Jester and his alliance started he "Scouring of the Shire" campaign, cleaning Syndicate from alliances that give them no good fights, either by docking up or by showing up with a logi-heavy team. They attack structures of the ones they find unworthy of living in Syndicate to stop them making money, making them leave. It goes well, which isn't surprising if you consider that the targets are picked exactly for not fighting. However it doesn't make Jester happy:
"The other interesting thing about this campaign so far is how it's both revitalized Rote Kapelle and recommited us to the alliance's mission not to hold sov. We're having to use so many tactics that are required for sov warfare: the blobs, the hell-camps, the alarm clock ops, the bridging. Most of it just isn't our style and never will be. This is and remains the biggest problem with this game, and the one that threatens to eventually wreck the whole thing. The number of EVE Online super-powers continues to dwindle from eight to six to four to three... and now threatens to become two over the next year. The blobs are getting bigger and bigger and bigger while ironically the targets for them dwindle. Where does that leave those few groups like Rote Kapelle that just have no interest in being part of that game?"
Poor Jester bumped into the same problem as my girlfriend, just from the other direction. Jester would like to participate in the gameplay but it's denied from him by others running from a fight unless they have a massively overwhelming fleet. Jester actively refuses to take part in the main storyline while my girlfriend simply sees no reason to participate.
Practically all PvP games offer "good fights". EVE is probably the worst place for looking for "good fights" because the defeated one must grind his losses back by doing PvE to be able to fight again. I guess half-life counterstrike wouldn't be so popular if the defeated team would be placed to a special map where they must shovel manure and carry boxes for half an hour to earn money for weapons. You must have a reason to do so. To go and do something you don't like to be able to fight again.
The powerblocks Jester denounces are formed around and against ideas. The Mittani, Makalu, Vince "FalconMate" Draken aren't just friendly/enemy players. Your reaction towards their internet persona is real (which hopefully you don't mix with real life person). The "no shits given" attitude of TEST and the "we are the elite" attitude of -A- aren't about pixels but real egos. The combatants of the South aren't grinding ISK to blow up pixels but to "silence that yelling ass Makalu" or "show those TEST retards who's the man". Something real.
The only sin the "Syndicate carebears" committed is being bad in a video game. They are doing PvE in the worst possible region for it. They should be in highsec, rented null or a C3. But I doubt Rote Kapelle members really dislike the "being bad in a video game" people. Therefore grinding them down isn't satisfying, as it's not real. You could do the same in Arathi Basin with much less grinding, bridging, alarm clocks.
The goals of Jester can't be reached. The evicted bad players will be replaced by even worse players. Or by nothing. If Jester and his friends have enough stamina, they can clean up Syndicate, making it the most desolate place in New Eden. But they can't get what they want, a group that will fight good. Because those people have much better options than blowing up battlecruisers just for the sake of it. They can fight for something real. Or they can just stay in highsec and watch their wallet grow. There are three ways to get into fights:
The moron of the week is Ice Slicer whose social thinking is absurd. "I would think less of myself" could be a motto for M&S.
Hard contender for the moron of the week position is the -A- FC who thought the HBC staging system is a good place for a battleship roam.
Saturday morning report: 182.1B Sent 2B to my nullsec industrial alt to start up some trading in Delve. (6.6 spent on main accounts, 7.1 spent on Logi/Carrier, 3.8 on Ragnarok, 3.3+2.0 on Rorqual, 3.4 on Nyx, 3.4 on Dread, 37.4 sent as gift)
Sunday morning report: 182.9B (6.6+0.5 spent on main accounts, 7.1 spent on Logi/Carrier, 3.8 on Ragnarok, 3.3+2.0 on Rorqual, 3.4 on Nyx, 3.4 on Dread, 37.4 sent as gift)
Monday morning report: 183.7B (6.6+0.5 spent on main accounts, 7.1 spent on Logi/Carrier, 3.8 on Ragnarok, 3.3+2.0 on Rorqual, 3.4 on Nyx, 3.4 on Dread, 37.4 sent as gift)
"The other interesting thing about this campaign so far is how it's both revitalized Rote Kapelle and recommited us to the alliance's mission not to hold sov. We're having to use so many tactics that are required for sov warfare: the blobs, the hell-camps, the alarm clock ops, the bridging. Most of it just isn't our style and never will be. This is and remains the biggest problem with this game, and the one that threatens to eventually wreck the whole thing. The number of EVE Online super-powers continues to dwindle from eight to six to four to three... and now threatens to become two over the next year. The blobs are getting bigger and bigger and bigger while ironically the targets for them dwindle. Where does that leave those few groups like Rote Kapelle that just have no interest in being part of that game?"
Poor Jester bumped into the same problem as my girlfriend, just from the other direction. Jester would like to participate in the gameplay but it's denied from him by others running from a fight unless they have a massively overwhelming fleet. Jester actively refuses to take part in the main storyline while my girlfriend simply sees no reason to participate.
Practically all PvP games offer "good fights". EVE is probably the worst place for looking for "good fights" because the defeated one must grind his losses back by doing PvE to be able to fight again. I guess half-life counterstrike wouldn't be so popular if the defeated team would be placed to a special map where they must shovel manure and carry boxes for half an hour to earn money for weapons. You must have a reason to do so. To go and do something you don't like to be able to fight again.
The powerblocks Jester denounces are formed around and against ideas. The Mittani, Makalu, Vince "FalconMate" Draken aren't just friendly/enemy players. Your reaction towards their internet persona is real (which hopefully you don't mix with real life person). The "no shits given" attitude of TEST and the "we are the elite" attitude of -A- aren't about pixels but real egos. The combatants of the South aren't grinding ISK to blow up pixels but to "silence that yelling ass Makalu" or "show those TEST retards who's the man". Something real.
The only sin the "Syndicate carebears" committed is being bad in a video game. They are doing PvE in the worst possible region for it. They should be in highsec, rented null or a C3. But I doubt Rote Kapelle members really dislike the "being bad in a video game" people. Therefore grinding them down isn't satisfying, as it's not real. You could do the same in Arathi Basin with much less grinding, bridging, alarm clocks.
The goals of Jester can't be reached. The evicted bad players will be replaced by even worse players. Or by nothing. If Jester and his friends have enough stamina, they can clean up Syndicate, making it the most desolate place in New Eden. But they can't get what they want, a group that will fight good. Because those people have much better options than blowing up battlecruisers just for the sake of it. They can fight for something real. Or they can just stay in highsec and watch their wallet grow. There are three ways to get into fights:
- Joining a nullsec empire and fight in huge fleets. The enemy must show up or they lose their space.
- Lowsec piracy, highsec ganking: bringing the fight to people who don't want it.
- RvB: consensual PvP
The moron of the week is Ice Slicer whose social thinking is absurd. "I would think less of myself" could be a motto for M&S.
Hard contender for the moron of the week position is the -A- FC who thought the HBC staging system is a good place for a battleship roam.
Saturday morning report: 182.1B Sent 2B to my nullsec industrial alt to start up some trading in Delve. (6.6 spent on main accounts, 7.1 spent on Logi/Carrier, 3.8 on Ragnarok, 3.3+2.0 on Rorqual, 3.4 on Nyx, 3.4 on Dread, 37.4 sent as gift)
Sunday morning report: 182.9B (6.6+0.5 spent on main accounts, 7.1 spent on Logi/Carrier, 3.8 on Ragnarok, 3.3+2.0 on Rorqual, 3.4 on Nyx, 3.4 on Dread, 37.4 sent as gift)
Monday morning report: 183.7B (6.6+0.5 spent on main accounts, 7.1 spent on Logi/Carrier, 3.8 on Ragnarok, 3.3+2.0 on Rorqual, 3.4 on Nyx, 3.4 on Dread, 37.4 sent as gift)
5 comments:
there are more than 3 ways to get fights. In your experience there are 3, yet you ignore the multitude of other ways people gets fights.
I'll take one from my experience. Go live in a wormhole, where the big 0.0 alliances cannot bring their blob to bare, and if they were to bring a sizable force in would run up against fleet concepts where the cheapest ships could pay for a handful of your much vaunted napocs, in an environment where fleet sizes dictate that "elite pvp" does have a place and individual pilot skill is valued above blobbing and grinding structures.
Thats number 4 way of getting PvP. belonging to a mercenary corp is another (reasonably sure Noir. get plenty of fights all over eve, and get paid handsomely to do it).
Rooks and Kings are another example of how to get fights (but not quite sure how to categorize it) - they run in relatively small high skill point gangs (compared to the customary 0.0 blob) with highly skilled pilots and take fights wherever they find them, fighting out numbered most of the time and doing their fair share of winning.
Another way is roaming gangs (from small frigate roams to larger armor roams) - hoping to run into other roamers, or get mess up someones day.
Bombers bar - there is another form of PvP which doesn't meet your 3 requirements of Consensual RvB, Ganking or large 0.0 bloc war.
eve is not as narrow a place as you make it out to be. Rote will find plenty of fights, whether or not there are bad players in syndicate.
Speaking of morons, I found a very nice example of an idiot on the WoW EU forums today.
Someone who levelled Skinning to 600 and is clearly motivated and trying to make gold - they're asking for help - but is too stupid to realise the most basic methods, and too stupid to be able to keep the gold that they gained while levelling and doing dailies.
It's reminded me a little of this example from last year, and is a classic example of the really really stupid people who play this game.
Maybe CCP's idea to collapse all space into a single point so large power blocks would ALWAYS beat smaller ones because they can ALWAYS Cyno in their ENTIRE force into ANY battle that goes against them has caused the smaller groups not to want to be beaten on for the bigger ones amusement. This is very, very sad. I feel sad for Jester. No wait, I don't.
That's one of the sad parts of High Sec "declared" warfare and why the "mighty nulls" die in it.
It isn't fleet doctrine.
It isn't coordination.
It's that their Cyno blankie has been taken from them.
"I would think less of myself," is an M&S?
Try hearing it this way: "I'm playing for fun, and that would not be fun for me."
Fun is subjective - which is basically the point of the rest of your post. The only time M&S or any other opinion should matter is when they force it on you, and secondarily only when it prevents them from achieving what they (claim to) want to achieve.
What techniques do the big alliances have against internal factions?
If you had some trust or a solid group of RL friends that you trust within a big alliance, how would you know whether you have "enough" to go rogue successfully? Are there individualist strategies in between perfect loyalty and civil war - for example leaking some information to the opposition for a price, insider trading in the highsec markets based on secret info from your position in the alliance, or requesting additional privileges (e.g. lowered or none rent) from the alliance in exchange for your continued loyalty?
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