Greedy Goblin

Friday, October 3, 2014

I don't want to make people mad, I want them to be embarrassed

A weird thing happened in the Burn Branch forum topic that Goons used to troll. The trolls who thrown insults or yelled "that does nothing" disappeared overnight, giving space to a new kind of Goon poster:

No, not a few dissenters appeared among the crowd of haters, the haters are fully gone and all that's left is these Goons telling nice things. This obviously shows coordinated action, lead from above. The haters were told to shut up, Lucas Kell was probably sent to shoot a dickstar POS alone in a bombless bomber to keep him away from the topic and these "nice Goons" were ordered to appear. This is either the most hilarious recruitment scam attempt or they really want to recruit me. The latter isn't complete nonsense, they recruited an NC. director recently.

But neither can work, because the "nice Goons" are wrong. I'm not like them. I don't want to make people mad. Being mad is blaming someone else for a bad thing happened to you. A typical ganked miner who provide tears to CODE is mad, because he believes his ship was lost because of the ganker. They are mad because they can't hit back to the ganker, so all they can do is raaaaaaage.

I don't think the ganker is responsible for the lost ship. An untanked ship is a kill waiting to happen, you can't blame the individual who actually claims it. If he'd pass, someone else would get it. It's like leaving a $100 bill on the road and blame the first guy around for taking it. If only he wouldn't wake up today you'd still have the money, right? The owner is responsible for the gank, he placed the loot pinata in the space, he ignored the easily available guides and he went AFK.

When you realize that you lost because you were dumb, you are embarrassed. I want morons and slackers to realize that all their fails is their fault. It rarely happens. I also want socials to realize that the misfortune of M&S is because of their own fails and they deserve no help. That happens more often.

In this quest I can't cooperate with Goons who admittedly derive their power from intoxicated idiots. Since the average Goon isn't better than the average gank target, they can only attribute the loss to the only difference: the victim was not a Goon. Which - considering that joining attempts end in a scam - isn't something the victim can fix, so all he can do is be mad at Goons.

You can give the paplink to Lucas now, your plan cannot work! As I'm fighting dumbness, I must defeat the most visible and loud ones who actually wear dumbness as a badge of honor: the Goons.

23 comments:

Anonymous said...

By my count, your reason for attacking has changed at least 4 times since you started grr goons

* They are "racist"
* They are "not newbie friendly"
* They call for people to kill themselves
* They are dumb

Tell us Gevlon, when are you going to admit the real reason: you wanted to join them but couldn't deal with their entry requirement because you believe that because you think the world should be a meritocracy, anyone without that belief is wrong.

Gevlon said...

???
I "admitted" that a year ago when I started the project: http://greedygoblin.blogspot.hu/p/we-gank-because-we-care.html

All the things you listed are aspects of "not being meritocracy". In different posts I focused on different aspects, but the underlying reason is that they aren't a meritocracy.

And yes, everyone who don't believe in meritocracy is wrong, and practically always evil too, since everyone need to classify people and without meritocracy all he has is race, gender, religion, nationality.

Anonymous said...

"since everyone need to classify people"
Wrong. People like you need to classify people. Normal people don't. People are just people to many of us, regardless of race, gender, religion, nationality, metal state, etc. Meritocracies notoriously reward people for being exceptional compared to a set standard, and people below that standard are rejected. The real world understands that not everyone excels in the same way and at the same things, and not everyone starts off on a level pegging.

Anonymous said...

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/andrewlilico/100024795/meritocracy-is-an-appalling-idea-that-no-one-believes-in-even-though-everyone-claims-to/

Interesting read there about meritocracy being evil itself.

Gevlon said...

@Anonymous: does your country accept immigrants without asking questions and give them citizenship? If not, than it classifies people based on citizenship (which is likely based on nationality) and the "normal people" in the country agrees it.

Anonymous said...

"since everyone need to classify people"

The need to classify people is for people to feel better about themselves. There is no actual need to classify people since that implies that people aren't individuals and don't have their own thoughts and feelings.

Gevlon said...

The only reason we call some people "doctors" and "policemen" and "pensioners" is to feel better about ourselves. Totally.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous,

Everyone needs to classify people as soon as reaching a goal is required. As example, if you have a company and want to hire someone for a difficult project you are definitely going to classify your applicants based on their experience, skills and attitude.

It's definitely not a matter of "feeling good", it's the pragmatic requirement of finding someone able to "do it" and to contribute the most. Since not everyone can (and less and less the more difficult the task), you have to classify and try to get someone from the "can do it" group.

Anonymous said...

"I must defeat the most visible and loud ones who actually wear dumbness as a badge of honor: the Goons."

I thought that was high sec miners, high sec mission runners, minerals I mine are free players, or are these now all ok because it is easy to pick the group that everyone hates and jump the bandwagon?

Gevlon said...

The "I mine for free" people are dumber but they aren't a marketing brand. Goons are. They openly shout: "competency not needed, just be one of us". An AFK miner at least doesn't recruit others into being stupid.

Anonymous said...

There is no actual need to classify people since that implies that people aren't individuals and don't have their own thoughts and feelings.

This always gets me. When did one of us living brainwashed willfully ignorant western individuals have an original thought? I don't mean the impulse to retweet a cat gif or patent a new amazon index to classify dildos by skinsoftness.

A big chunk of the population is M&S they are born that way. They had M&S parents and every friend and college they meet throughout their life are M&S. Everyday regurgitating the last night of tv shows, most viewed youtube vids or get into a heated conversation of some political irrelevant topic. Still somehow they are content and will die without EVER thinking at all!

There are only a handful of people throughout human history that think on their own. And in a nutshell they say that they are not free. Philosophy and thinking isn't wanted and I doubt that we as Humans had ever any interest of letting huge populations think for them selves.

Welcome to the cattle, moo~

Anonymous said...

That article makes a good point. Meritocracy is impossible, the parents will always imbue the child with some sort of privileged they didn't earn, or with disadvantages they didn't deserve. In this case the olders goons are the "parents" to the younger goons.

Anonymous said...

@anon
"A big chunk of the population is M&S they are born that way"
But what's an M&S? That's basically a label for "the people I don't like". What you consider to be a moron, other may no, and what you consider to be genius other people may think is moronic. Personally I don't think someone who enjoys mining is a moron for doing so, regardless of how inefficiently they do it.

It's like how sometimes a professional in a subject. They could go out and get a job in the field which pays a considerable amount, but sometimes they choose to work in a low paying job they enjoy within the field. They aren't morons for choosing lower pay, they simply have different priorities.

And whichever way you shape it, while you might be able to describe someone by what they do or how they act, most people have no place for labeling others purely on those traits. To suggest that everyone who doesn't believe in meritocracy is wrong and will purely label people based on rage, gender, etc is truly absurd. Meritocracy has been proven to be nigh impossible to achieve and by many would be considered the epitome of evil.

Anonymous said...

"The only reason we call some people "doctors" and "policemen" and "pensioners" is to feel better about ourselves. Totally."

That's some strawmanning you've got there.

Doctors and policemen are roles, they define the legal responsibilities of the individual.

Morons and Slackers do not define roles they serve to insult the person and to make the person doing the insult feel good.

Anonymous said...

But what's an M&S? That's basically a label for "the people I don't like".

the fight of dumbness. *sigh*

No. M&S stands for "Morons and Slackers". It has nothing to do with like or dislike.
A miner to its lowest ability plus inefficiency is in our RL society a slacker. If the slacker thinks he does the best to his ability he becomes a moron too.
When they love it, godspeed to them. That is what to a part i mean with "Still somehow they are content and will die without EVER thinking at all!"

I don't "believe" in a meritocracy we are born as cog into a meritocracy. It's capital based doctrine and turns most humans on autopilot. It only cascades further into our little virtual spaceship world where the same distinctions are valid.

Gevlon said...

"retard" and "burger flipper" are literal, explicit description of some people. They still have negative connotation due to obvious reasons.

Someone who fails to perform a task that is performed well by the majority of the population is either dumb or lazy.

Anonymous said...

"No. M&S stands for "Morons and Slackers". It has nothing to do with like or dislike.
A miner to its lowest ability plus inefficiency is in our RL society a slacker. If the slacker thinks he does the best to his ability he becomes a moron too."
Of course it does, since YOU are defining whether someone is a moron or a slacker. They might be a miner because they enjoy doing that while they work in real life, earning who knows what. You see them mining in the game, and you automatically assume everything else you know about them, you assume they don't know how to do anything else, and that they are doing that out of necessity. And inefficiency is not slacking, not even remotely.

"I don't "believe" in a meritocracy we are born as cog into a meritocracy. It's capital based doctrine and turns most humans on autopilot. It only cascades further into our little virtual spaceship world where the same distinctions are valid."
Well, you're dead wrong. If we were born into a meritocracy, we'd all be born equal, which we are not. Some are born rich, some are born into abject poverty. We'd then only gain from what we put in, which we are not, some parents give a lot to their kids, some do not. We'd also only gain from society where we put in, which we don't, disabled people get benefits and assistance, people who end up homeless get housed, clothed and fed (where possible), while hardworking members of society generally get nothing back in terms of support.

With EVE, it's a game, designed for entertainment. Whatever you do that entertains you is as valid as anyone else's chosen activity. It certainly doesn't give anybody the right to insult and attack them because they disagree with their style of play, and has no reflection on the player behind the keyboard.

Gynax Gallenor said...

Gevlon,

In terms of a miner getting ganked, isn't it more rational to untank your Retriever (say) and just accept the random loss of your mining ship? You lose, what, 30-40 million, but more than make up for that in the additional yield when you aren't being ganked?

This does make the assumption that you are not being targetted, therefore increasing the probability of a gank.

Gevlon said...

@Gynax Gallenor: sure. But such miner should accept the cost of his operation instead of providing pages of tears to James 315.

Anonymous said...

"retard" and "burger flipper" are literal, explicit description of some people. They still have negative connotation due to obvious reasons.
You say this, but I'm curious, what is it that you do as a job that gives you the right to look down on people for flipping burgers? I've known people who have worked in fast food restaurants that are incredibly hard working people who just haven't been given the opportunity yet to do something more, but rather than collecting their unemployment benefits, they've chosen to take whatever job was available.

And to be fair, some burger flippers can be paid more than the average wage in your country.

Gevlon said...

I don't look down on burger flippers. I look down on welfare leeches. But average people look down on hard working but poor folk more. My point is that "average people" do that.

Anonymous said...

Of course it does, since YOU are defining whether someone is a moron or a slacker. They might be a miner because they enjoy doing that[..]

I assume the miner is afk with a possibility that he is a M&S. it's one of the game mechanics that promotes afk. And when he is alone in belt for weeks performing like the first week. well what is he then?


Well, you're dead wrong[..]

Yes as in every society is build on ONLY one structure like socialism, democracy or meritocracy. For sure. We have heritage that in whatever possible way gives advantage or disadvantage. Plus some flavors of doctrine like equality, don't discriminate, state needs to be secular and many more. There are some examples of both sides where what ever you do you will not rise or fall. Still that's not true for the majority. To hold onto to the privilege position they need to work. Hard.

Born as member of the white minority I'm considering myself very privileged. My upbringing put me into many labor heavy lowpay jobs so, as they said, I should decide for myself what to do later on (It was not my decision!). To have a average top job without the families name to carry me, it means long hour work. It's ridiculous how many irrelevant achievements have to be shown on the end of a quarter. Just to be worth of the position and not get kicked out. From my point of view the money-side of live is very performance based. Just a few steps to put civil service under the same pressure.


With EVE, it's a game, designed for entertainment. Whatever you do that entertains you is as valid as anyone else's chosen activity. It certainly doesn't give anybody the right to insult and attack them because they disagree with their style of play, and has no reflection on the player behind the keyboard.

So. A painting doesn't reflect the artist? that's very interesting. It's a matter of taste and everybody is a winner as long as he enjoys himself. Pointing to my first comment.

Anonymous said...

Because I needed to Google it, I'm sure others will too:

mer·i·toc·ra·cy

ˌmerəˈtäkrəsē/

noun

government or the holding of power by people selected on the basis of their ability.

a society governed by meritocracy.

plural noun: meritocracies

a ruling or influential class of educated or skilled people.