Greedy Goblin

Saturday, March 29, 2014

Saturday extra moron collection

The GRR project yet again provided a collection of morons: EVE is often called a sociopath simulator. But you aren't bound to do evil. I mean doing evil to evil ones is good. So come and join, let's kill griefer Goons and those who obey them!

18 comments:

Arrendis said...

I mean doing evil to evil ones is good.

Careful. "The ends justify the means" is pretty universally understood to be not amoral, but immoral, and evil, as philosophies go.

Smith said...

Just out of interest:

You don't write anymore of what you do in the game. Since I'm not keeping tabs if you log in (with all the alts on all the accounts)... What are you personally up to?

Or are you keeping a low profile so you do not get kicked out of... whatever? Again, like the wormhole I mean. (I really enjoyed reading all stories about that, all the sides, all the details. It made up for a great little clip of what makes Eve such an interesting game.

Gevlon said...

I would rather call it "taste their own medicine". Remember, I did NOT call for a "kill the last Goon because they are evil" campaign.

I published clear terms of peace: http://greedygoblin.blogspot.hu/2014/02/there-will-be-no-goons.html

If they stop being evil, I instantly stop the anti-evil campaign.

Gevlon said...

@Smith: I make ISK from trading. I'm doing the same trade that I've been doing for 2 years.

Anonymous said...

"If they stop being evil, I instantly stop the anti-evil campaign."

Evil as defined by yourself.

This is a well defined and utilised tactic. "These other guys are evil because I say so, we must get rid of them/institute a regime change, then the Eve universe will be a better nicer place"

It is also hardly a logical discussion, relying instead on pathos and hyperbole.

It seems to be the method which brings you most happiness, and enjoyment in eve, so, then I wonder, who is next on your "They are evil" list, if you succeed, and eradicate every goon from eve, and they all move onto another game?

Gevlon said...

Calling Goons evil is far from being my lone opinion.

They perform actions that have no other purpose than making others mad/sad.

Arrendis said...

They perform actions that have no other purpose than making others mad/sad.

Which is different from every BlOps gang and solo cloaky hunter, ganker, or small group of gankers how?

Sure, you can claim you were doing it to 'educate' people, but you're the one saying 'intent cannot be known' in your posts over the last two days.

Yet here you are, determining the Goons' intent, and taking the stance that we should all take your claims as true... just because.

They do things for the same reason everyone does things in Eve: to have fun, or to make the things they have fun doing more feasible (really, ice mining isn't fun, but buying my carrier was).

Anonymous said...

"They perform actions that have no other purpose than making others mad/sad."

Which you have never established as particularly endemic to solely goons. In fact, you have been paying marmite, a group who engages in similar activity, to kill them. This is the point people have been trying to make to you for months now: There is nothing particularly unique about goon behavior in eve.

Dreddit recruits out of game, scamming is not a unique activity to any entity, neither is being insular against outsiders. Even the notion of evaluation is a misnomer: Goonwaffe is the low bar by which all over cfc entities are compared, and an inability to meet such a low standard is a tough one indeed.

Your terms will never be accepted. You could get the whole of eve against them, and they would still laugh all the way back to syndicate. This is why the term Grr Goons exists: It characterizes individuals, such as yourself, who have no self awareness of the hypocrisy involved in being only mad at goons for doing things almost everyone does.

Gevlon said...

@Arrendis: killings ships in a ship PvP game is not griefing. Goons are NOT griefers because of the destroyed ships. They are griefers because of the subesquent tear collection, and their open philosophy of "Goons are better than pubbies just because".

@Anonymous: I've never said only Goons do this. Goons are simply the largest entity doing it. Take it this way:
- Joe nobody in a Southern small town pub telling something racist: no one cares
- CEO of a multi-billion company telling the very same words: international scandal

In my personal opinion NOHO is much more despicable than Goons. But Goons own half the galaxy, while 99% of EVE never heard of NOHO, for a reason.

Anonymous said...

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=22695574
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=22689726
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=22695124
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=22686678
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=22685810
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=22684360
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=22690131
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=22688201
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=22686677
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=22685814
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=22685814
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=22684393

That was only just from yesterday. Do try to keep up.

Gevlon said...

Keep up with random ganking? Kiddo, I've ganked solo half as much as whole Miniluv.

Our kills are Goon and servant kills. Try to link your kills on us!

Arrendis said...

Gevlon:
They are griefers because of the subesquent tear collection, and their open philosophy of "Goons are better than pubbies just because".

I've never said only Goons do this. Goons are simply the largest entity doing it.

And then how do you justify getting General Lemming to specifically leave N3 alone? You know, another group that yes, does go ganking, and refers to outsiders - including you, specifically - as subhuman?

That's not an isolated occurrence.

If this is what you oppose - and there's a case to be made that opposing that kind of elitism is not a bad thing - then why protect it at the same time?

Gevlon said...

I've never heard N3 calling anyone subhuman. Yes, I know that PL took Dirk Action, who is probably equal to Erotica 1. But having bad eggs is different from having official griefing campaigns.

Arrendis said...

N3 members consistently refer to people outside their ranks - especially anyone not flying a capital ship - as 'subhuman'. It doesn't take much to look through the comments on EN24, Kugu, or TMDC to find them, man.

It's not one or two bad apples. It's the culture they engender. Goons only call you 'pubbie'. Do you object when you get called 'male' by someone who's female?

'Pubbie' only means 'not Goon'. That's it. If you take something else away from it, that's you reading into the meaning. That's on you, not them.

Goons don't say they - individually, as people, and certainly not as players - are better than pubbies. Goons openly declare themselves terrible at this game, and take a great amount of glee in mocking one another whenever they demonstrate that.

They say they're better organized, and they are. They say there's strength in numbers, and there is. They say the leadership is good at what it does, and it is.

They say they're stronger than the enemy, and when the CFC commits fully... it's hard to argue with that. The trick is getting that full commitment.

As for 'organized campaigns'... do you think N3/PL didn't participate in Burn Jita? Do you think they didn't go hunting during the Ice Interdiction?

The Goons are just willing to do so openly, on characters who don't hide their affiliation. Besides, didn't you just say killings ships in a ship PvP game is not griefing?

If killing ships isn't griefing, then how is Burn Jita, or the Ice Interdictions, griefing? Especially since they're announced in advance, giving highsec characters plenty of warning to stockpile wares, use scouts, and generally play it safe?

If it's about harvesting tears, I'm going to have to again suggest you check kugu, and reddit. N3's hands are in no way clean. Nor are TEST's - and they spend a lot more time in/around highsec than most CFC members do.

So why the particular hate against Goons?

Gevlon said...

See Tuesday post about it.

But about sub-capitals: that's indeed being bad player. Calling them "subhumans" is bad "sub-par players" or "scrubs" is correct.

Arrendis said...

But about sub-capitals: that's indeed being bad player. Calling them "subhumans" is bad "sub-par players" or "scrubs" is correct.

Why?

Why is someone 'sub-par' if they prefer faster, more kinetic, more exciting gameplay, like interceptors? Or fulfilling a dedicated role that they enjoy in a fleet, like flying logistics or e-war ships?

Capital ships are slow. They are ponderous. They are useful for certain things, but they are not exciting or particularly fun to use unless all you care about is the size of your penile surrogate.

Do they make structure grinding easier? Only for the people shooting the actual structure. Capitals require a support fleet be available, be it subcapitals sitting on a titan, or even more capitals waiting for possible escalation.

What makes someone who prefers not to fly the slow, boring shit 'sub-par'?

(full disclosure: I have a carrier. I used it during the hellcamp, and at other times in the recent past. I look forward to using it again - when appropriate. I haven't sold my subcaps.)

Gevlon said...

B-R got into the real world media. Frig brawls aren't even mentioned in blogs.

So the community say: capitals > subcapitals.

Arrendis said...

A)Last time I checked, part of what made fights like B-R and 6VDT (which, other than some dreads at the end, was all subcaps, remember?) getting non-EVE media attention is that those media outlets aren't part of 'the community'.

B)Media attention (even within the community, like blogs) != Fun, enjoyable content. Usually, things get commented on because they stand out, because they're unusual. This doesn't make them better, this only makes them less commonplace. The vast majority of PVP kills do not involve capitals at all. I would bet that the percentage of PVP kills attributable to capitals is significantly smaller than the percentage of capital ships used in PVP combat - they are simply not, isk for isk, pulling their own weight. Isk paid (for the ship) vs Isk killed, you're probably best off in a cruiser.

C)Not to put too fine a point on it, but your argument is a variation on 'well, all these people can't be wrong', and let's face it, you're the one whose entire blog is dedicated to just how many 'morons & slackers' there are out there.

Most people are wrong, more often than they're right. Appealing to the authority of mass opinion is just asking to be wrong along with them.