Greedy Goblin

Tuesday, April 14, 2015

GRR after Fountain: CFC losses by region

The Goon propaganda site desperately tries to present the next strategic defeat of CFC in a positive light: they are losing Fountain. While they leave it in a more organized way than BRAVE leaving Catch, but the region they betrayed TEST for is lost. To understand why they abandon Fountain, I checked the Jan, Feb and March CFC loss data and combined it with the regional ratting numbers (Jan, Feb, Mar) for the conquerable Botl0rd regions they still have:
Zone B ISK destroyed M rats killed K ISK lost per rat killed
Deklein 950 33.9 28
Fountain 939 9.3 101
Vale of the Silent 719 11.2 64
Branch 551 22.7 24
Tribute 458 4.1 111
Fade 360 3.8 94
Pure Blind 342 2.1 166
Tenal 96 3.6 26
Cloud Ring 76 1.0 79

Fountain is not only the second highest region in ship losses, but also one of the most expensive places to rat. Every time CFC members fulfill their purpose of existence (kill a red cross), they pay 101K ISK in blood. While Tribute and Pure Blind are even worse, these are only bordering with other CFC regions or NPC/Empire space, so abandoning them would allow enemies have new staging points to hit more CFC space. So the result is simple: to destroy CFC, you must kill ships in a home region and they abandon that region for a more silent one where they can continue ratting.

Let's see now who killed the most CFC in their regions, starting by Fountain.
Rank CFC died B ISK lost Killer B ISK killed
1 Fatal Ascension 396 Sorry We're In Your Space Eh 182
2 Get Off My Lawn 194 GaNg BaNg TeAm 122
3 Forged of Fire 126 Black Legion. 99
4 Goonswarm Federation 108 Northern Coalition. 95
5 The Bastion 28 DARKNESS. 61
6 Fidelas Constans 25 Fatal Ascension 29
7 RAZOR Alliance 16 The G0dfathers 27
8 SpaceMonkey's Alliance 15 Nulli Secunda 26
9 Tactical Narcotics Team 12 The Kadeshi 25
10 Circle-Of-Two 8 HUN Reloaded 24
11 - 0 V.L.A.S.T 20
12 - 0 Get Off My Lawn 13
13 - 0 Verge of Collapse 12
14 - 0 #NPC loss# 12
15 - 0 Pandemic Legion 10
- Total 939 Total 939

As you can see, their main killers were not N3, but pirate alliances, with -EH- who I support on top. I guess congratulations are in order for FA for killing more CFC in Fountain than Nulli or Kadeshi. Let's continue with Deklein:

Rank CFC Died B ISK lost Killer B ISK killed
1 Goonswarm Federation 786 Mordus Angels 250
2 Tactical Narcotics Team 118 Test Alliance Please Ignore 76
3 SpaceMonkey's Alliance 16 Black Legion. 58
4 RAZOR Alliance 10 #Corp: Raging Ducks 46
5 Fidelas Constans 8 Hard Knocks Citizens 36
6 - 0 Goonswarm Federation 25
7 - 0 #NPC Corporations 23
8 - 0 Out of Sight. 21
9 - 0 Verge of Collapse 16
10 - 0 #Corp: Hard Knocks Inc. 16
11 - 0 M.I.F 13
12 - 0 Northern Coalition. 13
13 - 0 Pandemic Legion 12
14 - 0 Project.Mayhem. 11
15 - 0 The Gorgon Empire 11
16 - 0 Bora Alis 10
17 - 0 #NPC loss# 10
- Total 950 Total 950

Don't you feel like this result worth a donation? While I have no idea what TEST did in Deklein, I'm sure see that kicking Raging Ducks for not doing PvP was a lie - as usual. We can also see the distribution of forces: while FA and LAWN holds the line against N3 in Fountain, GSF does what it can to protect the anoms in Deklein, suffering twice as high losses. Shall we see Vale of the Silent now, where the Fountain dwellers will be evacuated?

Rank CFC died B ISK lost Killer B ISK killed
1 Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere 353 Legion of xXDEATHXx 83
2 The Bastion 261 Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 47
3 I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 50 Project.Mayhem. 33
4 Fidelas Constans 23 Shadow of xXDEATHXx 25
5 Goonswarm Federation 16 Triumvirate. 24
6 Circle-Of-Two 7 #NPC Corporations 21
7 - 0 Verge of Collapse 20
8 - 0 Mordus Angels 17
9 - 0 Black Legion. 17
10 - 0 M.I.F 14
11 - 0 Synergy of Steel 13
12 - 0 Out of Sight. 13
13 - 0 Infinity Space. 12
14 - 0 DARKNESS. 12
15 - 0 Pandemic Legion 12
16 - 0 Brothers in Arms Alliance 11
- Total 719 Total 719

No wonder the Evil paid Pizza to leave this region and leave their precious renters alone. Unfortunately for them, the neighboring XXDeath and co are staying. Nothing to see here, move along to Branch:

Rank CFC died B ISK lost Killer B ISK killed
1 Fidelas Constans 290 #NPC Corporations 48
2 Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere 251 Out of Sight. 26
3 - 0 Verge of Collapse 24
4 - 0 Mordus Angels 23
5 - 0 #Corp: Hard Knocks Inc. 21
6 - 0 Northern Coalition. 19
7 - 0 Black Legion. 19
8 - 0 #Corp: Lazerhawks 17
9 - 0 Fidelas Constans 15
10 - 0 Ixtab. 14
11 - 0 Pandemic Legion 14
12 - 0 Sleeper Social Club 13
13 - 0 No Holes Barred 12
- Total 551 Total 551

Since Branch is far from staging areas, only the two renter alliances got significant losses and their killers are pretty random, with lot of Wormhole corps among them. Onward to Tribute:

Rank CFC died B ISK lost Killer B ISK killed
1 Circle-Of-Two 254 Project.Mayhem. 73
2 Tactical Narcotics Team 48 Mordus Angels 41
3 The Bastion 40 Outbreak. 20
4 Goonswarm Federation 34 #NPC Corporations 19
5 Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere 28 Total Absolution 19
6 Fidelas Constans 22 Circle-Of-Two 16
7 RAZOR Alliance 16 Out of Sight. 13
8 SpaceMonkey's Alliance 8 Black Legion. 12
9 I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 5 #Corp: MAENNLICH UND GEFAEHRLICH 11
- Total 458 Total 458

I have no idea who Project.Mayhem. are, but good job guys! Otherwise, pretty random list. Maybe Fade will be more interesting.

Rank CFC died B ISK lost Killer B ISK killed
1 SpaceMonkey's Alliance 323 Mordus Angels 59
2 Goonswarm Federation 25 Test Alliance Please Ignore 20
3 - 0 SpaceMonkey's Alliance 17
4 - 0 Verge of Collapse 12
5 - 0 #Corp: Hard Knocks Inc. 12
6 - 0 The Camel Empire 11
7 - 0 Black Legion. 11
8 - 0 Ixtab. 11
- Total 360 Total 360

If only their #3 killer would be more active, SMA would be in an even deeper trouble as they are now. MoA didn't have to work hard for their #1 position, the list is pretty random with a long tail. How about Pure Blind?

Rank CFC died B ISK lost Killer B ISK killed
1 Goonswarm Federation 147 Mordus Angels 143
2 SpaceMonkey's Alliance 126 senseless intentions 60
3 Tactical Narcotics Team 30 #Corp: Piratas Leprosos Guineanos 23
4 Forged of Fire 9 #Corp: Raging Ducks 13
5 Fatal Ascension 7 Blood Raider's Corsairs 11
6 - 0 #NPC Corporations 10
- Total 342 Total 342

In the MoA home region it wasn't a doubt who'll be the top killer. I'm a bit surprised that TNT lost so little, and SMA so much. Let's move on to Tenal!

Rank CFC died B ISK lost Killer B ISK killed
1 RAZOR Alliance 77 Verge of Collapse 7
2 Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere 12 - 0
- Total 96 Total 96

I had to lower the limit to find a single killer who isn't lost in the long tail. It seems no one is specifically after RAZOR. Finally here is Cloud Ring:

Rank CFC died B ISK lost Killer B ISK killed
1 Executive Outcomes 39 GALAXY ALLIANCE 5
2 Fatal Ascension 12 #NPC Corporations 5
3 Goonswarm Federation 9 Sorry We're In Your Space Eh 4
4 SpaceMonkey's Alliance 6 Out of Sight. 4
- Total 76 Total 76

Further limit decreasing allow finding a few random killers. Cloud Ring is mostly dead, both for PvP and PvE. No wonder why the cabal leading the Evil Empire doesn't care that it'll be the new front region after losing Fountain. By moving FA and LAWN into the bleeding Vale, they hope to stabilize it.

Which region they'll lose next? Most likely Pure Blind will be freeported after FozzieSov. Its NPC stations mean that MoA and assorted pirates can't be evicted and free to reinforce everything and hunt down whoever dares to respond in less than a whole fleet. I doubt if they bother to install Sov as the CFC would destroy it out of principle, so Pure Blind will be mostly uncontested.

The only thing bothers me is that -EH- is practically only killing CFC in Fountain, so after it's lost, I won't be able to enjoy their great services. But someone else will take their place, I'm sure.


CFC Grunt said...

I'm curious, what about the losses of those brave harassers?

Also, it's easy to understand why they're abandoning Fountain - consolidation. More people in less space means more active space - harder to lose post-phoebe.

Gevlon said...

Losses of MoA:

Stabs said...

"While I have no idea what TEST did in Deklein"

This is mostly one guy, Sa Matra. He's an amazing interceptor pilot, I've been in a few gangs with him. He flies around Deklein in a sub 2 second align Interceptor warping to anoms to catch the slow and inattentive. He usually has 1-3 other players/alts with him, sometimes he runs a gang (and I've been on a few of those with him).

He's a ratter killing machine.

Anonymous said...

There is a lot of factors in play in nulsec space. One would be quite foolish to claim a victory over Goons without understanding the true reason for them leaving.

Anonymous said...

Are you seriously claiming it's because of pirates that CFC is leaving Fountain? N3 threw everything they had at the CFC to invade Fountain and they failed, miserably.. Now N3 is losing everything they have and your calling that a strategic victory over the CFC? Wow, just wow..... And to think that they would leave a region because some of their line members lose ratting ships which has 0 impact on the alliance.

Gevlon said...

If you look at the charts, Pirates >> N3. Also, I'm sure everything they do (or I do) is totally irrelevant, CFC just abandons a very valuable region because it's fun.

IIR4MBOII said...


IIR4MBOII here of the horrible bunch -EH-.

Please be assured, whomever comes to fountain of course will feel the constant purging of ratters or reinforcement of there assets, just like previous owners and this will continue till the servers of eve die. Our only difference could be the chance to allow non CFC alliances to settle and grow, after all nurturing your prey and guiding them, teaching them, is the sweetest of moments when tears arrive after you turn.
However this isn’t to say we will not be killing CFC.
We have WH hunters every day, looking to gain opportunity`s to hit the CFC ratter territory in the north, and guess we will deploy to do this more and more. We have deployed previously to great success and grouped up with our Bros over @ Mordus angels via WH / Deployments and believe me this was a great success.
Our last WH fleet up:
When the new SOV changes hit we of course have the luxury of NPC space, no threats to our assets  . Which in turn means a couple jump freighters into the npc region Pure Blind and you now have a mobile tear extractor near their home.
The CFC can run home, but so can we straight after them extracting maximum tears on Evaccing, ganking dreads in Frigates, being the pest we can so be. Sitting at perches looking down knowing 200 in a CFC fleet, at least 10 weak slow stragglers, of which 5 are doable. Warp / tackle / gank / rinse / repeat.
Fozzie sov will only restricts those with a mental age of 5 ( Most CFC members especially FA ) but if you look at SOV with our eyes, well… we are sitting here rubbing our hands together knowing that time for the small to rise and become the pests EVERYONE who plays eve can be.
Our CFC killing Services Remain open! And remain strong.

Fly safe

Anonymous said...

"If you look at the charts, Pirates >> N3. Also, I'm sure everything they do (or I do) is totally irrelevant, CFC just abandons a very valuable region because it's fun."

No CFC leaves a valuable region because of incoming fozzie sov. Anybody who knows anything about sov knows it's a strategic decision, has nothing to do with pirates in Fountain. You keep referring back to killboards for your data and reasoning but after all this time you still fail to realize that nobody in the CFC gives a crap about their killboards. MOA's been hitting ratters in Deklein alot longer and killing more than they are in Fountain yet CFC has no plans to leave Deklein. How do you explain that?

Gevlon said...

Fozzie Sov doesn't make Fountain useless or undefendable. It merely allows pirates to hit Sov. So not only your precious ratters but also your structures could be hit by pirates.

The whole post is about why: while MoA kills lot of CFC, they just rat more. For every rat kill there is 28K ship loss in Deklein and 101 in Fountain. About 4x more ratters should be killed in Deklein to force CFC to run.

Alcobob GSF Member said...

"The whole post is about why: while MoA kills lot of CFC, they just rat more. For every rat kill there is 28K ship loss in Deklein and 101 in Fountain. About 4x more ratters should be killed in Deklein to force CFC to run."

By your own numbers, the ISK lost per rat killed isn't a reason for the CFC to leave Fountain.

An average Battleship rat in Deklein will net over 1m, Cruisers still 150k+.
You only lose money if you were ratting frigates, which obviously nobody does on purpose.
That's why people are running Forsaken Hubs, few frigate sized rats which do decrease the ISK per hour.

Now of course, since i'm from the GSF i only know about Deklein, but Fountain was said to be a very good ratting area, so it might/should be comparable.

At the end it means that even if all ships destroyed were ratting ships, it would still be a profitable ISK source.
But you should also remove all the Jumpfreighters and other pure Industrial Ships from the ISK/rat ratio, as the people flying such ships often times don't even rat, and therefore shouldn't be included in it.

You might make a valid point in that there are other ways of ISK generation which are more profitable on an ISK per hour scale, but for many normal line members those are not possible without leaving the CFC.
We can't take our main combat pilot to highsec and run missions there, neither can we do wormholes. Ratting is the only pure combat activity possible to generate ISK in the place they live.

So in conclusion:
1: Ratting is a positive ISK/hour activity, even with losses due to Gangs.
2: Ratting is the only combat activity for line-members to make ISK in their null-sec home.

Gevlon said...

@Alcobob: it's obvious that not ratting losses cause CFC to leave Fountain (otherwise they'd left it months ago).

However ratting losses is a good indicator of pirate activity, which translates to Entosis trolling after FozzieSov. So my ISKloss/rat is a good indicator of "value / risk".

Warden of the North said...

You seem to stop at "They're abandoning fountain so they're losing it."

Well, it isn't the case of Fountain CFC alliances suddenly failcascading, and the enemy taking the region. While you can't spell "failcascade" without "FA", they will be alive and well in the north.

Consolidation of territory leads to shorter reinforcement routes. It also allows them to increase population, making use of the new game mechanics to create a true bastion.

And, if anything said during Fanfest in regards to new structures and system upgrades is true - they will make it a heaven for themselves.

Of course, then the people will howl about CCP tailoring the game to the evil goons - despite having themselves said that those changes will destroy the CFC.

(It will be interesting to see who moves into now abandoned regions - including the ones that now belong to N3, and are about to be liberated by the oh so losing and defeated CFC...)

The Mittani said...

why only ISKs statistics? plz add number of lost/killed ships

Gevlon said...

@The Mittani (totally): it's an irrelevant stat. Losing 100 frigs is nothing compared losing a titan or even a JF.

Robert said...

So if I understand those stats correctly, what you're saying is that if the CFC's only income was ratting (which it's not) that through the ratting alone they remain far in profit, as the average nullsec rat bounty is way above those "loss per rat" stats?

Anonymous said...

>> Fozzie Sov doesn't make Fountain useless or undefendable.

No, but it does make defending a large sov empire harder. CFC are very good at what they do but they cannot hope to hold an empire as large as they have in the face of new mechanics. They are consolidating rather than leave themselves exposed and over stretched. Perhaps if jump fatigue hadn't of landed they might have kept it - but given that they can't portal a fleet to defend any part of the map on a whim, and their sov is now harder to keep... they need to cut back.

Anonymous said...

Rambo you are effective but please save your sperge for local. And last I checked your didn't have an -EH- tag anymore.

Anonymous said...

Sov lasers are just as easy to defend with as they are to attack. As far as isk lost from ratters dying it doesnt seem to have affected the alliances themselves to much. Despite the work put in to display all this data you conclusions seemed to be based off a personal bias. For the most part it looks as if your upset that this group doesnt play in the sandbox the way you want them to play. The cfc has proven unique amongst the power blocs in its ability to adapt and overcome changes in gameplay mechanics to the point that they are able to exploit them

Anonymous said...

Read GSF Upadate again! No mention to where FA is going. Just that someone is going to be left behind.

Looks like to me that FA is leaving the CFC so stay in Fountain.

Anonymous said...

For deklein , and test , you should check Sa Matra / Poitot Dot same pilot .You will like him a lot ))