Saturday, December 29, 2012

Dead morons of the week

  • MasL is back! Famous for his 20B Machariel losses, he is on the quest to lose "unorthodox-fit" expensive ships. I can't even imagine what this wanted to be, but it clearly didn't work.
  • This one doesn't look like a (big) moron after his fitting. The fun part is his 4B cargo that includes a deadspace invulnerablity field while he has T2 fitted. Hint: they don't work unfitted!
  • This armor and shield tanked 6B cloaky hauler didn't work either
  • So you cynoed you JF to the docking ring of a lowsec system neighboring highsec and packed everything into the normal freighter. So far so good. Then you undock the freighter, insta-warp it away from the station and land on the gate. You can't really lose it. One of the steps was missing here. By the way if he didn't fail the lowsec part, he could still lose it in highsec because 6B cargo is usually suicide ganked.
  • I can't stop being amused on badly tanked bling Moroses with 73% damage taken from rats.
  • 16B freighter under wardec. I'm struggling with figuring out how could this creature get 16B.
  • 6B cloaky hauler with only cargohold expanders in Jita where the normal traffic decloaks it.
  • Standard, boring 7B freigher in Niarja
  • Wardecced JF in highsec.
  • While the kill value is overestimated (it's about 5B), having 5B in an untanked T1 industrial needs a special kind of stupid.
  • 5B, zero buffer ratting Tengu in Jita.
  • Untanked normal hauler carrying a Guardian-Vexor, a rare ship. Loss value is over the price of a titan.
  • 9B zero buffer ratting Nightmare
They say that EVE forces stupid to learn or leave. Well, it seems there is lot of work to be done left.


Anonymous said...

Taking issue with a few things.

1) You have a problem with a 5 billion isk Moros? why? because it has deadspace mods on it? Is that your reason for complaining? J152117 is a C6 system. Sleepers in C6s hit *very hard*. It is not uncommon to lose capital ships in sleeper sites (all it really takes is a momentary derp by someone - an early escalation and full room agro and stuff dies). It is therefore not uncommon to fit dreads (or any caps in WHs for that matter) deadspace. The difference for a deadspace mod on a cruiser might not be much but on a moros it is a rather large amount of tank. The real thing to pick on here though isn't the tank is the emphasis on painting and tracking - in a site you usually have loki's to take care of this for you (webbing the sleeper battleships down to nearly a stand still so the dreadnaught can blap it)

2) Moving a JF in highsec is NOT on the face of it a bad idea. You can cyno *out* of Highsec (but not into it). The best place to be caught entering lowsec is on the inbound gate. An outbound gate with an instawarp will not cause you any problems. Why the obsession with switching to a normal freighter which is most assuredly going to die in a fire on the way back into lowsec? What is the basis for this "advice" not to fly JFs in highsec?

3) your assertion that "6B cargo is usually suicide ganked" (emphasis mine) is based on what exactly? the fact that there are 6b+ freighter ganks? This speaks nothing of the majority. You are suggesting that loading up 6b in a freighter will get you killed "usually" do you know that this isn't just a 1 in 10 occurrence? or 1 in 100?

4) PvE ('ratting' ships) generally do NOT fit a buffer. Because they generally DO NOT fly with remote rep. Buffer is only useful for remote repping gangs. It buys the logistics time to refill the hit points. This usually involves proofing a ship against being one volleyed. Active or PST PvE ships are fairly common place. The moronic thing here is the officer mods - NOT the lack of buffer. They died because they were scanned carrying officer mods on board (and possibly because flying a nightmare is a juicy target painted on your back).

Gevlon said...

My problem with that Moros is exactly that he had 3 lows with non-tank, one of them could have been in the mid if he hadn't fill mids with stupid.

JFs cost 7B empty and can be killed by 1.5B worth of Taloses. Also, JFs have to be in player corps to be able to dock in nullsec.

A freighter can be killed by 1B worth of battlecruisers. So a 2B cargo freighter gank is on average the breaking point. A 6B freighter provides 2B net profit on average. Of course you can get lucky and no one hits you. But I wouldn't put 6B into the hands of blind luck.

You should always expect PvP in EVE and have enough buffer against a few Tornados. "few" depends on your price.

Anonymous said...

The JF may cost 7B empty and can be killed by 1.5b worth of taloses - but your entire argument is predicated on the fact that there are *always* 1.5b worth of taloses waiting for you (there isn't). Also being in a player corp is no big deal - there are NPC nulsec markets to trade in and lowsec markets for that matter. I would suggest that MOST jump freighters get away with flying in highsec (and my position is as equally unprovable as yours). Being in a player corp is only a problem if you are wardeced. If you are wardeced you have 24 hours to get your ship docked. You can move a lot of stuff in 24 hours. Being in a player corp really doesn't matter. (note redfrog have rules requiring out of corp freighter alts primarily because redfrog itself is a target - everyone knows their ships are loaded with lots of goodies which means lazy-mode ganking)

Same with your freighter 2b/6b thing - I suggest that the vast majority of 6b+ filled freighters make it through highsec *just fine* Not everyone gets ganked. Not everyone even gets scanned.

You should always expect PvP yes - but you also fit for purpose. Fitting for buffer when you don't have logistics. It is absolutely pointless to do so. If you are solo, and ratting, you fit PST or active tank. Sure you'll get ganked by a PvP fit ship once in a while, but you will generally still be in front (even with moronic purple ratting ships)

Anonymous said...

I don't see your issue with the Sin.

Its main source of damage have to be drones (4 turret hardpoints don't leave any other choice) and ever since the introduction of drone damage amplifiers that does strongly suggest a shield tank.
Flying solo in a battleship the increased velocity and agility offered by a shield tank is also attractive - he will have to chase many targets a bit until his neutralizers have done their work.

The other mid slots (MWD, point, web, cap booster) are unspectacular.

Damage Control and Drone Damage Amplifiers are to be expected.
The nanofibers are nice as you will often have to burn into web range (and are quite slow) and as it easier for you to stay in range without having to pulse your MWD.
It also allows you to get off the field faster (blops never want to stick around any longer than necessary after a gank) and further increases your movement speed under cloak.

On first glance it might seem stupid to pair nanofibers (penalty to structure hp) and a damage control.
However, tactically offlining modules with penalties is a staple of solo pvp - offline the MWD if you need more capacitor, offline the nanofibers before you hit structure, offline armor plates if you are trying to escape in strcuture (less mass = higher speedboost from AB/MWD), ...

Cloak and 2x Neutralizers in the highs are mandatory, the smartbomb is nice to have (against light tackle, missiles, drones).

At that point he lacks the CPU fit large blasters, so he has to go for medium guns.
As the battleship bonus only gives a bonus to large hybrid damage autocannons are the clearly superior choice.

Anonymous said...

"Untanked normal hauler carrying a Guardian-Vexor, a rare ship. Loss value is over the price of a titan."

I already debunked that ridiculous claim in the comments on the TM article.

Guardian Vexors did consistently trade in the 50-60b range during the past months.

That's a lot less than the price of a titan (titans go for 90-110b on the open market).

Anonymous said...

On the 75% (or so) damage from rats, you will often see this happen on wormhole site ganks. The group doing the ganking will usually wait until the site running team is down to the last trigger in the site before springing their trap. Sleepers switch targets often and hit very very hard so it makes sense for the attackers, if they can go undetected, to wait until the last moment to jump on their prey.

This moros has had more damage done to it by the sleepers then its fitted tank puts out meaning he has sat there for a while repping incoming damage from the sleepers. That is why the sleeper damage is so high. You see this in most site gank kills.

Anonymous said...

I've flown a JF for over 500 jumps into Low and NullSec this year and I know many JF pilots. And I hardly see any real "ganks" of JFs. Most are Wardecked attacks (avoidable), pilot errors (Bad bookmarks, bumps) or recklessness by flying over value with the wrong flight mode (afk up to 1B, all else ATK with a webber or/and emergency cyno).

Flying a normal freighter without support fleet in Low is stupid, even for one gate. You have to get it there first and back afterwards.

A trained JF pilot will have outs and tricks up his sleeve that are well kept secrets and extensive cyno networks

If you just look at BFL with around 100 contracts a day you can get some numbers for yourself, and they fly according to best practices, which includes slowboating through HiSec.

Finally, I can see a lot of potential pilot errors that may have happened but I wasn't on site for the kills. They might not be as moronic as you think but possibly oversights from the pilots or wardec trickery involved and even with experience there are to many variables unknown to make a judgement.

For many of the other kills I assume the same.

Except for that Vex, that was just sad.

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