Greedy Goblin

Sunday, November 9, 2014

Weekend minipost: bad argument for the clone changes

CCP will remove clone costs. While I'm unhappy about it, since a 100M SP pilot in a frigate is an abomination in my eyes (fly a capital or T3 you scrub), I don't really have a good argument against the change, so I don't argue.

However people have a very bad argument for it: "it penalizes people heavily for forgetting to update". This isn't an argument against clone grades. It's an argument for a popup warning you before undocking, like the one you get if you try to undock without the courier mission cargo in the ship.

9 comments:

Zyan said...

I'm also not happy about this, for me it looks like one step closer to: "death without consequences"... how far till next step 100% ship insurance, fitting inclusive for free.

And CCP is loosing a ISK-Sink.

Foo said...

Apparently a 4% isk sink

CFC Grunt said...

And why an older player should be barred from flying a T1 frigate? If it's a fun thing he'd like to do - refresh his perspective on frig PvP, fly tag-team with a newbie who can't fly anything else or just plain old fly around in a T1 frigate everyone will pick on, he shouldn't be barred from doing so.

The risk of losing a clone is still there, if you invest in said clone. It's not like they're cutting the costs of implants or making them persist through death.

Bobbins said...

Why is an older player barred from flying a T1 frigate?
An older player should have access to an easy supply of isk which the newer pilot doesn't.

Removing the clone cost unfairly benefits older pilots to whom the replacement cost of a frigate is meaningless. And indeed if the clone cost is removed the older pilots may spend the isk to fit more expensive implants and fittings (or get a faction/T2 frigate) making their 'frigate superior to the newer players.

Iiene of Kul Tiras said...

Interesting.

The "Death should be hard" argument is great for the 10% who actually inflict damage on the masses, or the pets of the blue doughnut who get ships for free, but for people who aren't that awesome, and want to play without kissing the ring of others, not so great.

The problem with the "Death should hurt" mantra (And it's been around forever, way before Eve.) is that it heavily favors "safe" play. People flying T1 ships that are cheap to lose, people flying for others that buy them ships, etc.

"Safe" play promotes the blue doughnut.

On the flip side, if you go the route of more loss per kill, and somehow force bigger losses by encouraging expensive ships, you whittle your player base down to a fraction of what you have.

RPG MMORGS have already been down this road, which is why WoW is so "easy" now. They figured out the players, and if the players REALLY wanted intense competition, they would have stayed with first person shooters.

Anonymous said...

Older pilots should learn how to escape with their pod's.

As Funkybeacon said, why dont CCP just balance null/wh space so you have a chance to escape with your pod?

Free clones system would make dying trivial and exploatable. Why would I warp and save my life when I can take the podexpress to the station?

CFC Grunt said...

Podexing yourself was a thing anyway, the only reason not to do it was having an expensive egg. Even then, some people would self destruct, knowing that they will likely be caught in a camp and lose it.

Those costs weren't a risk vs. reward thing like implants are - going in with an expensive pod means you have an advantage in a fight, but if you lose it - you will risk losing more by losing the pod.

Those who say that now dying will be meaningless, I heartily encourage to embark on a drunken roam with HG Slaves in their heads.

lowrads said...

It's a pointless mechanic that mainly penalizes the inebriated. It would make more sense to just require players to buy a clone in order to respawn, but that would take more effort than just removing the system altogether.

Anonymous said...

+1 Zyan!

Although there are a lot of inconsisting game mechanics, the clone upgrading and SP loss always made perfect sense to me.
And it was an ISK sink too...
It would totally make sense if CCP simply implemented a popup warning window.
There used to be a time when there was no warning if you tried to clone jump into a clone on the same station, resulting in the destruction of the clone you jumped from...
Ah... how many Crystal sets were lost while trying to save them with a clone jump....
If the only way to lose SP will be flying T3 cruisers, then these cruisers should get some of the love back that had been taken away...
And I still don't understand why flying a tech1 frigate with high skillpoints should be bad for your clone?
Anyone can get podded, even when not flying a tech1 frigate...