Greedy Goblin

Wednesday, August 27, 2014

Goons in the closet

The ratting data made it clear what Goons are: carebears. They farm harder than anyone in the game. Literally harder than equal amount of renters who pay for the privilege of not doing PvP.

Before you'd consider it a cheap Goon bashing, it's not. I don't see problems in being a "carebear". I don't think making ISK is "dishonorable" or "low". I'm making ISK. While I'm having much more effective ISK-making methods, I accept that for a casual player with 1-2 accounts and random play time, undocking and hitting the nearest anom is the optimal way of making ISK. I don't hate them for ratting.

I hate them for not spearheading the "fleetbear" ethos, but on the contrary, outscream the "elite PvP" crowd in spewing insults to the "carebears". For going to pogroms against "highsec carebears". For taking highsec POCOs without any intention to use them, just to give "carebears" a finger (this was a great idea). For demanding their minions to click paplinks but not accepting ISK donations as forms of contribution to the coalition. They never admitted being carebears, I caught them. They are like those loud, obnoxious homophobic activists who are caught being gay.

Genuinely "straight" PvP-ers don't hate carebears, but seek mutually beneficial relationship with them: renting. When Goons were finally forced to open renting space, they did it with openly insulting their renters and using every mistake and fine print to kill them. No wonder they flee.

If only Goons could come out of the closet, accept what they are and welcome their fellow carebears, they would not only be much happier, but also much more powerful. ISK is already their power source. They should admit it openly.

One way or another they will. Either by embracing the idea, or by being driven away from their famed ratting land.


PS: Goon minion 1.5B carebear boat and 5B pod lost to PL renters.
Real PvP-ers on the other hand bravely engaged a CFC capital ship in cruisers and emerged victorious!
Finally: they should have stayed in Branch ratting.

19 comments:

Anonymous said...

They don't hate ratters or bears. They hate everyone not goon (including their allies). What you actually do in the game is just used as a stick to beat you with, whether "carebear" or "elite pvp" or "station gamer" or "irrelevant wormhole player" doest matter.

A real life analogy would be more like Israel in space. Someone who lived in Brooklyn for 50 years can just swan in and do whatever they like simply for being Jewish (SA forum member), on the other hand Arabs get put in ghettos and get missiles on their house (pubbie who finds the game through steam, magazine ad etc).

Anonymous said...

its their culture. it doesn't matter if their reality is in direct conflict. Consider most americans think of themselves as democratic and thats their culture. Despite the fact there is zero evidence of a democracy in the US. A republic? yes. A select representation? yes. Democracy? nope never has been and never will be. Same here the goons hate stuff based on culture but in fact all they hate they embrace with not only with open arms but a willingness that makes a renter look down right weak.

CFC Grunt said...

I don't think you understand what a carebear is. Merely ratting does not make you a carebear.

"Carebear" is a term that applies to people that attempt to avoid the risk of PvP and its consequences at all costs - often living in hisec, petitioning their losses etc. When killed, they tend to burst into tears in local about how mean you are.

Goons may be ratting, but - given their presence in nullsec, actual losses and participation in fleet combat - they're not carebears.

Anonymous said...

I've never seen goons going the "elite pvp" road. Quite the opposite - they take pride in putting down such elitists. Where do you get your claims?

Foo said...

@CFCgrunt.

I am called a carebear.

I run corps in wormholes (plural intended). During a hostil eviction attempt I successfully organised both an evacuation of assests under hostile fire and then a reverse evicton of the enemy POS.

I tend to avoid fleet PVP.

What do you consider the CFC definition of carebear?

Is the definition narrow when applied to 'us' but wide when applied to 'them'?

Anonymous said...

of course they rat harder than anyone else based on your data, they have almost the entire alliance packed tightly into that little region.

If any other region in nullsec had that kind of population density then they may beat the goons.

Anonymous said...

This is a deeply insulting post, and I'd have expected better of you.

In your analogy you say they are like gay people. They. are. not. You just need to follow a goon local for a while, and you will see how they see homosexuallity.

Putting those bigots on the same level as their victims just to make a point about how much of a carbear you think they are is relativating the hate problem that they are creating towards the LGBT community within and outside of this game.

Please don't do that. Find a better analogy. You should be smart enough for that.

Anonymous said...

@Foo
Is the definition narrow when applied to 'us' but wide when applied to 'them'?
See here. The definition is based on people's reaction to PvP. Sure, some people throw it around at everyone that shoots a rat, but I think we can all tell the difference between an actual carebear and someone just engaging in a spot of PvE. I've read your blog and I'm not sure I would call you a carebear, though thinking about it I really don't know what your views on PvP are.

Gevlon said...

@Anonymous: I'm not relativating. I believe that the hate of the Goons against "carebear pubbies" is equally bad and harmful as the hate of the bigots against LGBT people. You should remember how their leader rallied his people on stage to bully someone into suicide.

I know that finding out that many of the loudest bigots are actually gay is hurting to the LGBT people, but these are facts. Those bigots were literally caught with a prostitute doing gay action, just like Goons were caught doing what they berate day and night.

Anonymous said...

Although I couldn't care less about Goons as they absolutely have no impact on my play style, nor do they have on empire space at all, except for JB, they are carebears and Gevlon is right to call them racist because they are.

they are carebears because their leaders have to pay them and supply them with ships for pvp. It is a myth that they do not care for the losses, you cannont care for losses that you do not pay for.
If your ship get blown up in a battle and you get the money bacl via SRP, then you do not lose any value. Except maybe the time of fun you could have had, had you be not so dumb as to get killed so early.

So, yes, they are racist carebears and that's the end of it. Idk and Idc whether there are other racist groups in EVE (i.e. Russians), they cannot influence me as I have found my niche. Nice to know how limited renter activities are in Goonspace, so, if I ever had to look for a renting system, sorry, no tax from me to goons..

Anonymous said...

So you hate goons because of how mean they are against high sec dwellers?
Yet in your selfsame graphs you've often shown that goons have extremely little impact on highsec dwellers.
Whereas groups like CODE, who make it their business to actively harass PVE'ers are somehow never mentioned in your blog.
Maybe your reasons to hate goons are not quite as altruistic as you claim?

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous
Although I couldn't care less about Goons as they absolutely have no impact on my play style, nor do they have on empire space at all, except for JB, they are carebears and Gevlon is right to call them racist because they are.
So why exactly are they racists? I love how you lead of by saying how they have no impact yon you, then roll into a tirade of how carebear like and racist they are, citing no actual evidence of same.

I'm not one for calling people racists unless I've seen evidence of that, and I've not seen them being racist at all.

It is a myth that they do not care for the losses, you cannot care for losses that you do not pay for.
This makes no sense. If it's a myth that they do not care, then they must care, but if they cannot care because they don't pay for them, then they can't care therefore it's not a myth. So which is it? Do they or do they not care when you blow them up?

Nice to know how limited renter activities are in Goonspace, so, if I ever had to look for a renting system, sorry, no tax from me to goons..
You are probably too poor to rent anyway, so they probably don't care. And they way they run CSAAs in genius. They don't allow their renters to build titans, so they can't sell them on to their enemies. Meanwhile, NC and PL renters can build and sell titans, on top of which, for a small sum of isk, goons can rent from their enemies, building their own titans in enemy space knowing that the only people that would and could attack them (the goons themselves) won't. I'd pay a few billion a month for the ability to build titans under the protection of my enemies.

Anonymous said...

CFC pro pvp skills on display they attacked a region with caracals and just kept reshipping till they took the field. They started with named ships, then just numbers, then just XXXX caracal the default. I saw a kill board that had the same person on 4 times from the same fight. There was no pvp involved it was simple as "well if we die enough they will get tired of killing us and leave"

I have even seen a fleet of 200 cfc bomberless bombers safe up when a fleet of 20 assualt frigs landed on grid it was funny as heck. sure the assault frigs would have killed 3 or 4 bombers each but come on 200 vs 20?

Even their "camp groups" will avoid anything remotely approaching equal power. Gank a freighter? yup Gank a destroyer? nope not a chance.

CFC wouldn't know what pvp was if it bit them in the face and pissed in their cheerio's

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous
CFC pro pvp skills on display they attacked a region with caracals and just kept reshipping till they took the field.
Did they win though? Op success.

I have even seen a fleet of 200 cfc bomberless bombers safe up when a fleet of 20 assualt frigs landed on grid it was funny as heck. sure the assault frigs would have killed 3 or 4 bombers each but come on 200 vs 20?
Lets see... a fast moving frigate designed to kill frigates vs a bunch of slow frigates designed to hit large sig radius ships and structures. I'd say good call on their part.

CFC wouldn't know what pvp was if it bit them in the face and pissed in their cheerio's
I don't think I've ever seen the CFC claim to be good at PvP in that way, quite the opposite. But they do win the strategic objectives, which is pretty much all that matters in the long run.

Anonymous said...

@ anon 27 August, 2014 17:40:

It is a myth about them not caring for losses, because they have to be given ships and being reimbursed or else no pvp action would take place.

If they really wouldn't care, there wouldn't be the need to give them the ships in which they blow up so hilariously...

In that regard, they might not differ a lot from other 0.0 entities, but that has always been the way EVE worked. PVE players whom Peeweepee-ers look down to have to finance SRP becuase else the peeveepee-ers would have to rat to and would not have the time to blow up their ships and random others...
And I do not need to explain the term racist to you, google is your friend there, after reading several official anouncements published on TMC, it becomes clear that they look down on nongoons and mock them.
If that is just a joke and "roleplaying", well then they are EVE racists only and not in RL too, but I never made the statement that Goons were RL racists as Goons do not exist in RL. There they are just the M&S Gevlon writes about.
Except for the leadership cadre, these people are well organized and disciplined, even if some of them can't hold their liquor, but hey, one doesn't need to be a man to lead a virtual entity...

Anonymous said...

I believe that the hate of the Goons against "carebear pubbies" is equally bad and harmful as the hate of the bigots against LGBT people.
Wait, what? You think that goons RP'ing assholes in internet spaceships is anything like bigots against LGBT people? You've jumped the shark right there Gevlon.

You should remember how their leader rallied his people on stage to bully someone into suicide.


For starters, he didn't. It was hardly a rally or call to arms. Secondly within 24 hours he apologised, he gave the guy all his isk, he resigned from the CSM, he forfeited his position on the next CSM and accepted his ban. You can't keep dining out on something when the man has paid his dues. Especially when it isn't even close to being relevant.

BamaElite said...

Wow! only took me a little over 6 months in eve, 3 weeks in null and a few billion isk to get mentioned on a page of The Greedy goblin. I will have to say I have made several poor choices in eve coming from fps games, it is a lot different here for sure :) That loss I will have to say hurt deeply, I had that Tengu for about 2 months and I would say I got my money from it. I had just moved my Tengu to that system and that was my first trip out with it, being new to null I should not have even had that ship out to begin with. I am pretty sure that was a big wake up call for me and now I have a much better awareness of my surroundings, maybe you won't be seeing anymore of those juicy killmails from me for a while :)

Anonymous said...

@anonymous: "If they really wouldn't care, there wouldn't be the need to give them the ships in which they blow up so hilariously..."

Why not? if they cared about the losses, they would not let them be blown up hilariously surely?

"We really want you to keep your ships, we won't replace any you lose" instead of "Throw them at anything, we have an endless stream of them"

CFC Grunt said...

@Foo

By the old definition, you are not a carebear - since you accept the risk of PvP, live in dangerous space and if threatened can react instead of bursting into tears in local and threatening to petition the attackers.

As a general guideline - if you think you are entitled to safety in any part of space because reasons - you are a carebear.

I'm actually pretty comfortable with others calling us carebears for instance. It's a bit of false advertising, it draws groups like Battlement Coalition to our space and we get some free content without even deploying.