Greedy Goblin

Wednesday, October 24, 2012

EVE after 1V-LI2

Supercapitals die every week without making any change in the universe of EVE. The death of a mining titan, Daves Dream, the jump-OH-NO-BRIDGE dozens, the bumped out RA titans and even the 15 -A- supercarriers told no other message than "don't be an idiot". These were all ganks started by someone doing something seriously dumb. All and every one of them could be prevented by utilizing common sense.

The 7 lost SOLAR supercarriers at 1V-LI2 were different. They were sent to battle willingly. They were in a supercap blop, just like the book said. They weren't idiot fitted (OK, he was). They were supported by fifty-something carriers and a huge subcap fleet. They were in a time zone very inconvenient for US and west-EU players while acceptable for their mostly Russian playerbase. There was nothing to stop a decisive victory for SOLAR.

If you remember the screenshots from yesterday, I was in the fleet that turned it upside down. We were camping LGK to let a few of our supers clear up towers, usual business. The FC entertained us by live commentary on the 1V-LI2 battle, yet in just capital phase. When the supers were dropped, silence was asked and in like 15 minutes we were already bridging. 3 midpoints later we arrived with 19 titans and forty-something supercarriers and a whole Navy Apocalypse fleet, massacring SOLAR.

What does that mean? That you don't have to be an idiot to lose supers. You can do everything perfectly and still lose supers and your system if you are not blue to HBC. 1V-LI2 was a power display, a proof that HBC can throw a large supercapital blob supported by the strongest existing subcap doctrine fleet in an inconvenient time at the other end of the galaxy. You can't plan strategy the way you did a week ago. If you are not a blue to HBC, your supercapital fleet is just for ratting and drive-by shooting ratting carriers. You can't field them in a battle where the enemy has reasonable chance tackling them even for a short period of time. That short time can see a cyno go up and a HBC supercap blob arriving. This limits capital activity of non-blue entities to suicide dreads and non-triaged carriers sitting on a station undock.

The "normal" way of "progressing" in null was building supercaps. Both individuals and alliances were busy focusing their resources to supers. This led to a serious form of elitism, if you didn't have at least a carrier, you weren't even considered human being. The term "rifter noobs", used on Goons and TEST was referring not to actual Rifters (I barely see any) but as "subcap pilots". However this was the building point. Goons and TEST had little supercap power but could start to grow using subcap blobs. Subcapitals are hard to hit by capitals and are much cheaper. They can clear tackle fast and tackle supers. Using subcapitals, mostly cheap battlecruisers, Goons and TEST could grow big enough to be accepted as allies by Pandemic Legion, the largest holders of supers. I doubt that PL choose to side with TEST because Rifters are cute. They recognized that TEST has what they don't: a subcap blob that can tackle enemy supers and free their own.

This is the way, the only way front of the other alliances/coalitions. They must give up their elitist "green killboard" attitude and must accept everyone (except troublemakers, awoxers) who are ready to fly even a Rifter on their side. Had SOLAR have a fleet of battlecruisers, they could clear tackle fast enough. Elitism, "ima l33t ur a n00b" trashtalk and "60M SP or GTFO" have died in 1V-LI2. You need a blob of subcaps to do anything in the Sov map from now on.

I hope that the eastern, mostly Russian alliances recognize this and start a recruitment campaign, making null even more accepting to new players. They have time, as HBC and CFC don't have the ability to manage their regions today, so they aren't in a direct danger of invasion. But as the "Rifter noobs" grow up and more people join (in the last 30 days HBC gained 2600 members), more and more regions will be needed. If they remain as AAA, still daydreaming about being elite, one day they'll have nowhere else to live than NPC null.

Blatant self-ad: don't miss tomorrows post, really important findings incoming.

Wednesday morning report: 177.0B (5.5 spent on main accounts, 6.5 spent on Logi/Carrier, 3.2 on Ragnarok, 2.7 on Rorqual, 2.8 on Nyx, 2.8 on Dread, 37.4 sent as gift)


Kontalaa said...

fine read, if you want to know what force PL can field, if its necessary.

Killing a Titan right before Downtime with only 3 Minutes left, when the titan logs is is .. astonishing.

Micah said...

So basically this was Eve's Battle of Agincourt.

Anonymous said...

It may look that way, from your point of view. But you're just one guy, looking at a huge Sea of Information, through the little window on a big ship called TEST.

Take this link for example:
It leads to the Solar Killboard for that fight. Try to analyze it, you will come to new conclusions, and your view might become just a little better.

Word of advice, look for:
-Pilot Numbers
-Ships used
-Destroyed ships
-Destroyed ISK

Gevlon said...

@Anonymous: not really. The losses against SOLAR were suffered by RA. The post wasn't about "SOLAR lost to enemies" it was about "SOLAR lost to HBC". RA being food couldn't surprise anyone.

The various parties facing SOLAR do not form a coalition. Many of our "allys" were de facto red. Their losses are not our losses. HBC did not go to help them, rather to punish SOLAR for teaming up with -A-.

Anonymous said...

@Gevlon: I didnt want to paint the whole picture for you, but sure, here we go:

You wrote "Had SOLAR have a fleet of battlecruisers, they could clear tackle fast enough." but you never looked at an actual battle report, did you?

Solar had 100 BC and 50 BS in that battle, they killed 64 Interdictors and 13 Heavy Interdictors. So both your statements are clearly WRONG.

Also, they were outnumbered 1:2.3 but they killed only 10% less, than their combined enemies.

So if you look at the actual numbers, you can come to the conclusion that SOLAR not only layed out a perfect battle plan. But they succeded to held their own, even with TEST shwowing up and blobbing the hell out of their fight.

But i guess it's hard for you to accept, that these russians are very good at what they do, eh?

Gevlon said...


They can be very good at the game AND still get defeated by HBC. Blobbing >> skill. That's the post is about.

Anonymous said...

So you discovered ganking works on supercapital level, too. What else is new?

Anonymous said...

No, thats exactly my point:

Solar did nearly as good, as their combined enemies, despite the superior forces against them.

And that's the Achilles Heel of the blob: As soon as the line members see, how even stacking the odds won't guarantee victory, morale drops.
So keep on writing your "we won" postings, in the end, that's all what blobbing forces have to keep their machine running.

Goons and theMittani are doing just the same, and the war in the North shows the same results.

Anonymous said...

People have known that blobbing is the way to win nullsec wars for quite some time.

Anonymous said...

"Solar did nearly as good, as their combined enemies, despite the superior forces against them."

Except they lost the system, right? I don't play EVE but it seems to me you're just arguing "oh we killed nearly as many of them despite being outnumbered so our skills are obviously superior!" which is totally beside the point - they lost the battle, they lost the system.

I guess it all comes back to what you enjoy - do you enjoy good fights, or do you enjoy holding systems?