The Pug update: Omnitron defense system is down too, so we now have 2 (+Algaloth) boss scalps:
Wowprogress says it is enough for the world position 13017. If we assume 20 raiders/guild and 4M people who bought Cataclysm, we are way in top 10%. If you want raiding, but your current "freindly heplfull" guild have problems even in HC Grim batol, or there are simply not enough healers and tanks in your guild, join! After reading the rules of course.
I wrote how terribly Tol Barad is defense-sided. I was wrong. I participated in more successful assaults than defenses in the last days (after the end of 1800 honor times). Tol Barad is still unbalanced, but it's not clear defense-sided, like Arathi would be horde-sided with 4 points, no stables.
"Unbalanced" means that "if two players/teams of equal skill and gear would fight, the one playing with the overpowered side/class would win most of the matches". Tol Barad is completely defense-owned in most realms. It's mostly offense-owned on our realm. This is clear unbalance. But how can the same battleground defense and offense-sided? For long I did not understand this fundamental game design problem. It seems Blizzard developers did not understand it either or they wouldn't make Tol Barad the way they did.
The problem is not that Tol Barad falls into the definition of "unbalanced". The problem is that the above definition is useless. The outcome of a Tol Barad (and a wintergrasp or a zerg vs protoss) battle is highly dependent on player skill/gear despite it is equal for the opponents. It means that if two equally great team would fight for Tol Barad, attacker would always win. Between two crappy teams defense would always win. In Wintergrasp a skilled defender could easily repel an equally skilled attacker, but a bunch of moron defenders would be obliterated by equal morons on the attacker side. A scrub playing zerg can easily zerg an equally useless protoss player, despite on the high-end Starcraft is a perfectly balanced e-sport.
I can give PvE example too: all the high-end players whine that survhunter and unholy DK are overpowered, while elemental shamans, arcane mages and ret paladins are weak. On the other hand if you go to a raid that utterly fails at Algoloth, you find that the damage charts are "owned" by 8K arcanes and rets, while the "op" surv and unholy are below the tank.
The fundamental problem is that the different classes and Tol Barad/WG sides scale differently with player skill (and to a lesser extent, gear). Even a monkey can spam arcane blast and click on barrage if the screen flashes. A really good player can add little difference to the monkey. On the other hand a random M&S playing surv forgets black arrow completely, clips the lock and load, never have energy for explosive as he wasted it on arcane or multi and his pet has no talents. The good player from this is worlds apart.
One must see that the problem is unpatchable:
If Blizzard would simply add a percentage nerf to survhunters to make them equal to arcane mages in hard mode raids, not only the moron, but also the casual survhunters would be significantly below their arcane guildmates.
The class unbalance is inevitable, and the way of unbalance is philosophical choice:
PS: attacker's guide to Tol Barad. The defenders spawn in the middle, equally far from all bases and win even if they hold one base. The attackers on the other hand has a graveyard very close to the bases. The defender must levitate and then ride to the base, it takes about 25 secs, while a defender can join a battle 10 secs after being ressed. It means that the slider does not move if the attacker:defender ratio is around 4:5. Since the attackers have equal people as defenders, if they manage to get 1 v 1 on all bases, they win.
So the key to attacker win is to make every battle very slightly winning. If you are just obliterating the defense, you are just losing the battle, because it means that you have too much people at that base, therefore too little somewhere else. The key to victory is if you attack a base, die 5x and finally when you are starting to win, abandon that base, let your less intelligent teammates finish the job and go to the next base. If you are losing badly, call for reinforcements. If the battle is even or even slightly losing, you are fine. If you are "guarding" a base with several people, you are no better than an AFK-er. Leave just lookouts who either have far sight (shaman, hunter) or can stealth who can count the enemy and call for reinforcements. If you leave significant defenses, the defenders just ignore that base and win on the other ones.

I wrote how terribly Tol Barad is defense-sided. I was wrong. I participated in more successful assaults than defenses in the last days (after the end of 1800 honor times). Tol Barad is still unbalanced, but it's not clear defense-sided, like Arathi would be horde-sided with 4 points, no stables.
"Unbalanced" means that "if two players/teams of equal skill and gear would fight, the one playing with the overpowered side/class would win most of the matches". Tol Barad is completely defense-owned in most realms. It's mostly offense-owned on our realm. This is clear unbalance. But how can the same battleground defense and offense-sided? For long I did not understand this fundamental game design problem. It seems Blizzard developers did not understand it either or they wouldn't make Tol Barad the way they did.
The problem is not that Tol Barad falls into the definition of "unbalanced". The problem is that the above definition is useless. The outcome of a Tol Barad (and a wintergrasp or a zerg vs protoss) battle is highly dependent on player skill/gear despite it is equal for the opponents. It means that if two equally great team would fight for Tol Barad, attacker would always win. Between two crappy teams defense would always win. In Wintergrasp a skilled defender could easily repel an equally skilled attacker, but a bunch of moron defenders would be obliterated by equal morons on the attacker side. A scrub playing zerg can easily zerg an equally useless protoss player, despite on the high-end Starcraft is a perfectly balanced e-sport.
I can give PvE example too: all the high-end players whine that survhunter and unholy DK are overpowered, while elemental shamans, arcane mages and ret paladins are weak. On the other hand if you go to a raid that utterly fails at Algoloth, you find that the damage charts are "owned" by 8K arcanes and rets, while the "op" surv and unholy are below the tank.
The fundamental problem is that the different classes and Tol Barad/WG sides scale differently with player skill (and to a lesser extent, gear). Even a monkey can spam arcane blast and click on barrage if the screen flashes. A really good player can add little difference to the monkey. On the other hand a random M&S playing surv forgets black arrow completely, clips the lock and load, never have energy for explosive as he wasted it on arcane or multi and his pet has no talents. The good player from this is worlds apart.
One must see that the problem is unpatchable:

The class unbalance is inevitable, and the way of unbalance is philosophical choice:
- In a casual/amusement game the class skills are balanced to the median or average strength. So simply the game company gathers data of all PvE group play, for example Blizzard logs DPS of all players in HCs and raids. Then they calculate the average/median and buff/nerf to make sure that they are equal at all classes. The trade-off is that in the HC realm some classes are seriously overpowered, and their power changes significantly in every little patch. The HCs must accept in a casual game that their class can turn into seriously inferior overnight and developers don't give a damn. You can be HC in such a game but have a geared alt army or be prepared that you can be benched for a whole patch.
- In an e-sport, the class skills are balanced to the equal performance of the top players. If one class is underrepresented in the world top 1000, buff it, if overrepresented, nerf it. The price is that at the beginner level, some classes just zerg other classes. You can be a casual in such games, but you must restrict your playing to the simple class or accept to be often obliterated without a chance.
- everything else is a bad game
PS: attacker's guide to Tol Barad. The defenders spawn in the middle, equally far from all bases and win even if they hold one base. The attackers on the other hand has a graveyard very close to the bases. The defender must levitate and then ride to the base, it takes about 25 secs, while a defender can join a battle 10 secs after being ressed. It means that the slider does not move if the attacker:defender ratio is around 4:5. Since the attackers have equal people as defenders, if they manage to get 1 v 1 on all bases, they win.
So the key to attacker win is to make every battle very slightly winning. If you are just obliterating the defense, you are just losing the battle, because it means that you have too much people at that base, therefore too little somewhere else. The key to victory is if you attack a base, die 5x and finally when you are starting to win, abandon that base, let your less intelligent teammates finish the job and go to the next base. If you are losing badly, call for reinforcements. If the battle is even or even slightly losing, you are fine. If you are "guarding" a base with several people, you are no better than an AFK-er. Leave just lookouts who either have far sight (shaman, hunter) or can stealth who can count the enemy and call for reinforcements. If you leave significant defenses, the defenders just ignore that base and win on the other ones.



