Greedy Goblin

Monday, May 21, 2012

Implants and remaps

In EVE you learn skills in real time, online or not. The amount of points you get depend on your attributes that can be modified by implants and remapping. The question is how far should you go, how much should you sacrifice to advance faster?

At first let me show the numeric values, the chart shows learning time vs implant level for three remaps. The worst means you have zero points in the relevant attributes. The average means 2.666 pt in each attribute (which is impossible as it must be full number, but if we average for various skills, we get that). The best means perfect remap for that skill, 10 pt in its primary and 4 in its secondary. 100% is the time you can get with average remap and +3 implants, something that more or less can be considered baseline:
There is a booster called Cerebral Accelerator, that you can buy for about 200M. It gives +3 to all attributes and stack with implants. You can use it until your 35th day. During this time the implant provides 4.5 pt/minute = 227K skillpoints free. On an average remap (+2.666) and +3 implants, you generate 2040 pt/hour, so you save 4.6 days training. If you just train, that's 4.6/30 = 0.153 PLEX which is around 73M. So you shall factor 130M vs 4.6 days. This item can only be purchased on contracts and when used EVEMon provides incorrect training time predictions.

There can be an extra reason however to use this booster or an implant higher than otherwise optimal: if you sometimes have to train skills that don't fit into your remap. Let me give a simple example: you train with 50K SP/day usually, but a must-be skill comes up for 400K SP that you can only train at 40K/day. You will train that skill for 10 days, losing 100K SP in the process. However if you have a booster/implant that increases your SP/day by 5K (to 55K and 45K), the training time decreases to 8.88 days, decreasing your total SP loss to 88.8K.

This situation is typical when you start a new character and learn Cybernetics first. You obviously can't have the implants that demand high level Cybernetics before you'd learn the skill. Cybernetics 5 is 768K SP and it allows the +5 implants. If you learn it on the normal 3int/3mem remap (1800 pt/hour), that will take 17.78 days. After you'll use +5 implants, your production will be 450pt/hour higher, so you lost 192K pt. If you plug in +3 implants after Cybernetics 1 (2070 pt/hour), you'll be done in 15.45 days, so your loss will be only 66.7K, saving you 126K SP, which clearly worth the 20M investment in terms of PLEX. Using the booster saves you 8K more on the top of the 227K bonus it gives.

What is the price? For implants it's simply ISK. A set of 1 cost about 1M, a set of 2 15M, a set of 3 50M, a set of 4 100M (now as 2 parts of it is in the gift package), and a set of 5 is about 550M. Of course you can lose it by being podded. Also you must dedicate time first. To have +1-3 implants, Cybernetics 1 is enough, but to use +4, you must have it rank 4 which is about 3 days and to have +5 you need rank 5, which take about two more weeks. Since the time gain between 4 and 5 is about 5%, it will take almost a year for this investment to repay. Also, it will make you vulnerable to grief-ganking, as being podded means losing these expensive implants.

For remaps the price is much less obvious: you lose your ability to ad-hoc learn skills. For example I'm now in my P-W remap, learning ships, being unable to learn industrial or trade skills for months.

So the question is before making a change in your attribute is "would I be fine sticking with my skill plan for months?". If the answer is no or even "I don't know", stay with the default remap. With +3 implants the perfect remap would be just 18% faster. With +4 implants, 16%. That's not that much. Of course it means 6/5 days in a month, 65/58 days in a year. It's not something that someone can call "better". So you aren't doing it wrong if you run around in the starter remap. But you should think about the alternative.

I'm an organized guy who is fine with long term plans. While I curse sometimes for my remap, I'm generally fine with it and did not regret having it. My main and trader alts are having just +4 implants though as I couldn't justify the 500M/pilot investment.

My Carrier/Titan alt is obviously in +5 implants, they were easier to get as I am in a 10 Int, 4 Mem remap since day one, learning necessary support skills first. When I finished, I'll do a P-W remap for ship skills. 70 days from now I'll be able to properly fly an Amarr Guardian and I'll start looking for a nullsec home to learn nullsec first hand. My main will remain in highsec forever, trading, maybe helping out now and then with a jump freighter.

Jester wrote a guide about implants, worth reading: part 1, part2.

EVE Business report: Sunday morning 24.2B, (0 PLEX behind for second account, 1.1B spent on carrier/titan alt)
Monday morning 25.0B, (0 PLEX behind for second account, 1.1B spent on carrier/titan alt)
Don't forget to join the goblinworks channel to discuss business ideas with 60-80 fellow traders.


Foo said...

I understand that you take a 'hit' by learning something away from your current primary traits.

However, my understanding from a previous post is that you would like wholesale but don't have retail 5 yet.

It does not take that much longer to learn one or two skills out of your current optimal training set. Not ideal, but the short amount of time lost is not equal to missing out on trading slots, or using an extra 2 remaps.

Anonymous said...

@Foo if you have the extra remaps, most characters dont ;)

remapping is a mixed calculation, making a mapping for a specific set of skills and then only training those might be the most efficient skillpoint wise, but if you want to get somewhere AND play, i'd recommend making a long term skillplan for that, and then pick the remap, if you train for one year in one specific set of skills it in most (not all!) cases puts you in a spot where you cant really make full use of those skills

Alberthus99999 said...

So the best option would be to make several alts, for full specialization on one given set of skills? Or try to make a all around Toon?

I am still learning and researching what you should do and why, in skill wise, to many unknown options yet, for me to choose a final course of action.

But I guess it all depends in what you want to do. I am still undecided in what career I will en devour, so for now I am training all the "necessary" skills.

jonas said...

as for null sec pvp'ers, I pvp in clones with +3's for the skills I'm currently training.
When I can't play for more than 1 day, I jump to high-sec in my +5 clone.

The high-sec clone is always in a T3 and not expensive fit so doesn't attract people when moving around :)

Anonymous said...

Gevlon said, "Since the time gain between 4 and 5 is about 5%, it will take almost a year for this investment to repay. Also, it will make you vulnerable to grief-ganking, as being podded means losing these expensive implants."

No one knows what implants you have.

Gevlon said...

They don't pod you for your implants, they do it for "lulz". You still lose your implants.

Anonymous said...

I don't pod people for "lulz". I pod people for several reasons - to inconvenience them, for kill-board efficiency and most importantly to take them out of the fight so they can't reship and return quickly.

As I live in a wormhole the last point is most important. If you pod out a few people you can change the fight totally. If you pod their scouting chars you can trap them in, forcing them to pay ransom or self-destruct.

I won't pod people in low or high however, I have no interest in farming security status under the current system.

Anonymous said...

Why pod someone? Because I can. Why engage in combat with another person or fleet? Because I can and want to. Might has always made right, and being put into the position where I have point on someone's pod in lowsec makes me the mighty in that situation. That said, if you're in highsec/lowsec, there's no reason you should be podded save by a smart bombing BS or a 3k scan res boat. Witness the :elite pvpers; in FW running around in HG Slaves or Crystal sets. It's not difficult to save your pod.

As far as attribute distrobution goes, early on I went Per/Int for my PVP character. It's not the fastest way of training up say, Minmatar Frigate V as I "only" have an effective +7 vs +9 for a Per/Wil map, but training up the support skills with Int as it's primary attribute I get +7 effective towards it as well.

Anonymous said...

Why pod?

I pod because it removes the player from the field. There is nothing more annoying than taking down several ships, then having them hop straight out again in fresh ships.
Podding sends you back to your home system, which with a bit of luck is quite a long way away.