Greedy Goblin

Saturday, August 1, 2015

Weekend minipost: Golden Goon FC tears

So MoA is keep reinforcing CFC systems. Their fleets are out there enthosising everything. Reagalan, one of the Goon FCs who are defending the Evil Empire shared the following experiences:
F*** hate it, but I've come to accept it as part of the steady, irreversible decline in the quality of Eve. The risk to attack sov is way too small. Sov trolling is a thing, but right now we are able to handle them, even if most of us really don't want to. When Fleetwarp to Results is removed we won't be able to anymore but I don't expect this to not be removed. Bad proposed changes are inevitable these days
We did a fleet last night to take back a system of ours in Pure Blind. What would have been a 20min op using supercaps last night was an hour-and-a-half ordeal of sitting there mostly AFK while a paltry hostile force smugged about some dumb*** cynabal kill they got 3 jumps over. They tried to kill my drake and failed miserably.
DBRB and I did a sov thing in 3V8 last night. I brought a real fleet of 50 vs two shitty fleets of 30 5mil ISK destroyers, was outnumbered, still had very little fun because we kinda just sat there chasing down one hostile fleet while the other one blueballed anyway. I soloed part of a Cormorant fleet with a single Abaddon. It felt like a massive waste of time for most of my fleet and I'd rather have not done it, but only did because dealing with one stupid node is way easier than ten. My skirmish command group is becoming less and less active because chasing no-fight Svipul gangs or uncatchable Interceptors is not fun, and that's all we ever run into.
Interceptors should lose their warp immunity, they're fucking retarded and have been ever since they got warp immunity. I don't have any hope this will happen though.
Jump fatigue/SpaceAIDS on subcaps/jump bridges is shitty beyond shit. I can't relate in words how disappointing it is to have a great network that I can barely use to defend my space. I've been forced to keep fleets out longer than I'd like to just to avoid getting double-doses of spaceaids. I fully expect that replacing the current stations with destructible citadels will result in us mass-moving all of our shit to NPC stations. There is no way we would ever leave trillions of ISK in a place where total loss is even remotely possible. NPC nullsec still has too many advantages. But, hey, one single hackerceptor can threaten a hundred titans' worth of stuff.
FCs crying? Check! People have little fun? Check! Attendance decreasing? Check. Plans of moving to NPC null? Check. My prediction: VFK by December! My smug: I've told you!

PS: please check out the thread of Stunt Flores. The guy is probably the best solo PvP-er in EVE, with a killboard that make miner gankers shy. He is also recruiting pilots of similar skill for massacring the minions of Evil. I didn't even wait for the monthly data and supported him with 5B mid-month.


Craze said...

Could you do a post about what sov should like according to you under the current system? I'm interested to see what you think big groups should do.
Do you think big groups should split into smaller groups or should they play the game differently.

The current system is very much an attacker's game. What MoA is doing isn't anything special. It's something any group staging out of npc null or low-sec could do and I'm sure it'll be something reavers will do if the cfc get into a real war again.
The reason bigger alliances don't attack goon space like that is because they have assets in space they risk when goons eventually get annoyed enough while MoA only risks the ships they use.

The reason Reagalan is annoyed isn't because of MoA directly. He's frustrated by the game mechanics which I'm sure a lot of linemembers are frustrated with as well.
The problem is that defending takes a lot of time even if nobody shows up.
What this all comes down to eventually is how you think sov should look like and everyone has their own opinion on that.

I don't think the people who want smaller groups to fight each other will ever get that. The reason is simple, one group will get attacked and form an alliance with a similar sized group to fight the attacking group and agree to help each other from there on out.

Then there's the whole bigger groups should hold even less space. This will lead to a lot of empty space which won't be useful to small groups because the bigger groups will just shit all over it unless they pay and we're back to renting. At the same time bigger groups will lose the incentive to attack each other because if you want more space there's plenty of it to take easily.

So lastly we're left with what you seem to hope will happen which is the cfc abandoning sov and moving to npc null / low sec. If this happens the cfc would basically be PL. No sov but still all the moons for income. And if they get bored enough sov null would change dramatically because the cfc could become MoA on steroids. While I personally wouldn't mind this you have to recognize that it's also a gigantic failure of game design when 1/3 of the game is more or less gone.

Personally, my money is on ccp reducing the amount of command nodes or something similar so defending is more in line with attacking with regards to the time it takes.

Wall of text and all that but I'm interested to hear what you think.

Gevlon said...

Big groups should abandon most of their formal Sov and let big, no-owner land stands between them. Keep only systems that they actively use. Check the June ratting data:

Pure Blind isn't even on the list for being too low. Goons don't live in PB, they keep it only to give MoA and others a finger. Are they surprised that these groups give them a finger back?

Unowned space doesn't mean unused space. Smaller and larger groups alike can rat, mine or explore in systems where they have no formal Sov.

Rob Kaichin said...

Amazing, you abandon a thread for a day and it explodes.

Ignoring the various amounts of hyperbole, it seems to me that people are struggling with a 'gate to escalation'. There are a lot of troll-ceptors (needs scare quotes), but not much more than that. When there is 'major' content, the reports seem semi-good.

If I was CCP, and feeling radical, a *gigantic* shift (read reduction) in the number of Sov-Systems seems the optimal way of doing this. People need other people to escalate, you cannot do it yourself.

So, Crash the Drone Regions into one or two 'meta-regions', same with the North East. (I'm basically in favour of removing Cobalt Edge.) The removal of Deklein appeals in a ironic sense, but I think the removal of whatever no-where region/s (Tenal/Venal/Vale of the Silent) would be more effective.

As for the West, It seems pretty sparse already. Cloud Ring could go. The bug-bear here is the South. There are way too many regions here, but many of them are populated-ish. I'm going to make arguable calls, and say this: "Remove every system not with 20 or so Jumps of low/high-sec". By my maths, this should remove: Period Basis, Paragon Soul, Omist, Feyth (long may we keep her in our hearts), Esoteria, Immensea could go (I would pick Tenerefis, but it is the interconnecting region).

Suddenly, the 'critical mass failure' for Aegis-Sov is limited (if not removed.) Pressing people together is always a recipe for fractions brawls. Hopefully, this would be good for larger fights, but I feel it guarantees smaller ones with much more certainty.


Now, this would require a *massive* GM time investment not to screw over anyone building/living in these regions, and a large CCP investment to rebalance the large number of moons I have just obliterated. Prior announcement by CCP that "Stargates are becoming unreliable in distant regions, with calamitous effects", (and enough yelling that WE ARE GOING TO DESTROY THESE SYSTEMS) should remove all but the most braindead to the 'safe' space. As an upside, it gives CCP another 800? systems to develop player-built tech for...

Perhaps in the chaos of our former homes, we'll find new and insane materials to develop the next stages of our existence? And maybe, just maybe, something will find us?

Rob K.

Ex said...

With the recent PVE changes to Nullsec, alot of Pure Blind, just became useful. It has nothing to do with giving MoA the finger, MoA is so far down the radar for the Imperium, its like a fly buzzing around before dinner.

MoA are an opportunistic group who jump into a system and camp it in the hope of kills, then run when an organized group turns up to fight them, I have seen it time and time again.

The new system has issues that CCP need to sort out. But with any new system there is always problems with it. I tend to agree with the quoted comments in your post, we turn up to a system that has been attacked, to find the fleet has warped to a deep safe and a single attacker in a 3 mil isk ship is Sov-lazoring something, our 50man fleet just warps in blaps the ship and then sits there, these attacking groups are not interested in either the system or a fight, they are just there to annoy. Sov Null is about Big fights, large fleets etc, Capitals and fights. If you come into a system to threaten a Sov Entity, then expect a large response, if you don't like a large response, then why are you attacking in the first place.

The problem is the attackers don't want a fight and are not setup for a fight. All you hear is the Trololollollol as they run away and MoA is the king of that Meta.

Anonymous said...

We have several sources informing us that certain entities like goons, xdeath and others are getting together to convince CCP and change the sov mechanic. They already began the warfare in reddit and there are also threads in russian in eveonline forum. They really are resorted to this now.

Anonymous said...

Thats the russians petitioning the sov change. Look at the names below for people supporting the change

Anonymous said...

This is the english version of the petition. So there is defenetly a campaing to destroy new sov.

By Aiyshimin
"None whatsoever. Furthermore, Garst Tyrell has signed this RMT rental whine without any kind of mandate from the alliance, and he is acting here as a single player, and as such his personal opinions in no way represent the official stance of Triumvirate alliance."
This is some embarasing stuff concidering this was not agreed upon at the alliance level =)

Rob said...

You say your smug, but MOA aren't winning strategic fights. CCP are making the game less appealing, that's all. That's not something you've had anything to do with and it's certainly not something to celebrate.

Most of us dislike goons to some extent or another, but they aren't going away. They are part of the game and even if they end up living in NPC stations and making people's lives hell, the result is the same. If goons end up dropping all of their sov it won't be because someone beat them, it will be because CCP have made sov pointless to hold for anyone. No matter how you try to spin it, CCP ruining the entire point of owning space is not a good thing.

Gevlon said...

@Rob: it's strange that only MoA make timers for Goons. Without MoA, Goons would have no problem under FozzieSov.

Provi Miner said...

I enjoyed that, and you are right in order for the tears to happen you need someone who is willing to cause the pain required. Defending against troll entosising is simple and easy (if you live there) undock Ewar the entosis ship. Buddy entosis to repair if troll has partners you call in your friends bada bing bada boom system saved. Now if you are like goons and despite getting small are still defending empty space its a bitch but live learn adapt or die.

Rob said...

"it's strange that only MoA make timers for Goons. Without MoA, Goons would have no problem under FozzieSov."
It's not "strange", it's simply not true. Timers on all sides have been going up all over. None of them lead to anything since most people aren't trying to actually take sov. The idea was that these would generate fights, but that doesn't seem to happen either as most people are too risk averse to actually fight. That's the problem that all the sov holders are having, that holding sov is a daily defense grind and for the most part is not worth it. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of groups drop a lot of their sov but then continue to claim it as "their space" by simply killing anyone that attempts to use it. Nobody wins and the game stagnates.