Greedy Goblin

Wednesday, November 30, 2011

The PuG aims for 4.3

I will focus on two things in the next patch: The "kill dance from raids" project is kind of "undergeared lite". We will not farm current content bosses but use all other gear available. With this scheme we aim for killing as many bosses as possible. It's hard to give definitive "win or loss" criteria, I'd say getting top 10K on WoWprogress is acceptably good for the first phase of this project (it will fully unfold on 5.0). If we consider 20 raiders/raid (as most raid in 10 format), top 10K would mean top 200K players in the 5M EU-US playerbase, top 4%. That's good enough to raise some attention and get enough good players to go even higher in MoP, where the goal is top 2500 in WoWprogress, meaning top 1% among the players.

The other is the random BG massacre project. I will make it a common, everyday activity, inviting useful /trade randoms too. The aim is to clearly prove that mixing good and bad players (both newbies and M&S) is a very bad design and end in the massacre of the latter. I hope to make this activity popular enough to make it the common way of gearing PvP alts or new PvP-members of guilds for good players. The goal is to make this so prevalent that Blizzard is forced to do something about it, either ending this bad design or trying to break the pre-mades. Due to technical reasons it won't be as easy like they did the infamous WGClean.

Obviously, the guild is open for other activities too and no one is forced in my projects. I will also remain active in rated BGs. Hell, you can even go to your own farm raids and still join my lockout for the progress boss. The goblinish thinking is to save yourself from problems, not the others. If someone goes willingly to a farm raid, who am I to save him from that?


Anonymous said...

Isn't the main purpose of the killing the dance project to prove that it is better for progress and conquer the content to not go on farm raids?
If 9 others who have farmed BiS gear for weeks are allowed to join 1 non-farmer on the last boss this project does not accomplish that goal.
It merely shows that 1 undergeared person who knows how to play can be be partly carried by 9 others.
I'm not in your guild, but I would prefer you would do this project with strict rules like in the past. Makes the reult way more interesting.

Gesh said...

I don't know what do you mean by 'technical reasons', but considering blizzard wrote the game, I doubt it would be really that hard for them to break the addon. And I doubt that they will change the game itself because of you.

Anonymous said...

So you have 2-3 progression nights and the raiders can kill the farmbosses in another raid on another night. Actually 3-4 days.

What do you wanna prove with that?

Also your target with wowprogress 10k... First of all, you cant compare yourself to 5m player's. Compare the project with the active raiding comunity. Else, why dont compare with 7 billion humans on earth. Whether you compare yourself to wow player that dont wanna raid or humans that dont wanna play wow (or cant), makes no differenz.
Only because they dont raid, means you are better than them. I m sure many of the inactive players, are way better then wowprogress 10k.

If you wanna prove anything and wanna get better players, try wowprogress 3k for the start (and thats also easily achievable).

Or just say, that your idea isnt the best progression taktic and just do your project, without the need to prove something.

Anonymous said...

Do you know why most player's dont use the pvp invite addon (this is acutally a addon from the time, where you couldnt play av in a group).
As Good social players, we have better things to do, than cheating other players, for no reward.

What do you get from the random bg's? Honor? Proud that you can pwn random people?

Tell me, why should someone waste his time, on such battle's?
You could easily join the BG with the normal group invite function, but by that way you meet other group invite enemies, which could beat you.

Only arthasdklol would fell superior while bashing randoms.

Gevlon said...

@Anonymous: strict rules would disallow transfered people to join who already killed the first boss twice.

I don't think that farming for gear would be common. This is rather to tolerate exceptions than a rule. The point is to not farm, why would anyone farm and then join us?

Vuuk said...

To be honest I think allowing LFR destroys the point of your "Kill dance from raids!" project.

People can farm that all they want, learning most of the fights and gearing up, and then join the project. They're no longer first kills then, are they? People just farmed outside of "your" raid lockout, so according to your logic "it doesn't count as farming" ?

And everyone knows premades destroy randoms most of the time.

Those that cared about it for gearing up were already using the addon. One more guild using it consistently isn't going to change anything, and people will get bored quick once they're geared.
Those that did it to prove they are more skilled / better at teamwork have moved on to a more realistic challenge (rBGs).

Not sure what you're trying to prove with these new projects, Gevlon.

Anonymous said...

Not to sound pessimistic but:

1. Exodus cleared normal modes in 2.5 hours, which is about 19 minutes per boss. Doesn't look like there are some serious "dance" walls in the raid.

2. As I understand, The Pug didn't farm normal and heroic Firelands for PVE gear, so most players are severely undergeared, when compared to a lot of other guilds.

Makes the PVE competition goal hardly achievable in my opinion.

battleship_azjolnerub said...

Seems Preform AV enabler is broken as of 4.3. I guess that scruppers that idea for the current future

Péter Zoltán said...

Who cares about Exodus or other top guilds' performance? Their clear times are irrelevant when judging the raid design. Such guilds have new tiers on farm by the time it hits live servers.

KhasDylar said...

@Gesh: Do not underestimate the power of addons and the attention their raise at Blizzard. Just as they made WGClean unusable by "dethroning" the WG raid leader. Also remember the AVR-Encounters addon. If you don't know this addon: it draw small circles around fail-zones on your UI, making it trivial even for a blind cow to see the range of these (maybe the best example for that was Rotface). Blizzard deactivated that addon and made it impossible to make any similar addons. They can make the save with AV-Preform. I don't know the technical details who this addon works, but don't really think it would take too much time from Blizzard to disable it - even via a hotfix. Btw how does this addon allow the same group to join a random BG?

As for the post: This won't raise too big attention imho. Although the aim is top 4%, this is still far from anything that "matters" for the great public. What is your goal actually? It's clearly not what you propagate to be.

@Anonymous 07:37
This project does not need such strict rules as the original Undergeared had. Gevlon wrote earlier that he wants to get all welfare gear which is available for players to beat current content, but without farming for the gear which the current top raid instance provides. In my reading this means, in 4.3 it's allowed to have all 5man gear, LFR gear, but no point having normal or heroic Dragon Soul gear (it would probably defeat the said point of the project).

Anonymous said...

"The goblinish thinking is to save yourself from problems, not the others."

You hate random bgs. You don't need to run random bgs as you can get gear much faster from rated bgs.
Yet you invest a lot of time and enegry into your random bg massacres, for what exactly?

I will repeat it once again: your bg massacre project is highly non-goblinish and in fact seems to be driven by social reasons more than anything.

Ben Kennedy said...

I don't get it - you allow farming valor (where there is 397 gear in every slot) but don't want people farming bosses? What does any of this have to do with "killing the dance"?

In this tier, the dances are pretty trivial. Any decently competent group will blow through the first 4 bosses. Then you get to the gear check boss (Ultraxion), which has extremely simple mechanics that can be mastered in a handful of attempts. You will be in an Undergeared-type scenario where you must scheme to get highest performance possible with limited gear, but realistically you will just farm gear from LFR and valor points vendors until you can get the kill. And how does this suggest you "killed the dance"? You just utilized a different method of farming, or were able to get the best out of your gear.

If you want this to be serious, cap ilevel to 378 - no valor gear, no LFR gear. If you can clear heroic modes at 378 gear level, that would be impressive. Slowing clearing dragon soul by farming everything but previously killed bosses just isn't that compelling and doesn't prove what you suppose it does.

Anonymous said...

Seems a little late for the kill the dance project. There really isn't any dancing in dragon soul. There's small amounts of clumping and the forth fight but that's it really.

Squishalot said...

I'm curious at what point of progression you're aiming for with regards to your 10k ranking. For example, H Ragnaros is still under 2k. H Majordomo is already past 10k. If your last achievement was being in the 10k for some normal boss, and other guilds have overtaken you to defeat heroic mode bosses, will you concede that your idea is not working, or will you say that you have not yet failed, on account that Deathwing has not fallen?

Furthermore, are you stopping only at normal, or will you count heroic modes as well?

I think your project suffers from the same lack of specificity that most RL projects suffer from - you don't have clearly measurable targets or outcomes. What you need to specify is that you have 16 targets - to be top 10k kill for each of the 8 bosses in each of normal and heroic modes. Once this has been declared, we can assess your progress towards those goals.