Greedy Goblin

Saturday, September 19, 2015

Weekend minipost: where I link the Goon propaganda site

I hate to generate them traffic, but this post is a must be read.

There should be some form of voting so players can signal CCP that this is the right thing to do.


Erwin said...

Y'know what'd actually work? Nerf saving. The problem right now is that there is a lot of isk accumulated. Make isk a good, let banks be attackable. To protect new players, let the banks insure up to some limit for free. And charge increasing fees as banks start overflowing.

Gevlon said...

Erwin: that would just make hiding money in goods. Or simply increase turnover. Wouldn't help with the problem: winning is not ISK intensive.

The solution is to make PvP more ISK intensive. A T2 ship should be able to take on 3-4 T1s of the same type, forcing people to spend ISK if they want to win. Newbies would simply not PvP until they gathered ISK or stick to novice plexes in FW. Losers could get on their feet again by doing PvE.

S Riojas said...

I have to agree with two step, especially regarding the Sansha Incursions: shouldn't that be over by now? He is certainly right that concentrating moon goo types into more limited areas of space would force more resource fights.

Another area that needs to be "fixed" is the actual Tech 2 industry. All Tech 2 BPOs need to be redacted from the game. This will mean more materials have to be used to manufacture tech 2 ships since invention does not get you 'perfect' ME.

And yeah, a Tech 2 should be more than marginally better than a tech 1 of the same hull.

maxim said...

I agree that "the rich" of Eve have indeed accumulated a bit much wealth.

I also agree with the general sentiment that more interesting dynamics are needed if the severely lapsed hardcore competition aesthetic is to be the focus.

Thing is, though, it really is not the focus anymore.
Eve is slowly becoming a sandbox in a pure sense of a word - a non-threatening environment for limited experimentation. Titans are now sandbox Titans :D

You really can't have high stakes in a sandbox.

If i were to change Eve, i'd start with finding a way to limit the sandbox without losing the fun. Make game a bit more focused.

I'd start by introducing some sort of "progressive tax" mechanic. Some manner of entropy on accumulated wealth, similar to how real-world wealth loses 10-20% of its purchasing power a year (in some cases more), and needs to be amortized. Some manner of PoS fuel, only if the thing that needs fuel runs out, it gets destroyed.
And then i would create a way for all players to help counter this entropy. Farm "fuel", pirate "fuel" from PCs etc.

This would create a much more direct correlation between player performance and health of a corporation. It would also allow attacking other corp's "fuel" sources, defending one's own "fuel" sources etc.

ISK used to play this role, but since ISKs do not really represent access to any sort of scarce resource anymore, they cannot play this role anymore either.

Marek Zaborowski said...

Guys, guys, its not ISK problem.

ISK is just a currency, ISK dont get blown up, ships does, ISK dont go into refinoforcment, POSes do, ISK dont drop from people, modules do.

We dont have a problem of too many ISKs (that would be inflation, that would be only really bad for guys PLEX-ing their accounts, since it is the only ratio that could be influenced by inflation). We have a problem of too many assests.

Its not the problem, that goon A got too much problem, is the problem that goon A can buy so many with said ISK, why its so? Because there is an army of high-sec miners, that destroy nothing and produce monthly above 1,3kkk worth of minerals! (if they want to plex and that is a miner common goal)

Its not the problem, that Incursions are so profitable, or ratting, or escalations. Its the problem, that for 1 hour of ratting You get enough ISK to hire 1 miner to mine for You for 10 hours or 10 miners for 1 hour. What we need to do, is nerf carefree production. More ganking, heavier taxes, less resources in high-sec!

Anonymous said...

According to the summit minutes they have some form of redistribution of moon goo in the pipeline. Just saying and hoping it will turn out well.

Incursions in principle are a good thing to get people to actually fleet up and learn how to work as a team. However, they are just too farmable now that everyone and tgheir mother can just go to a website and learn the right way to fight.

Perhaps the drifter incursions will replace Sansha? And they get the adaptable drifter AI? One can at least hope...

Anonymous said...

Regarding T2 BPOs: CCP did analysis on that a while back (too lazy to look for it now) and the BPOs actually had negligible impact on the production numbers. There are just too few to meet demand for T2 ships, except perhaps some very niche ones

Zosius said...

I always said that ccp lowering the bar by making possible to mine in ventures with huge bonuses, hack null sites with t1 frigate and so on made it best choices vs risk. Even to do sites is almost same efficiency for a t2 fit ship vs deadspace. Differences are so small they are negligible. Why cant they make faction guns do 50% more damage? Up resists for deadspace mods so one slot equals two of t2. Oohhh the balance. And there we have it. World of t1 cheap shit because premium doesnt really add that much

Anonymous said...

The article conveniently ignores the single largest ISK faucet in the game: nullsec ratting. If the changes Two Step espouses were to go live, players would be forced into the arms of the nullsec empires, because the only risk-free ISK generator left would be the Isktar. Since the safest nullsec ratting space is CFC space, even with the heroic efforts of MOA, this change would be a huge handout to the Goons. I am legitimately surprised you support these ideas without some reservations, Gevlon. Heck, it would even end up destroying your implants business, because LP would absolutely be put on the chopping block, too. After all, half of incursion income is in the form of LP.

Dirk MacGirk said...

It ain't the ISK. I don’t disagree that there are some ridiculous ISK faucets in this game, but what I’m not sure about is whether those even matter given the massive amount of hoarded wealth in the game. If there is so much wealth out there, if the faucets are so wide open, then it should provide for an easier path to riskier behavior aka shit getting blowed up? If ISK is easy to come by, which quite frankly it is, why do so many seem content with sitting on their piles of ISK like so many Scrooge McSpaceDucks waiting for the proverbial rainy day? Because that is who they are and no amount of ISK is going to change them. Likewise, why are so many seeking to approach EVE as a job just to accrue ISK in order to buy PLEX so they can play to pay? Has PLEX itself created a vicious cycle where some players spend so much time trying to PLEX their accounts that they miss out on other areas of what the game was truly designed for?

Risk aversion it isn’t about ISK. It’s about player mindsets in how they approach the world of EVE. No amount of ISK will get players to engage in a part of the game in which they have no interest.

Anonymous said...

The article is just generic "nerf hisec" tear-nado which is so 2013 it almost felt like pope election all over again.

Gewns have been crying (and CCP caving) to hisec nerfs for some time now, they just see hisec as an enemy they can't blob and are afraid of it, thus the constant nerf hisec tears.

Nothing to see there.

Theodora Dunkelmauer said...

I will have to agree with Marek Zaborowski.

ISK aren't the problem, it's just a mean to buy some minerals based products. So a solution would be to raise the mineral cost of the end product.

But on the other hand, EVE is a game, and is played for fun, so we still want peoples to undocks and have some fun. Raising the price of all ships and modules would just make peoples even less likely to join a "balanced" fight.

I think a solution could be to leave frigates and cruisers as they are, and maybe raise the price of the "strategic" ships ( BS and larger ) so that loosing them would still be meaningful at an alliance level.