to a group as big as goons. Even you have proven that killing ratting ships affects nothing. You will continue to kill them for all eternity, and if by some miracle you manage to kill enough that they actually have to stop ratting, all they will do is rat in highsec on alts where you can do nothing about it and carry on.
At no point will it be cheaper to rent, especially considering how little ratting ship costs in the grand scheme of things. Null ratters can replace most of their ships in less than a single day of playing. Unless they lose more than one significant ship per day, they are isk positive. The only exceptions are blingers who either have enough isk to not care or are dumb enough they'd lose the same wherever they live.
"Hoping that mechanics changes will save you is typical Goon behavior"
I'm not a goon. And there's no "hoping", CCP have confirmed that following the release of citadels, NPC stations will be phased out, as having unattackable safe havens in nullsec defeat the purpose of nullsec. I would expect that to affect lowsec in the long run too. The point is they don't want people to have ultimate safety.
@Anon 23:48
"A massive bait to get them posting about it, I doubt it"
Why do you doubt it? It's exactly the type of thing I'd expect from goons, and none of the mail reads like a begging post. On top of that they have no real reason to beg. MoA have been out for goons blood for years and still goons are all you hear about in nullsec.
"You lot"
Not a goon. I'm just not so anti-goon that I have to turn everything into propaganda, because in the long run that does no good. I'm much more of a realist.
If someone is ratting in highsec, why should he be in GSF? With "blueball or blob" being the doctrine, what else can GSF offer to a player than ratting space?
Many people rent as we speak. This proves that renting is competitive with being in Karmafleet. So all we need is pushing the equation a little and the ratters will leave in legions.
We don't know what will be the scheme after citadels. But there will always be a way to fight. Here is a simple one: drop small citadel in Goon space, freight a few JF worth of hunter ships there, start killing ratters in its vicinity. There will be reinforcement cycles and invulnerable periods. So even with zero effort to defend it, that small citadel will live for a few days, serving as a base. When it's destroyed, 90% of the value will be teleported back to lowsec. Repeat until eternity.
You realize there is a time cost to your citadel strategy as well right?
@Jim L: Sure, setting it up and freighting the stuff takes time. But it can placed anywhere, even in deep Branch, saving the pilots the time need to travel from 5Z to Branch.
In the dev blog they're also mentioning ISK and time fees, when your stuff is automatically moved.
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/i-feel-safe-in-citadel-city/
Of course it can be minimized by using cheap(er) stuff and placing additional equipment in different places.
But it's all still work-in-progress and might change.
I think the players will adapt to the changes very quickly, once everything is set. As usual.
Wait, do you seriously expect us to believe MoA has the guts to pull off a move like this? I mean, let alone put a 600m asset on the line and risk (pretty much ensure) its destruction, but also jump a JF into hostile space and risk it being caught.
Still talking about the same MoA, "Sell your caps/supers", "no expensive ships/pods" risk-averse, corm-flying MoA, right?
@Gevlon
"If someone is ratting in highsec, why should he be in GSF? With "blueball or blob" being the doctrine, what else can GSF offer to a player than ratting space?"
They get offered loads of things. People to hang out with, roams with replacement ships, high end industry opportunities, personal moon production with protection, ganking events with pay, etc. Just because you can't see it or you wouldn't enjoy it doesn't mean they don't have anything. And these are just public ones, I'm sure there benefits that we don't know about too.
"Many people rent as we speak."
People rent because they don't want to join in on ops. I rented from the russian block for a while. Losing a ratting ship from time to time was nothing, the rental costs were painful, which is why I moved to an alliance that is attempting to hold some sov.
"We don't know what will be the scheme after citadels."
No, but we know what CCP have said which is that they don't want indestructible stations for people to hide in.
"But there will always be a way to fight."
I'm sure there will but people who want to fight will have to be willing to risk their assets going forward. They won't be able to hide in NPC stations using cheap ships while their opponents have to risk everything. I don't think MoA will survive if that happens because they aren't actually strong enough to defend their assets.
"When it's destroyed, 90% of the value will be teleported back to lowsec."
Assets won't get teleported to lowsec, they'll appear in a can that the owners can get to and they'll still have to try to evac them. After losing a few citadels they'll lose interest. NPC stations are good because thy can dock and repair and rearm. I doubt a citadel in reinforce mode will allow full access to all of the facilities. The reality is that people should be looking for a way to deal with these things now, before they are a problem, but I know MoA, and they won't.
@"Assets won't get teleported to lowsec, they'll appear in a can that the owners can get to and they'll still have to try to evac them."
That's not described in the dev blogs so far.
Depending on the location of the destructed citadel, the assets from personal and corp hangars should be teleported to the nearest other (own) citadel or to the nearest NPC station - in low-sec for 0.0 and low-sec or high-sec for high-sec.
wait. CCP want to get rid of all npc stations? This is hardcore stupid. when will this role out?
No one knows what will happen, not even the devs. Everything is being formulated and planned. Don't panic!
no matter what the dev's do until they shrink the map we are still in stagnate period. To much room even for alliances. The jump fatigue, and the citadel, and the mini entosis games all have major impact if there was more density. however, right now you can turn entire regions into wastelands (read buffer zones) people can move in and you can evict them when you want. If they shrink the map thing become far more interesting.
@Provi Miner: there is no need to shrink the map, merely the resources in them. Cut the anoms to 1/4, the moons and belts to half and they can no longer stack so many players into one region.
"wait. CCP want to get rid of all npc stations? This is hardcore stupid. when will this role out?"
Why is it stupid? EVE is supposed to be a difficult game. In the long run they want everything to be destructible. If you can't defend your stuff, don't own it.
"Cut the anoms to 1/4, the moons and belts to half and they can no longer stack so many players into one region."
That's exactly the opposite of what CCP want though. CCP want more players packed in to smaller areas so there's more people overall in null. The problem is that with the big null groups they can still exert their power over other null dwellers without having too claim ownership. For that there is no real solution. No matter what happens there will always be groups at the top.
Of course its stupid to remove NPC 0.0 stations, but if you are too stupid to work out why its a stupid idea then I am not going to help you work it out.
And as for your bait theory being a Goon wind up, that was a win win type of mail, at best it was for them to state that MOA are too chicken to take space, cry more please because MOA play to their own strengths not the Goons.
Dracvlad
22:51Anon Why is it stupid? EVE is supposed to be a difficult game. In the long run they want everything to be destructible. If you can't defend your stuff, don't own it.
Say that with a straight face to a several week old newb. And anybody that redeems their plex to a jita 4-4 wreckage.
CCP does not inspire confidence in mechanics, be it removal off existing or building new ones. never have and never will. sure node stability is finally better but eve supposed to have many things long gone for the archives and anecdotal posts of bitter vets.
CCP will be making a very stupid move to transform eve in a somewhat space rougelike mmo thing.
Well CSM will save us. Yeah, right ...
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